i'm not religious in any sense. i believe in myself and those around me, not some story of some baby being born ~2000 years ago. i never go to church (not entirely true as i went yesterday to a catholic funeral (really **** depressing affair, not a single word said about the departed – just yadda yadda yadda "god" yadda yadda yadda)). easter passes me by and i couldn't tell you what any of the religious holidays mean. i don't think i'm any different from the majority of people.

yet, how many of us spend silly amounts on presents, decorate the tree and get all excited about christmas?

who goes to church to thank god (!?) for the gift he gave us that is jesus? going by how most people conduct themselves in december christmas has got ****-all to do with the church and has become as institution in its own right.

who gets fecked off with being told to be happy and cheerful "beacuse it's christmas"? i do. why should i smile just beacuse we're coming up to 25 december? the only reason i can think of is that the days are going to be getting longer for the next six months (any connection there to the pagan festival of the winter solstice??)

why should i spend money NOW and give people stuff that they neither need nor care for? the cynic inside me might say that it is a conspiracy and that the shops want us to spend money. the rational half of my brain may well say that the cynic is right. i'd rather give someone something that they need when they need it or when YOU feel like giving?

and if i try and cop out of the whole christmas thing people (my mother included) denounce me as being a miserable shit. i'm not miserable for 11 1/2 months of the year. in fact i'm generally a happy soul. what gets me down is the people's blind devotion to the institution that is christmas.

i'm off now to be 'nice' and convivial to those around me. it's my duty. (is it fu…….)

I don't care about religion either and I know it is hypocritical of me to celebrate Christmas but I enjoy it simply because it means all the family get together and we can all have a bit of time away from everyday stresses and get a bit of reflection time in.

hi alpin, Merry Christmas.

( you miserable sh*t )

and a happy new year too.

Are you not allowed to smoke your special cigarettes at home ?

no. no special ciggies to smoke. plenty of Silk Cut Ultras though, but they're ok because they're taxable, right?

i'd rather get together with the family sometime in summer. i can go outside in the garden then…

thanks grynch (throws snowball).

television…. mostly sh!t, isn't it…..?

christmas: is it con? yes it is……

F*** off back to Germany then. Miserable sod.

Edit: Although I will concede you have a point about TV.

for me this bit I try to keep true.. yes I buy gifts but I do try to remember what I feel to be the truth of Christmas … the birth of Christ. ( and yes that will lead to a whole 'nother range of arguments )

"Then the Grinch thought of something he hadn't before!

"Maybe Christmas," he thought, "doesn't come from a store.

"Maybe Christmas…perhaps…means a little bit more!"

Coyote – Member

F*** off back to Germany then. Miserable sod.

i will do soon, but i'm no different there TBH. just this enforced 'fun' i/we are supposed to be having; that is what pisses me off.

Dont mind it it for the fact its a holiday and you see people you aint seen for a while, but the whole spend spend spend thing annoys me.

on the whole i agree with you, its a load of shite.

Yeh, I mean why cant these people learn to have fun for the rest of the year too?

i'd rather get together with the family sometime in summer. i can go outside in the garden then…

But at Christmas everyone else has the time and inclination to kick back and relax. Get together in the summer and everyone has a thousand stresses. Just get a bottle of Port, some Quality Streets and relax…

I like christmas more than you dirty b@stard smokers 😀

S.A.D

😉

mastiles_fanylion – Member

i'd rather get together with the family sometime in summer. i can go outside in the garden then…

But at Christmas everyone else has the time and inclination to kick back and relax. Get together in the summer and everyone has a thousand stresses. Just get a bottle of Port, some Quality Streets and relax…

yup, but i can go off into the garden and leave everyone else indoors (or vice versa – weather depending).

it's not seasonal depression. i quite like the cold. short days piss me off a bit though. would just rather we didn't have the whole Mass-of-Christ thing. no, that's wrong. have it, but believe in it if you're doing it. don't do it just because it's what society/family expects of you.

I could happily give up all the gifts and what have you. I have no objection to the celebration and family time but hate the spend-fest and endless associated marketing. However in our commercially minded society every celebration seems to involve spending money on something or other. Hum-bug, say I!

my guess is they would be happy if you did that.

don't do it just because it's what society/family expects of you.

I do it because I want to, not because I have to.

christmas is for the kids pure and simple, its a magical for them, i remember it was for me. As you get older it means less. What i object to are some of the adverts on tv especially the charity ones 'spare a thought for a homeless person this christmas' am i only supposed to care at christmas?? I find it deeply offensive for charities to play on the christmas theme.

Thats it, christmas conditions the kids into being consumers

Since when has Christmas been about religion? It's an orgy of excess.

I'm off for another dozen mince pies…

I agree 100% with the OP.

what gets me down is the people's blind devotion to the institution that is christmas.

Aye.

Kids are conditioned all year, there's no escape for them. I've had my lad tell me he wants something without him actually knowing what it is or what it does, such is the power of advertising. But with christmas its all about not knowing whats wrapped up, the sparkly lights etc etc. I'm not gonna criticise christmas for being commercial and consumer orientated when pretty much all of us on the forum are complete bike consumers who dribble regularly at shiny bikes. Nuff said

Yeh Doog your right, i just said it for the sake of it. Saying that, im not too arsed about shiney bike stuff

Maybe you could go back to the shamanic fantastic roots of Christmas, and do a mushroom thing with your family? That would at least provide an interesting talking point for a good few months 😀

http://www.henrymakow.com/the_christmas_tree_and_the_mus.html

Also with the OP on this one.

it's good to to know i'm not alone on this….. cheers guys.

a couple of really good points made…

i'd rather give someone something that they need when they need it or when YOU feel like giving?

in fact i'm generally a happy soul. what gets me down is the people's blind devotion to the institution that is christmas.

Im with you here. spot on. it's become a commercial tak market.

Kev

The presents thing is nice but it's the fact that most people think you should spend a lot on them. On my side of the family we have decided to stop the spend,spend,spend malarkey. Instead we get 2xpeople to buy for and you have a £30 limit for each of them (£20 for pressies and £10 to NSPCC)
It's been a lot easier I tell thee! Only probs is my Mrs side. I probably sound like a tight miserable git but I keep telling her to curb her spending, as she has given up work to look after the baby full time so it's just my wage coming in now. Next year we are deffo not buying for everyone on her side as it's too much. I does like Christmas and I am not religious by anymeans I just like getting together with folk.

I'd agree with previous posts – we shouldn't need to use some festive ritual to force us to be nice to our families.
But then none of you have met my family, and the only way we can endure each others company is through the anticipation/crushing-disappointment cycle of present opening, followed by too much food & drink and then some pointless TV to stem the need for conversation.
And at the end of the day we all say "Thank Christ that's over".

Another qwality thread from alpin 8)

Couldn't agree more but you must have missed my thread "Who's giving the 'C' word a miss this year?" – I got a bit of flak for that!

The only thing I enjoy about this time of year is having a break from work. Plus the weather, means I just stay in and catch up on some reading.
Otherwise its a waste of money, especially for a nation which is already heavily in debt.
BadScrooge

I'm not religious at all, but Christmas is a tradition and a fun gathering with friends and family, and a giving of gifts that give pleasure in my mind. A time when I can relax with family and not worry about work.

I can't imagine wanting to complain about it though, I mean what goes through your head to need to moan about people having fun? Sure moan that it's commercialised. Sure, moan that it's cold etc if you're a big pansy, but why moan about the chance to get together with family?

Some thoughts of Christmas:

*Christianity hijacked the mid-winter festival
-which presumably came about as a way of making people feel better and as a way of praising the gods in a hope of getting the sunlight and good weather back.
It is good to see friends and family who don't live near-by & having a week off at the same time as them.

*Having Xmas rammed down your throat by the media/shops for 3 months is ridiculous. I went to a certain large, mock-Roman shopping centre the other day and it was awful. Literally 1000s of people buying tat. I took refuge in Waterstones.

*Christmas cards -what is that all about in 2009?

*Giving gifts is fine, feeling obliged to spend lots of cash and time in thinking of un-needed/un-wanted gifts is not. As someone with a reasonable job and fairly modest lifestyle, I've got most of the things I need and want, as do most of my friends and family. Anything I would like is far beyond a Christmas present (ie. a house in a nice area with a big garage!).

Let's reduce the gift budget or give money to charity rather than struggle to think of presents for people, ban any mention of Christmas until the 10th of December and admit that it has little to do with Christianity.

*Christmas cards -what is that all about in 2009?

Nicer and more personal than an email.

*Giving gifts is fine, feeling obliged to spend lots of cash and time in thinking of un-needed/un-wanted gifts is not. As someone with a reasonable job and fairly modest lifestyle, I've got most of the things I need and want. Anything I would like is far beyond a Christmas present (ie. a house in a nice area with a big garage!).

Totally agree, but that depends entirely on your family. My family fortunately put more weight on presence, rather than presents. Our presents are small entertaining things generall, or maybe things we might need for a hobby. If it's large we chip in together. But none of this is forced on you by other people, or the media. You have your own brain, people are clearly choosing to do this.

why should i spend money NOW and give people stuff that they neither need nor care for?

Nobody is forcing you to do anything. It's you that is buying in to the whole materialistic / hallmark holiday thing. Christmas is what you want it to be.

For me, it's buying people modest presents (most people I know, work and buy everything they want/need anyway) cos it's fun to give presents, a nice xmas meal and spending quality time with the family. Oh, abnd plenty of booze.

I'll think I'll choose how to celebrate Christmas if you don't mind. If I want to spend lots of money on the kids the Mrs and other members of my family I'll do that, if I want to give money to charity I'll do that too.

But none of this is forced on you by other people, or the media. You have your own brain, people are clearly choosing to do this.

Exactly, and my wife and I don't buy loads for each other, but there is a sort of obligation (not one I have) to match what people buy for you -it's a Xmas arms race.

We've campaigned for 10quid family presents, but siblings and parents are reluctant!

Scroogenomics

I can get much better value and enjoyment when I buy my own second-hand stuff and fix it 😉

in response to the spending loads on presents thing: i've bought the old man and his brother a bottle of my favourite beer each, so 1.10€ in total; my little sister is getting a mug – a big mug for soup which cost 6€; and my mum will receive a three good high-quality german knives plus a sharpening steel costing 92€ (it should have cost more but i swapped the knives over to get the selection i wanted and then to top it off i swapped price tags before going to the counter).

the GF gets nothing. the same goes for her parents and sister. equally so the GF isn't buying me anything and i'm more than happy with that.

as someone said above, you end up buying presents out of an obligation. thankfully the old man thinks the same as i do and will buy himself whatever he needs as and when he needs it. if my mum didn't get something she'd be really upset.

i swapped the knives over to get the selection i wanted and then to top it off i swapped price tags before going to the counter)

Blimey so your a thief not just a miserable bastard.

i swapped the knives over to get the selection i wanted and then to top it off i swapped price tags before going to the counter)

There's objecting to Christmas consumerism and then there's theft….