nedrapier – Member

Colours might not have a “meaning”, but they do influence how we think about things presented to us in combination with those.

I was asked what meaning colours have. I gave the answer none. colours do not have a meaning

You accept there is no meaning. even MF has grasped this now I think.

Wahay – look – you have realised the emperor is naked! at least that little bit of him

mastiles_fanylion – Member

“But it is powerful when used in branding because it carries meaning”
which is it? it cannot be both.

I have already explained that above but you choose to only copy PART of what I said to take it out of context. Naughty TJ.

“But it is powerful when used in branding because it carries meaning and it helps identify core values of a product (such as your Ecover washing powder).”

Come off it. You have just accepted a colour has no intrinsic meaning. are you now back to claiming it does?

Might need a bigger on binners

Having cleared up the referent nonsense I think I can answer your question…

FFS guys – what definition of brand do you want me to accept.

is it simply the name of the object?

Or is it the object plus all the other attribute that are not inherent in the object? (edit – molgrips definition)

Or is it the inherent qualities of the object?

… but I may need the use of a metaphor (sorry about that).

A brand is a labelled coathook.

The label can be a name, or a logo/symbol/style/ringtone whatever. Its an identifier. Its job is to be recognised as referring to the particular company, service or product that owns the coathook. When you see/hear the label you look at the coathook.

The hook is somewhere to hang the metaphorical bags, coats and jackets of information you have about that label.

Those bags and coats are not the hook itself, but the hook would be rather pointless without them.

Does that help any?

Of your three offered choices I’m saying it is the first is the truest definition of what a brand is, but it is pointless without the attributes and qualities of the other two (a coathook with no coats is just a hook).

Come off it. You have just accepted a colour has no intrinsic meaning. are you now back to claiming it does?

Dear sweet lord baby jeebus!

I am saying it has meaning when in context – a blue arrow for cold water means EXACTLY the same as a blue logo for a cool box. EXACTLY. It is being used to say ‘THIS IS COLD’. Brrrr!

If you still want to argue that one TJ I really am not going to try to argue it any more because you are either incapable of understanding what I am saying or just arguing for the sake of it.

TJ says he does not respond to these stimulations in the same way as the rest of the animal kingdom, either because he is being difficult for fun, or because he is a robot.

😀

Or can I suggest this test:
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/9.12/aqtest.html

TandemJeremy – Member

nedrapier – Member

Colours might not have a “meaning”, but they do influence how we think about things presented to us in combination with those.

I was asked what meaning colours have. I gave the answer none. colours do not have a meaning

You accept there is no meaning. even MF has grasped this now I think.

Wahay – look – you have realised the emperor is naked! at least that little bit of him

That’s just sloppy language and you know it.

Read “meaning” as “significance”. Colours have significance because the emotional and physiological reactions they tend to produce in people.

No – no help at all.

a coathook with no coats is just a hook

Nope – it remains a coathook. this is the bit you cannot understand. the label is not the object.

a coathook with no coats is just a hook

Nope – it remains a coathook. this is the bit you cannot understand. the label is not the object.

Wow!

Totally backwards and self contradictory, and in such a short sentence! Well into Humpty Dumpty territory here!

That’s just sloppy language and you know it.

Yup – you guys are full of it. 🙂 Loads of really sloppy language that makes a nonsesne of much of your argument.

mastiles_fanylion –

I am saying it has meaning when in context ….

…… you are either incapable of understanding what I am saying or just arguing for the sake of it.

sorry – you are still trying to claim it has intrinsic meaning
#

But it is powerful when used in branding because it carries meaning and it helps identify core values of a product (such as your Ecover washing powder).

In that case you are say that those colours give meaning to the product. They do not.

Blue means cheese and onion to my missues ( walkers crsips)

.

nedrapier – Member

a coathook with no coats is just a hook

Nope – it remains a coathook. this is the bit you cannot understand. the label is not the object.

Wow!

Totally backwards and self contradictory, and in such a short sentence! Well into Humpty Dumpty territory here!

come off it. Is a chair still a chair when no one is sitting on it?

I would have thought that you guys would be good at semantics and rhetoric.

Only if it’s a La-Z-Boy!

On the subject of branding and logos

Nope – it remains a coathook. this is the bit you cannot understand. the label is not the object.

Fk me. 🙄

I rather thought a metaphor would be wasted on you.

Oh well I think that is something like my 14th attempt to explain it to you and apparently I still don’t understand. So perhaps you should explain it to me?

In your opinion is “Nestle” the name of a company or is it the company name???

I’m somewhat uncertain of your distinction and what difference it makes to the argument.

come off it. Is a chair still a chair when no one is sitting on it?

You’re confusing the label and the object.

It is labelled “a chair”, but it is only a chair when someone is sitting in it 😉

come off it. Is a chair still a chair when no one is sitting on it?

Is a hook with a coat on it a coat hook or a normal hook? what about when you take the coat off again? What about a nail in a door? What about a trendy “shabby chic” coathook made to look like a nail? (and sold for an exhorbitant sum by a famous interior design company)

Labels or things?

Colours have significance because the emotional and physiological reactions they tend to produce in people.

Can’t believe you’re still discussing this. The psychological significance of colours has been studied for ages, and a quick Google will reveal a wealth of information. The only person who would claim otherwise is either a liar, or someone whose psychology is so abnormal as to be worth a study of its own.

Guys – my final post. it taken a bit of time to write it so stuff might have crossed. Edit – well nearly -two decent points to answeer

I believe the basic premise here which I repeated a number of times. Branding / marketing and so on have less effect that you guys believe and that a lot of it is bullshit. Alot of the meanings and associations you are convinced are there simply do not exist in the real world.

Your arguments are poor and contradictory and your use of language is poor. Your ability to define your concepts is poor. Hence all the stuff over “brand” where you alter your definition to suit your argument or yuo each are using a different definition – or even Graham who wants 3 mutually exclusive definitions.

such things as the stuff over colour – where MF claimed colours have meaning but when shown that this was bobbins had the grace to accept the the only have meaning in context. they have no meaning of their own

the constant confusion between the object and its label ( again I will apologise for the unclear usage of “referent” – trying to be too clever.) Of the confusion between the colour blue and the word “blue”. Of the confusion between such concepts as meaning and association.

these rhetorical distinctions are important. using literal meanings is important for clarity. having defined and agreed definitions is crucial. I don’t think this has been apparent to you that a lot of the answers I have given has been literal. when the meaning of you r question taken literally is not eh meaning you intend a literal answer confuses.

Now I have been teasing you. thank you for taking it good naturedly on the whole

I hope you can now see some new things tho. That there are people who see the world very differently than you. That to people outside of your shared consensus a lot of what you all accept as true has no validity.

Please do accept my apologies for wasting your time – I hoe its entertained others as much as it has me.

DrJ – Member

Colours have significance because the emotional and physiological reactions they tend to produce in people.

I quite agree and do not deny this – however that is not a meaning. MF claimed colours had meaning

It is labelled “a chair”, but it is only a chair when someone is sitting in it

Waht is it then? what does it become when no one is sitting in it?

An egg?

Guys – my final post.

Thought it was too good to be true …

DrJ – Member
Colours have significance because the emotional and physiological reactions they tend to produce in people.

For the record, I didn’t type that.

Do flowers have meanings, TJ?

And even if you are being semantically difficult [Edit: and, in retrospect, wrong] in order to weedle out of tight spots, Jez, here’s the first page of one hundred and two million google results for “The meaning of colour”

http://www.google.co.uk/#sclient=psy&hl=en&source=hp&q=The+meaning+of+Colours&aq=f&aqi=g5&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=9eb5d417c1166613&biw=671&bih=179

or even Graham who wants 3 mutually exclusive definitions.

They are only mutually exclusive in your head. No one else on the thread seems to be obsessed with whether we are talking about the name of something or something with a name.

your use of language is poor… a lot of the answers I have given has been literal. when the meaning of you r question taken literally is not eh meaning you intend a literal answer confuses.

Now I have been teasing you. thank you for taking it good naturedly on the whole

Mainly you’ve annoyed and exasperated me to the point of giving me ulcers. But it has been good natured.

That there are people who see the world very differently than you.

And those people are wrong. 😀

FFS guys – what definition of brand do you want me to accept.

is it simply the name of the object?

Or is it the object plus all the other attribute that are not inherent in the object? (edit – molgrips definition)

Or is it the inherent qualities of the object?

there really isn’t anything clever about branding and logos..

maybe it requires a bit of an artistic eye and a touch of creative flair but other than that there is absolutely nothing intelligent or scientific about it…
certainly nothing interesting..

just my twopence worth like..

there really isn’t anything clever about branding and logos..

maybe it requires a bit of an artistic eye and a touch of creative flair but other than that there is absolutely nothing intelligent or scientific about it…
certainly nothing interesting..

just my twopence worth like..

And many thanks for sharing that with us.

@TJ – in the words of the country song – “how can I miss you, when you won’t go away?”.

maybe it requires a bit of an artistic eye and a touch of creative flair but other than that there is absolutely nothing intelligent or scientific about it…
certainly nothing interesting..

Rubbish.

I’m going to assume that this is an attempt to reignite the debate, so I’m not going to respond…

Rubbish.

ok.. I’m not going to read through a gazillion posts of pedantic trite.. but I’d like a little more concise and reasonable version if you will allow it..

I’m more open minded than TJ about this.. but as a visual artist I’m still deeply sceptical..

explain if you will why my assertion is ‘rubbish’

I hoe its entertained others as much as it has me.

It has me mate. I bowed out this morning, but I’ve continued to follow. This really has been the highlight of the internet for me this week. I’ve never before laughed, completely by myself in an otherwise empty building, at such absurdity. I do hope I’m not alone.

People saying this thread is pointless and boring are failing to see the humour in it. TJ’s definitive ‘final post’ followed immediately by two more posts just finished me off.

And then:

Do flowers have meanings, TJ?

Literal and full bodied LOL.

just my twopence worth like..

Twopence? You’ll have to do better than that. Admission to the Bullingdon Club would look like a positive bargain compared with this now. Try here.

Splendid thread all round.