Unless of course, morality is biological

Indeed. But you will know that biology is by no means a commonly accepted answer to the question of where it is ‘good’ comes from. That is why philosophers – religious and non-religious alike – continue to ask the question.

EDIT: Nice stealth edit, above. However, when you say

Philosophy is dead, long live science.

You do so in the face of the entire intellectual world, which is saying ‘horseshit’. 😉

I’m calling it here: 9 pages.

You do so in the face of the entire intellectual world, which is saying ‘horseshit’.

😀

Pffff. Like I care.

The space in which Philosophers can speculate is getting smaller all the time.

FWIW I’m a Christian and I turn the other cheek and forgive all you Godless heathens.

I don’t think religion should have anything to do with the way a country is run.
Moral values, not Christian values make more sense to me, especially in this age of mixed cultures and dwindling interest in / need for religion.

The space in which Philosophers can speculate is getting smaller all the time.

True but only because we have used their tools to make it so.

the empirical model is a philosophical model that said [observation] it was more useful than pure thought for example.

Have Christians suddenly become a minority in the UK?

Setting aside such complexities, the figures over the 30 years since the BSA survey launched demonstrate a definite increasing trend in the number with no religious affiliation but it’s a trend that has pretty much levelled off in the past 15 years. Additionally, while Church of England affiliation continues to drop the rates of affiliation with Roman Catholicism and ‘Other Christian’ are pretty steady * while non-Christian religious affiliation has shown a slight increase. The point is that ultimately how you interpret these kinds of statistics and what trends you emphasise is likely be highly influenced by your ideological biases and it is thus crucial to be extra careful when you read about some study that supports a conclusion you want to be true. Religious belief is declining in the UK but the rate of non-religious people didn’t almost double in 3 years. That’s just bad reporting and we can’t even tell if it is the fault of the journalist or the study author because there is no actual useful detail on the new study provided in the article.

Despite this, I’m actually inclined to believe that the author of the new study, Stephen Bullivant, is not to blame and that his study just provided the necessary gristle for a pre-prepared sensationalist narrative that is trotted out by journalists covering religion every few years. If that sounds a little too conspiratorial consider this excerpt from the BSA’s report on religion from 2012:

In the run up to the 2011 census, a number of journalists, bloggers and campaigners publicised the disparity between the findings of the 2001 census and the corresponding British Social Attitudes survey. While the census reported that 72 per cent of the British population were Christian and 15 per cent of no religion, in that same year we found 43 per cent to be Christian and 41 per cent to be of no religion. The difference between the two results can be partly explained by question wording, the response options offered and the context in which the questions were asked.

Interesting to compare the COE figures with those of less liberal religions….

The Guardian article is sensationalist, but does anyone think that religion isn’t in decline in the UK? As I said on page 1, the census, the BSA survey and church attendance figures all agree on the direction of travel.

Nah – we have just changed whats on the altars to consumerism, debt and celebrity (sic) – the worship of the new gods is stronger than ever. 😉

Religious belief is declining in the UK

We can split hairs about how fast its declining but the trend is decline as the believer die out and are not replaced by younger folk of faith

I think you’ll find that your phrase “the worship of new gods” in this case is just a strained metaphor.

And yet, we’re not getting any nicer as a nation, are we?

Of course we are. Would people find ‘no blacks no Irish’ signs acceptable nowadays?

Oh, I see.

The worship of new intangibles is as strong as ever – and look at the happiness each bring.

Have to think about that though as debt is very much a tangible thing!!!

Brexit mol? No blacks, no Irish Turks, no Eastern Europeans…..same old xenophobia

Lots of polls show that about 1 in 3 British people are Christians, which seems about right to me. (source)

Of course we are. Would people find ‘no blacks no Irish’ signs acceptable nowadays?

Brexit mol? No blacks, no Irish Turks, no Eastern Europeans…..same old xenophobia[/quote]

But signs aren’t openly placed outside businesses.

True – hidden xenopobia/racism is even more insidious than the overt kind, don’t you think?

Anyway the search for the meaning of life continues – each to their own path. If it is at the altar of consumerism, so be it. I doubt it will be that fulfilling.

Brexit mol? No blacks, no Irish Turks, no Eastern Europeans…..same old xenophobia

Also young people are much more in favour of the EU than older people, they would seem to be more open minded and tolerant. I guess all that happy crappy love-in kids TV they were exposed to works, after all 🙂

True – hidden xenopobia/racism is even more insidious than the overt kind, don’t you think?

Anyway the search for the meaning of life continues – each to their own path. If it is at the altar of consumerism, so be it. I doubt it will be that fulfilling.

You seem to assume that consumerism is the opposite of religion, but I know simple-living atheists and Christians with Aston Martins and iPads. America is much more religious than the UK but equally celebrity/consumer obsessed.

Also young people are much more in favour of the EU than older people, they would seem to be more open minded and tolerant. I guess all that happy crappy love-in kids TV they were exposed to works, after all

They’re also less religious…

My UKIP-liking, exit-voting, Mail-reading father-in-law is an active member of the CofE. I’m a Green party, remain-voting, liberal atheist.

Now I don’t. I simply stated that it is a new god that people appear to prefer worshipping.

But it is true that some fairy tale-peddlars do warn that it might not bring you the happiness that you seek in life. Still what do those evil bastards know eh?

In what way is a consumerism a god?

In what way is a consumerism a god?

Its a thing of worship, dedication and sacrifice….and folk “spend” a lot of Sunday adhering to it….

Will that do?

In what way is a consumerism a god?
Its a thing of worship, dedication and sacrifice….and folk “spend” a lot of Sunday adhering to it….

Will that do?

I pay lip service to consumerism for about half an hour on a Sunday, but I’m not really paying attention. I’ll be more interested for a couple of years if it’ll help my kids get into a shop-sponsored school.

There’s not a lot of dedication or sacrifice involved in religion, for many British Christians these days.

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

Aldi Academy – coming to a town near you. Lunches will be excellent value

There’s not a lot of British Christians these days.

FTFY – you read it in the Guardian.

Shopping is much more fun – INSTANT gratification too thanks to the second part of the new Holy Trinity – DEBT

And Christians are all debt-free?

No – haven’t you seen the trends (see above)? They are on to the NEW TRINITY now – were all at it, isn’t it great?

teamhurtmore – Member

But it is true that some fairy tale-peddlars do warn that it might not bring you the happiness that you seek in life.

Happiness? I thought religion was all about bringing you guilt. Which religion’s 2 main replacements, consumerism and furious masturbation, both deliver in spades. (sometimes at the same time)

Guilt does seem to dominate some NW, very true. I find that very odd personally. I was hoping to catch the Original Sin programme on R4 while driving yesterday but missed it.

My fascination with all the world’s religions – the New Trinty aside – is the extent to which they can lead to real happiness. Are they true guides or mirages? A matter of faith I guess 😉

Out of interest, how furious is “furious”? I am not an active practicer 😉

teamhurtmore – Member

Out of interest, how furious is “furious”?

Do it while thinking about Alex Salmond. That furious.

Ah, “angry” furious as opposed to “rapid” or “energetic” furious? 😉 Who is your Alex Salmond?

Guilt? Is this a CoE / RC thing? Was never really a thing in CoS that I could see.

Interestingly, I’m aware of people who say they don’t believe in God but quite happily believe in angels and communicating with the dead, and such things.

People say the oddest things don’t they?

We can split hairs about how fast its declining but the trend is decline as the believer die out and are not replaced by younger folk of faith

I’m always surprised to see young people at / outside our local Church. I do wonder what on earth they’re doing there, but it takes all sorts I suppose.