Been waiting for them to push something like this out, and anticipating buying a new frame in the new year so this might just be it…

http://www.hongfu-bikes.com/html_products/2015-full-carbon-All-mountain-Frame-309.html

650b, 150mm travel. Will have to check the geo vs what i’m riding but since i’m pretty average all around there shouldn’t be any issues.

Not sure if the geo will come out, but here we go, if not it’s on the mtbr thread:

any ideas what is was designed as? there are a lot of that style shick mount around these days?

All the other chinese frames have been cross country/general trail pretty much. There’s been nothing (which they have called) AM etc.

Also, this is the first non single-pivot frame produced…

any idea on price?

Sorry I meant what have they ripped it off from?

Looks a bit Niner/Santa Cruz/Ibis etc… DW link jobby with the original upper link from their other frames…

I’ve heard $850 for frame no shock. Comes in 2649g for the 17.5″. Not sure whether this includes dropouts though.

My main question would be about what shock to buy, and how to tune it… But I should get that answer once some other people have ridden it first…

No point getting a CCDB with no clue about how it should be set up.

Bit steep @68deg, no?

Not super long either 430mm for medium… hmm…

440mm RC is nothing exciting.

Wonder what size tyre diameter is made for.

BB quite high.

Good seat angle and headtube length.

HTH

Seems quite progressive, but centres may be wrong.
Anti squat looks good until very end of travel, but by that time you’re just hanging on so it doesn’t matter much.

Looks like a big improvement over the previous Chinese carbon full suspension frame, I would be keen to see if they end up making a 29er in this style, perhaps with 130mm travel!

Well my current 26″ 130-150 frame is 69 degrees, so it’s a little slacker than what i’m running. It’s a little shorter in the “O” dimension, but i’ve no idea what the RC would mean as the Ibis Mojo 650b is 5mm shorter…

I’m, at the moment, most worried about the Top Tube/Reach as it’s shorter than i’m on now and I run a relatively long stem…

Edit: Work doesn’t show pics, so if that’s of the rear wheel curve i’ll be checking it out when I get home!!!!

I like this, but I fear Brant is right, a bit steep. Any idea what it would be like with a 160mm fork? Could we persuade them to slacken it out?

So does this mark the end of western engineering and bike manufacturing?

Probably find that the vast majority of carbon bike goods are made in a small number of factories in China/Taiwan.

Think they’re due for release soon, with any luck a few will get bought and give us an idea of what they ride like…

edit: Offset bushings will help with the headangle

Anyone tried one of their HF-FM076? I want a short travel carbon FS frame (26″ of course) and this seems to fit the bill

So does this mark the end of western engineering and bike manufacturing?

If they are prepared to listen to our preferences on geometry this could be a massive two fingers up to the likes of SC charging £2600 for a frame.

…or a life threatening accident just waiting to happen.

I get that most stuff is made there, but not engineered and sold from there too. They are basically stealing ideas and avoiding patents and putting people out of work in the europe and america. It just seems the sort of industry that should be kept alive in the west. Its a little more complicated than buying a cheap bike, it will have long term effects.

I can’t afford brand new bikes either so I just buy second hand western bikes. Bit by bit, if people start buying products from china in the engineering product categories then western jobs will go. It will be quite a swift move to deflation in the UK, lower wages and lower living standards. Ultimately a weaker economy and a weaker state. Then countries like China will have steadily more and more power over the west. This is Communist China remember, look at Hong Kong right now. I may not be popular for saying any of this and it may seem over dramatic. But it is a very likely outcome. Santa Cruz do have some crazy prices, but there are other western brands that are more reasonable. Are import duties paid on any of these goods?

…or a life threatening accident just waiting to happen.

not going to enter that discussion again this week!

@dogmatix

I know what you mean but it sounds very much like the classic ‘foreigners are stealing our jobs’ debate.

stealing ideas and avoiding patents

the Patents don’t apply outside of their area, just like the US horst link patent didn’t apply in Europe, but that didn’t seem to bother anyone over here.

the sort of industry that should be kept alive in the west

why exactly, other than you being from the west? Do other countries not deserve to be able to develop these industries as well?

Niche and bespoke design and manufacture is still very much alive over here do to our current skillset/experience, not because we are inherently any better at it, given time these skills and experience will also be available elsewhere.

it will have long term effects…

Bit by bit, if people start buying products from china in the engineering product categories then western jobs will go

I think you’ll find that’s going to happen either way, and to some degree already is/has.
They have a massive and highly skilled (and currently very cheap) workforce, they’re still learning the design and engineering aspects to some degree, but they are clever, determined, and resourceful, just like people anywhere else in the world.

I think the chances of their design skills improving very quickly, are much higher than the chances of the west developing a massive, skilled workforce to bring manufacturing back this way.

The other way to look at it is the west is still exploiting cheap labour overseas to do our dirty work. Standards are improving but if you’re as ethically motivated as you appear to be about western interests, you should be pretty appalled at some of the conditions overseas that ultimately are to the benefit of the west.

Are import duties paid on any of these goods?

yes, as long as customs are doing their job correctly.

I can’t afford, and will probably never be able to afford, SC/Yeti/Ibis etc.

I’m a big fan of carbon frames, and don’t want to go back to ali, so I either:

Buy second hand, where I’ve little idea of how well someone has taken care of, or how hard someone has ridden, the frame.

Or,

Buy new from one of the chinese factories.

Both have potentials of being problematic, and I’ll have little difference in warranty on them. Plus, I doubt I can get a 12-24 month old SC for the price of a Chinese frame…

Keeping the business in the west is just really about keeping the big men rich.
Read this clicky

So I don’t care where my stuff comes from.

You seem to be happy or resigned to the wests decline. As for the regulation of working conditions abroad, many western companies do insist on better. But then if people like you are buying chinese products direct the chinese companies that side step these conditions will undercut the western companies that pay more for better conditions. So that argument is flawed. I do think china should develop and it is, but unfairly. Its an artificial economy based on oppresion of the population. The chinese government should be legisalating for better working conditions but it doesnt. It uses its population to fuel its ecomony. You are advocating a race to the bottom. Buying chinese products doesnt help the people there that want freedom from a communist system. It strengthens the political system. Its almost impossible for customs to police everything.

Bah, what drives conditons are the demands of the people. It’s too late for china now, its already open, their wages are rising all the time.

The reality is that SC and the like are just ripping us off.

The free market si the capitalists idea. I’m not going to get sucked into believing protectionist bullshit.

Buying chinese products doesnt help the people there that want freedom from a communist system.

Yes it does, it allows them to afford western education, which they bring back which in turn fuels things like the current discontent in HK.

Personally I find it hilarious when I read comments complaining about the far east stealing our jobs as it usually comes from UKIPers and Conservatives who strongly support free markets until it entails browner colored folk earning more money than them.

Well i think you will soon find the western elite will pale in to insignificance compared to the chinese elite. Not caring about where your stuff comes from is about not caring about your future. To think this wont affect you in the next 20 years is crazy. Your self gratifiction now will have ramifications in 20 years time. You wont escape the change. Your job will be at risk. The UK economy is a large ecosystem that you cant escape. To think that you are bucking capitalism by buying from china is completely wrong. You are just fueling an even less regulated less egalitarian regime and you are increasing the chance of them having dominion over you in 30 or 40 years time.

Well i think you will soon find the western elite will pale in to insignificance compared to the chinese elite. Not caring about where your stuff comes from is about not caring about your future. To think this wont affect you in the next 20 years is crazy

Don’t give a shit, I’m just learning Mandarin instead and pursuing a PhD in Hong Kong.

Sooooooooooooo….

Carbon bike frames then…..

Oh thats bollocks, you are just making this shit up based on your own fears. Do you vote UKIP?
My hubby works in engineering, since the recent cost rises in China (mostly due to wages), many of the previous offshored capabilities have now become viable to onshore again back here in the UK, and this trend is rising. Globalization is a good thing, equality for all, otherwise we are just happy to carry on buying tshirts from primark for 99p on the back of some kid getting paid very little.
In reality Hong Fu make more money out of selling to us direct than they do supplying SC and the like, so its better for them. All power to them.

When was the last time SC or any other company gave a moral fig about us the customer? Never. So why should we care about them? As long as its legal and possible we should go to the lowest bidder, and make all the others think again about how they are going to serve us better for our money. Thats what capitalism is all about. Competition.

But then if people like you are buying chinese products direct the chinese companies

Who says I am? I buy things from all over the place, locally and not so locally, but I think you’re deluding yourself if you think that just because you’re not buying direct form China it means you’re somehow not participating.

You seem to be happy or resigned to the wests decline

You are advocating a race to the bottom

I’m really really not.

I’m advocating for growth, opportunity and development regardless of location. Artificially trying to keep specific things in the west is just as a bad. If there is a western demise it is through our own making, not because of China.

The Chinese people will demand better pay, better conditions and better quality of life. It may take some time….but it’s already happening and will only get stronger.

To think this wont affect you in the next 20 years is crazy

Er, I think its you with your head stuck in the sand and not thinking about the future.

That escalated quickly

dogmatix is being dogmatic. I think he is just a troll.

The Chinese people will demand better pay, better conditions and better quality of life. It may take some time….

It’s already happening.

That escalated quickly

indeed, I’m unusually argumentative this week as well, and it just so happens that China seems to be figuring in most of them… hey ho.

lets keep the argument on dogmatix own thread

http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/not-are-they-any-good-but-is-it-ok-to-buy-chinese-products-direct

back on topic…

Carbon bike frames then…..

They’re great! 🙂

Anyone tried one of their HF-FM076? I want a short travel carbon FS frame (26″ of course) and this seems to fit the bill

I’ve looked at these on and off for a few months, can’t find much 1st hand info from users so would be interested if anyone has any?

many of the previous offshored capabilities have now become viable to onshore again back here in the UK

Pretty much happened in most offshore industries that require skilled labour. Software development is slowly but surely going back as the overhead in management plus the increased labour costs just don’t make it as attractive.

I’m really not a troll, I think it is really worth serious consideration. This is what is happening in the real world. I understand wanting other economies to grow but what economies? To separate economies from political influence is foolish. Your not buying from any old economy you are buying from Communist China. The west isnt great, but is hasnt a patch PRC. The wage inflation story is relative. The wages are still way below the west as the communist party has greater control. Western bike companies may exist now. But do you think they will exist in 20 years time. you guys are leading the way on mtb culture. Once joe public see you riding a huwei, they will buy a huwei. I am really not trolling. I am making a real argument. One with many valid points. I want a cheap carbon all mountain frame. But I will wait and buy second hand till i can afford one. My choice I know. But I think a valid one and one better for my children.

well then discuss it on your other thread and let this one get back on topic.

Please accept my apologies dogmatix, I was just havng a cheap shot based on your name, which is a little obvious..

A huwei is what most of us ride right now, it’s just had its price inflated by a middle man.

well then discuss it on your other thread and let this one get back on topic.

+1

Interested to see Brant saying the TT is short on the one in the OP’s link. When I had a 26″ hardtail that was my complaint too, it was very short. I wonder where the majority of their sales are? I can’t see why you’d consistently make bikes a bit short!

Most importantly, are they going to knock 2 degrees (or better still, 3) off that HA? Would be pretty viable if they did. Even more so if they chuck an extra 20mm on the top tube length.

I can’t see why you’d consistently make bikes a bit short!

Worked fine for Santa Cruz for years 😉

Could be worth sizing up then if it doesn’t affect the standover too much

Talking specifically about this frame…

What I have not seen, and I have looked quite a bit, is a picture of it built up. Which is a little worrying.

They’re probably made for the Asian markets, which might suit a shorter TT. Mobile phone manufacturers have models purely for that market so why not?