child benefit

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  • child benefit
  • Women on bbc now full of moral outrage that her benefit is being cut despite family income over 100 000. Struggling to think why it should be a universal benefit. Apparently me and mrs will be able to cheat somehow as we are not married ( if one of us earns over 50k) so its anti family values too according to her
    Anyone actually agree with this poor “squeezed middle” lady?

    Premier Icon Stoner
    Subscriber

    a_a – it’s based on households/joint income, not marriage.
    If you live together you shouldnt be getting it if one of you are over the income threshold

    http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/tools/hicbc/checker.htm

    I know that and you know that but mrs outrage doesnt.

    Premier Icon Stoner
    Subscriber

    ah, sorry.
    brain running on tickover.

    samuri
    Member

    It doesn’t seem fair.
    If I earn over 50k and they stop my wifes child benefit, what is she going to live on?

    She gets most of her needs met when she comes round here!!

    Premier Icon Stoner
    Subscriber

    its pissing my brother off. He’s just over the threshold so he loses it (his wifes income is minimal). But Mrs S and I jointly earn a bit more than him, but get to keep it.

    Cant say Im a big fan of universal benefits anyway, but Im sure they could have worked out a better way of doing it…

    Thats true but lets be honest we earn less than 50k combined and i have no clue how much it is or whats done with it!

    marcus7
    Member

    I passed on my child benefit payments to the nspcc as I felt our income was enough and it was way less than £100k, I’ve now ‘ opted’ out so it stays in the pot, if your income is over £50k imo you should not need it.

    Premier Icon Garry_Lager
    Subscriber

    You still get it over the 50k threshold don’t you, its just subject to taxation?

    Premier Icon postierich
    Subscriber

    Child benefit should be withdrawn from everyone and the money going towards free healthy school meals for everyone with breakfast for anyone that wants it @ Junior/infants .Uniform vouchers given @ the end of every school year to be used @ local shops not friggin Asda/Tescos.

    Rich

    Premier Icon piedi di formaggio
    Subscriber

    You still get it over the 50k threshold don’t you, its just subject to taxation?

    but get to £60,000:00 and it’s completely gone

    bones76
    Member

    £50k a year…i wish!!!

    Premier Icon stumpyjon
    Subscriber

    Universal benefit, a rather weird concept. Should average earners and above be getting it , no. However to lose income you’ve got used to isn’t pleasent, doubly so when you see how much tax and NI you pay each month. Seond the way the current shower has implemented the policy is unfair, unprincipled and sill probably cost more thn it saves.

    Our whole tax system is nuts, treat you individually for tax purposes so they can take as much as possible but then consider you as a couple when it comes to benefits to limit what can be claimed. I’d be a lot happier if they treated those people who are married / in civil partnerships as a ingle entity for both tax and benefit considerations.

    mightymule
    Member

    I wouldn’t contemplate having a child unless I had the resources to raise one – without taking child benefit into consideration. IMO, if you are going to be relying on CB, you shouldn’t be having them.

    Oh, and if your family income is over 100K – WTF are you moaning about!

    Mightmule have you been out in the real world recently?

    My income is just below the threshold and we put all our child benefit in kids savings accounts so in theory if we can save it we don’t need it, however I rationalise it by telling myself its compensating for the Labour/Tory removal of support for higher education.

    I’m slightly Daily Mail about most things but as someone whose family look after themselves, use minimal NHS resources and have never claimed anything, if this is the one thing my 40% tax bracket gives me and I’m investing it in the future then I’m happy to take it.

    Premier Icon iain1775
    Subscriber

    Forced into self assessment tax just to they can claim back £2 child benefit here as my income is (with an essential car allowance and some savings interest etc) just very slightly over £50k
    It’s not the money, like others have said, we don’t really need it but what is annoying me is that I have no choice but to go self assessment or potentially get fined, a hassle I can do without (and didn’t know about as not received any explanation letter)
    Could have been handled so much better

    mightymule
    Member

    Mightmule have you been out in the real world recently?

    Why yes I have, thank you.

    Premier Icon Stoner
    Subscriber

    Oh, and if your family income is over 100K – WTF are you moaning about!

    well you havent been paying attention then 😉

    Premier Icon iainc
    Subscriber

    Its the way it is assessed that is strange :

    Couple A – 2 kids. One parent earns 60k, other earns 10k, household income 70k – benefit is withdrawn

    Couple B – 2 kids. Both parents earn 50k, household income 100k – full benefit is paid

    Can’t see the logic

    superfli
    Member

    stumpyjon wrote:

    Our whole tax system is nuts, treat you individually for tax purposes so they can take as much as possible but then consider you as a couple when it comes to benefits to limit what can be claimed. I’d be a lot happier if they treated those people who are married / in civil partnerships as a ingle entity for both tax and benefit considerations.

    Mate its just the same with car/motorbike insurance. NCB doesnt carry over between vehicles, yet accidents+claims do? WTF? Have your cake and eat it insurance comps! I have 2 m/bikes and a car for my wife which we alternate on insurance. I have 3 different NCBs yet if I crash one, I’m screwed!

    mightymule
    Member

    well you havent been paying attention then

    No, I was too busy fantasising about having a family income of over 100K 😀

    I’m slightly Daily Mail about most things but as someone whose family look after themselves, use minimal NHS resources and have never claimed anything, if this is the one thing my 40% tax bracket gives me and I’m investing it in the future then I’m happy to take it.

    i am sure we are all happy to take it but would we care if it was taken away?

    Premier Icon Stoner
    Subscriber

    or in extremis

    Couple A – 2 kids. One parent earns 60k, other earns nothing, household income 60k – benefit is withdrawn

    iainc – Member
    Its the way it is assessed that is strange :

    Couple A – 2 kids. One parent earns 60k, other earns 10k, household income 70k – benefit is withdrawn

    Couple B – 2 kids. Both parents earn 50k, household income 100k – full benefit is paid

    Can’t see the logic

    Agreed in full!

    Also –

    Cant say Im (sic) a big fan of universal benefits anyway,

    Nor am I. Richard Branson et al receive child benefit regardless, when they clearly don’t need it. Benefits should be paid to those in need, not just to anyone/everyone.

    tonyd
    Member

    We’re getting bitten by this also. I earn very marginally over 50k, we’ve 2 kids (2 and 3), so I’m going to have to self assess and then repay some/all of it depending if I do any overtime all year. The missus stays at home to look after the children because a) we’d prefer it that way and b) she couldn’t earn enough to cover the cost of two in nursery.

    We’re not exactly struggling but life is not cheap and we have to watch what we spend very carefully.

    Friends of ours, both parents working and with a household income of almost £90k and they get to keep the child benefit.

    We can and will do without this money (it’ll be put away either for the kids or to pay the tax bill at year end), and I’d happily give it up if I thought this was being done more fairly. As it is I’m going to be as awkward as I can and will make the feckers work for the money.

    Premier Icon Stoner
    Subscriber

    Like Ben, Stoner Jrs child benefit goes into their CTFs for use when they’re 18.

    We wouldnt miss it as such, but Im not going to start “doing a Starbucks” and give it back because I dont believe in universal benefits. Might just as well boycott ISAs and pension contributions as well….

    gusamc
    Member

    add to the pot self employed, ‘company directors’ etc who will be able to ‘account’ their way around it.

    They deserve a mdeal for this, they’ve come up with a tax system that I think is now so complex that the politicians and civil servants and their army of special advisors and consultants don’t really understand what they have achieved till it’s all to late and somebody has found the loop holes/flaws/dodges after the new law is implemented.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    It’s a silly idea to give it to everyone, and when we were earning more we didn’t claim it. Now we do, but we fall foul of the stupid way it’s set up. My sister’s household probably has the same take-home as me and gets to keep it, I don’t.

    DT78
    Member

    Had an interesting debate about this last night in the pub as wifey’s friend has her child at the nursery the bbc were filming at (no it wasn’t her being interviewed!)

    I definitely think it is unfair when it is based on one income rather than joint income.

    These families with ‘big’ incomes mostly live in expensive areas. So whilst a salary of £50k sounds alot when you are paying £1k per month in childcare, £1400 in rent (on a modest 2 bed) etc…. it doesn’t stretch far hence the moaning.

    Of course they could always quit their whinning a move up north where things are cheaper – if they could get work. But that is easier said than done

    Premier Icon ourmaninthenorth
    Subscriber

    I regard it as a state imposed 2.5k pay cut. So I’ll have to get a better paying job to displace the “loss”.

    b r
    Member

    I’ve now ‘ opted’ out so it stays in the pot

    😯

    What, like that jar you put your spare change in?

    when we were earning more we didn’t claim it. Now we do

    Utter rot, you (or more likely your wife) like most would have claimed it from the birth.

    jonba
    Member

    iainc – Member
    Its the way it is assessed that is strange :

    Couple A – 2 kids. One parent earns 60k, other earns 10k, household income 70k – benefit is withdrawn

    Couple B – 2 kids. Both parents earn 50k, household income 100k – full benefit is paid

    Can’t see the logic

    Cost of implementation. The plan would be to take it away from more but in this case they got lucky as it would be very ineffective.

    stevewhyte
    Member

    I just don’t get why they don’t get rid of all benefits for working folk and just raise the personal allowance another £5k would encourage more people into work and would massively simplify the benefit system and save millions.

    At the same time force everyone to pay tax paye, no income allowed unless this way. It’s easily do able but the Tories don’t want to pay any more than they have to with there wee consultancy jobs and non exec directorship.

    mudshark
    Member

    Well I always thought it was a good universal benefit as it means that we all support those with kids – having kids seems an expensive thing to do and those without them have a lot less in the way of expenses. Maybe CB isn’t the best way of achieving this but as it stands the change is a bad one IMO – many higher earners feel they spend a lot on supporting those that contribute less to society and this benefit, that they feel they pay for, was at least a universal one.

    Those people that earn enough to push them over the lower limit should look at salary sacrifice options – increased pension contributions perhaps.

    My sister doesn’t work and her husband earns less than £20k but they’re planning their 3rd child – only affordable because of the benefits they get. The middle class often say they can’t afford so many kids – for whatever reason.

    I think a useful benefit would be to be able to offset all childcare against tax so that both partners can work if they want so more tax is likely to be paid and also more child care people employed.

    yunki
    Member

    we’ll be lucky as a family to earn that in ten years..

    fire her into space from a cannon

    Premier Icon Stoner
    Subscriber

    the self employed cant be expected to pay tax PAYE. income over a year can be very volatile and even from year to year vary substantially.

    stevewhyte
    Member

    The point is you get rid of all the bs self employed contractors who are ripping the arse out the tax system. It’s the only way to ensure everyone pays tax in a fair and equitable manner. It seems to. Me that everyone who are on paye are the mugs who have no choice.

    Premier Icon bigblackshed
    Subscriber

    Here we go again. I can hear the echoes of TJ and his “well off theory”.

    I agree the way the threshold is calculated is unfair, but to claim that £50k doesn’t stretch very far and people with this level of income have to watch what they spend just shows how out of touch with reality some people are.

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