Remind me never, ever to discuss anything with you, ever again.

Welcome to Singletrackworld. I’ll show you around sometime 😆

🙃

You can pay someone to do ironying as well if you want

Well, I for one thought that was mildly amusing. 👏

Jesus! This got derailed in a strange way. I’m getting the feeling bridges was once beaten up by a working class housewife or possibly forced to work in a mine.

Best way to avoid cleaning is to have small children. I’m resigned to cleaning in about ten years or so. No point in the interim as it’ll be filthy again in 5,4,3…

Jesus! This got derailed in a strange way. I’m getting the feeling bridges was once beaten up by a working class housewife or possibly forced to work in a mine.

He’s realy a chatacter from that Monty Python sketch with the working class poet whose son wants to become a miner…..

TUNGSTEN CARBIDE DRILLS?!

Aside, if I were still a moderator then right now I’d be trying to work out which Returning Banned bridges was. But I’m not so, eh.

Isn’t it just better to get on with your own life, rather than obsessing over someone who might be someone else or whatever it is you think I’ve done/not done? IE; get a life? Just an idea, like…

Jesus! This got derailed in a strange way. I’m getting the feeling bridges was once beaten up by a working class housewife or possibly forced to work in a mine.

Actually, my mum was a home help for a good few years when I was growing up, which involved lots of cleaning of elderly and vulnerable people’s houses. I’ve done cleaning jobs. Cleaning work is often seen as ‘lowly’, and menial, not least because it’s mainly done by women. How many of the men on here would be happy working for £10/12 an hour, for example? Exactly. It’s not work that is valued nearly as highly enough in our society, when it’s importance is much greater than a vast number of other types of work. Cleaners have been hit so hard by CV, and many are already on very tight margins as it is. And many, especially in London at least, are migrants, so often aren’t entitled to any income support or other benefits. So even if you aren’t posh, employing someone to do some professional cleaning right now, would be showing working class solidarity.

Tidying != Cleaning. Took me 40 years to realise this.

Tidying != Cleaning. Took me 40 years to realise this.

‘zactly.

We get a cleaner in for 3 hours every couple of weeks. she’s here now. We make sure the house is tidy before she comes, otherwise we’re paying her to move stuff around, rather than clean.

One of the biggest causes of arguments in our house was cleaning and tidying and our different ideas about when it was necessary and what the priorities were. Worth paying the money just to get the arguments out of the way; having a lovely, clean house is a bonus!

Re: previous page’s argument: some jobs you like, some jobs you don’t. I like working on my bike, servicing suspension, building wheels, working in the garden. Would much rather do them myself than pay someone else to (unless, for instance fitwheels can build and deliver cheaper than I can get the bits for)

Some jobs I don’t really care about and don’t get much satisfaction from, and/or I’m not interested enough to get good at them – time constraints means there’s less time for the jobs I enjoy more, and the things that are actually fun, like playing with my kids and riding bikes. For me, I’ll gladly pay someone to pack before moving house, clean, paint – I think I’ll be paying someone to decorate next time we’re dong that. Servicing my car.

No need to value-judge anyone because they enjoy different jobs to you. Cooking, gardening, car/motorbike/bicycle mechanics, painting, furniture renovation, ironing, polishing shoes, – one man’s ball-ache is another man’s meditation, enthusiasm, craft, hobby, pride.

Well, I for one thought that was mildly amusing. 👏

Thank-you, I try. I need recognition every now and again.

I’ve not classified myself as anything.
I have referred to my background and that of my parents and their generation.

My Mum had a cleaner as both her and my Dad worked full-time. We’d call ourselves working class but I’m pretty sure you’d refer to us as (upper) middle class.

Do you have gnomes?

So even if you aren’t posh, employing someone to do some professional cleaning right now, would be showing working class solidarity.

It would also require spare income that could otherwise be spent on bicycles! If we’re playing working class parent trumps my step father was a miner, father a bricklayer. Both fond of drinking and prone to a spot of violence. My mum was a housewife. Feel like I should win some sort of working class bingo award.

I once stole some gnomes. Does that put me in some sort of upper working class demographic?

Three pages in and the elephant in hi-viz in the room has not been addressed?

TELL ME ABOUT THE HOT CLEANERS

Having worked as a cleaner on a camp site doing 20 mobile homes in a day on a mid-season change-over weekend I learned a lot about cleaning and people’s habits. I sometimes had to go into a mobile home mid-stay to fix a water heater, replace a bulb, replace something broken and soon realised that some people don’t need cleaners. They just clean up as they go along.

They wash up while things are cooking, they wipe down the shower when they finish, take their shoes off when they go in, leave the bog in the state it was when they walked in etc. At the end of the week it took 15mins to ready it for the next clients.

Then there are the people who need cleaners. They’re in about three days before they block the kitchen sink with grease and the bathroom sink with hair. Just walking around is tricky because they’ve put nothing away in the cupboards just dumped it around the place. Everything is plasterd in sand and there’s candle wax stuck in various odd places. Later in the week you carry one too drunk to walk home but his missus doesn’t want him because he’s been shagging the neighbour.

After that Summer when I learn able-bodied people under 80 have a cleaner I can’t stop myself dropping them a couple of places in the social order. Put those lazy slob 20 somethings to work, Cougar. At that age there must be some way of blackmailing them.

Edit to add: the vast majority of the clients lived clean and left the places clean. It was only the lack of a Hoover and some cleaning products that meant they didn’t leave it as they found it.

+1 for the sentiment…

Put those lazy slob 20 somethings to work, Cougar. At that age there must be some way of blackmailing them.

But Cougar has inherited them so the biggest problem will be their mother – and good luck with making any progress there!

After that Summer when I learn able-bodied people under 80 have a cleaner I can’t stop myself dropping them a couple of places in the social order.

Wow, never quite expected that

We would always keep a holiday place clean but we have a cleaner at home.  I never shag the neighbour

When I learn able-bodied people under 80 don’t have a cleaner I can’t stop myself dropping them a couple of places in the social order as they are obviously feckless buggers who don’t do a hard days work and can thus flounce around dusting. They probably shag their neighbours as well.

I never shag the neighbour

What about the cleaner?

Just got to this thread… I think I paid about 20 quid for a couple of hours cleaning a week when I was still in the U.K. (near Cambridge). Cleaner was local (just down the road from my old house in the same village) and was used by other people I knew in the village.

She was ace. Best 20 quid I could have spent in a week with two dogs in the house. As much as I did try to clean up after them and keep the place tidy, she took it to another level. Getting back from work on a Friday evening was like stepping into a [poorly styled] show home. She even offered to do my ironing, but ironing is against my religious beliefs, so I managed to stop that.

When I emigrated the house was still in the process of being sold, she and one of her other cleaners came over and deep cleaned it before the new people collected the keys.

Not so much a cleaner as a rent-a-mum.

ironing is against my religious beliefs, so I managed to stop that.

Adding you to the good list!

Not that I’m judging anyone….

being lazy and no shagging in the same meme, good work

Do you have gnomes?

I think the politically correct term these days is “house elves.”

TELL ME ABOUT THE HOT CLEANERS

Mate of mine bought a house with his cleaner. True story.

Uh, that is, he and his cleaner bought a house together. It wasn’t some sort of barter arrangement.

Put those lazy slob 20 somethings to work, Cougar. At that age there must be some way of blackmailing them.

Ill be honest, it’s difficult and I have no prior experience here. The girl is my other half’s daughter and can basically Do No Wrong, her mum seemingly concluded years ago that it was easier just to tidy up after her. And even she’s now going “I love my daughter, but I can’t wait for them to leave”. The boy by contrast does at least try, he will rinse off plates and has washed up (their dishes) at least once.

On the one hand it’s my / our house, I offered them a place to stay whilst they sorted out their own house purchase; on the other I don’t feel like I have any real jurisdiction here, I’m not her dad and have no desire to become a father figure (they’re too old for that now anyway), and I have no relationship at all with him. I tried telling him to do something once and got back a sarky “yes boss,” I had to bite my lip from replying “damn right I’m the boss, and if you ‘yes boss’ me again and you’re going through the window and if you’re really lucky it’ll be a downstairs one you cheeky little ****er.” It feels at times a bit like being in student accommodation, which isn’t exactly what I anticipated when I was buying a house together with my shiny new girlfriend.

Couger, I think you need to watch “Meet the parents” a few times, then adapt your behaviour a little.

In your situation I don’t think I’d last a week, Cougar, so congratulations if you’ve survived longer than that. I can see your leverage is no better than your teeth for opening a beer bottle. You’re as liklely to get a big dentistry bill as open the bottle. It’s not as if you’ve set limits through their lives either so they’ll test to see how far they can go.

On the carrot side. You’re a really helpful kind of guy so I bet you’re doing all sorts of stuff for them. They must be aware of this and asking for a bit of give and take and help around the house with things they benefit from would be seen as reasonable I’d hope.

on the stick side, and only if your girfriend in onboard:

Don’t do their washing, they’ll end up stinking and kids are really sensitive about how they smell. Switch off the wi-fi and cancel their phone contracts. Feed them stuff they hate, you know, really healthy food with zero sugar and nothing processed – it’ll do you good too – it’s easy, don’t buy anything they like to eat when shopping. Turn off the water heater before you have a long shower. No pocket money that isn’t merited. Just do it in good humour, a sort of game and see if they get the message. No point persisting if it fails.

I’m not claiming to have been an amazing parent, my contributions to threads on the darker side of parenting are proof of that. There has to be some code of acceptable behaviour in any household or someone is going to end up very unhappy and a pattern of anti-social behaviour will become normalised, and a handicap in the kids’ future relationships. You are obviously aware of one point, without your girlfriend’s approval and support you’ll get nowhere, if you don’t get any support it’ll confirm your position in the family hierarchy and affections – between the dog and the hampster 😉 Aware of this I always refused the purchase of pets.

Being some kind of pocket dictator won’t work but letting them do whatever they want won’t either, kids need limits. Things like the “yes boss” quip are great, it’s gentle provocation and can lead to verbal sparing that establishes what the rules/limits are. They do this all day in school with their mates and teachers, they’re good at it, they know just how far to go without getting a detention or their parents called into school.

As I said, I doubt I’d have lasted a week, so don’t take my suggestions too seriously.

Thank you.

Again, 20-somethings, not kids. They buy their own food, have their own phone contracts, have jobs both rather than pocket money. I have no influence or control here.

The girl I often verbally spar with and that’s actually kinda ‘bonding,’ she’s as big of a gobby shithouse as I am and it actually works out quite well. The boy, eh… shall we say isn’t all that academic, and I don’t want to antagonise him too much cos he is actually doing things like their laundry.

And I really don’t think they’re “pushing the envelope” so much as, well, just a bit crap. This isn’t an act of rebellion, rather they’ve never known any reason to be any different.

congratulations if you’ve survived longer than that. I can see your leverage is no better than your teeth for opening a beer bottle

Six months. I can however open bottles with my teeth.

asking for a bit of give and take and help around the house with things they benefit from would be seen as reasonable I’d hope.

I… I think this is part of the problem, they probably would but I don’t know how to ask without it being confrontational. So I don’t say anything until I hit the point of WILL YOU JUST F… and then I’m the bad guy and have lost the moral high ground.

Things like the “yes boss” quip are great, it’s gentle provocation and can lead to verbal sparing that establishes what the rules/limits are.

Honestly, I so very nearly lamped him for that one. I don’t think he was pushing boundaries, rather I think it was a failure to recognise that he was in someone else’s home, it was early on. And I do understand, it all must be terrifically difficult in itself, they’ve been dealt a shitty deck. But he could appreciate what we’re providing to them rather than be **** about it. Makes me question why I bother.

How did “that” slip through the word filter?
I like it.
Edit ..it didn’t.

I reported myself.

Makes me question why I bother.

Because living with other people however **** irritating they are is one step up from living a hermit’s life in a metaphorical cave half way up a mountain. I’ve had the luxury of being able to naff off up to a real concrete box half way up a mountain when I’ve felt things were getting unreasonable but I’ve always come back down again.

There are at least three French films about older kids living at home or returning home to live with their parents. It’s a common thing here, sometimes with their partners. Tanguy is the most famous and entered the language:

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ph%C3%A9nom%C3%A8ne_Tanguy

The situation makes great comedy because people can relate to it, especially parents. But things that make great comedy often make for stressful lives in reality.

Edit: apparently Tanguy roughly translates as “paracite single”.

I reported myself.

We will be expecting you at the STW Towers internment / re-education camp no later than 5pm for your mandatory 3 week stay.

Are you kidding? It’s bad enough here with these buggers.

I tried telling him to do something once and got back a sarky “yes boss,”

The boy by contrast does at least try, he will rinse off plates and has washed up (their dishes) at least once.

That “yes boss” comment could have been an opportunity for some sensible dialogue even if it was meant in a different way and of course you needn’t have taken it that way.

Re your second quote, do you treat him as an adult? What would he say if you asked him? Just because he may act like a child doesn’t mean that you have to treat him that way, if that’s what you do.

Perhaps try a different approach to the situation ie man to man and especially getting him to open up via some pertinent q’s. Appeal to his better nature. How do you think he really feels about having to move in with you and your gf? Is he cross with himself or the world? Or angry? Does he feel that he’s let his gf down?

Is he cross with himself or the world? Or angry?

Slighly off topic but this does seem to be the default for a large chunk of the population certainly when driving…..

That “yes boss” comment could have been an opportunity for some sensible dialogue even if it was meant in a different way and of course you needn’t have taken it that way.

Pass. I walked away before saying something I probably wouldn’t have regretted.

Re your second quote, do you treat him as an adult? What would he say if you asked him? Just because he may act like a child doesn’t mean that you have to treat him that way, if that’s what you do.

If anything it’s the opposite. I haven’t seen them grow up, I’ve never known them as children, as far as I’m concerned they’re grown adults. So when they don’t behave as such I get cognitive dissonance before catching myself, “WHAT THE FRANK IS WRONG WITH YOU? Oh, you’re 22, right, of course.”

How do you think he really feels about having to move in with you and your gf?

Yeah. This is very insightful and something I really struggle with, it’s catastrophic empathy failure on my part.

I know it’s shit for them, I know they’re gutted that their initial house purchase fell through, I know that likely the last thing they want to be doing is moving back in with her mother and the boyfriend they both barely know but inside I’m going “BY CHRIST IF YOU DON’T PUT YOUR SHOES ON THE GODDAMN SHOE RACK RATHER THAN VAGUELY NEAR IT I SWEAR I WILL ****ING END YOU HOW HARD CAN THIS BE?!1!!!1?🤯🤪”

So. Cleaners, then? (-:

Glad you responded footflaps cos I’ve just re-read my post and it comes across as preachy which was most definitely not the intention. No offence intended Cougar and hope that it can be amicably resolved in time.

Yes footflaps and does seem worse than usual.

it comes across as preachy

Not even remotely, from where I’m sitting.

Is it just me with the problem? Probably. But that doesn’t make it any easier to deal with.