Has anyone read issue 58 yet ?, the piece about cheeky trails is designed to stimulate discussion, so far nothing ?

Haven't read that far yet 🙁

I've not picked it up yet.

i didn't know it was out. no contents page preview anymore?

still busy oogling Batty on the cover

I got halfway through it but then got distracted by children / bedtime / food etc. It seemed to be saying much of what I already believe; the access laws of England are an arse, based on outdated and outmoded concepts and should be ignored, I ride where I want and try to ride appropriately and sensitively, the herd mentality of people on bikes is not always a good thing, concentration of too many people in one place is not a good idea.

TBH, I didn't need an article, I need a campaign to get behind. And no, I won't be doing it because I'm too busy with other stuff, be it work, family or SingletrAction. However, I'd be happy to help if/where/when I can and so would others within the orgnaisation.

NB: I only read half the article, but hey, it's the internet, the home of half baked, poorly formed and spurious opinion based on some half read, quarter understood information 😉

Wot he said ^ but I'm saving it for my plane journey tomorrow, won't be coming out of the wrapper until I'm sat on the plane.

Have already emailed Dave.

Kinder-style mass trespass anyone?

Not got the mag but I just ride where I like anyway. So far, nobody has ever tried to stop me 🙂

still busy oogling Batty on the cover

same here 😳

Is she engaged? looks like a ring on the left hand

Live in Scotland, and pretty much ride where I feel is suitable.
Have been 'told off' a few times, but tend to just say a cheery hello and keep riding.
Don't have time to educate everyone I meet on the trails, and almost all of them wouldn't listen anyway.

but I just ride where I like anyway

I'd be pretty unhappy if you – or anyone else for that matter – came riding through my back garden without my permission. Why is a farmer's field any different?

(stevemakin, is this the kind of discussion you're after??)

….but I just ride where I like anyway. So far, nobody has ever tried to stop me

And that's half (or even most of) the point isn't it? Whilst technically illegal and there are clearly some instances of problems it isn't really akin to the situation at the time of the Trespass (i.e. there was a greater degree of prohibition and enforecement of it) is it? I don't particularly know as I'm no great student of history.

I agree it'd be great to have proper laws about access but there's not that great a driver behind the need for change when you're not getting thrown off every random parcel of land across the nation. I'm not looking to argue for apathy, just mentioning what I see as a reason for less passion being devoted to the issue.

Look at the BBT, years of snails pace (tedious?) work to achieve their (in the end) positive outcomes. It's all (or a lot) of bureaucratic, process orientated stuff. Doesn't enflame as much passion as a heavy handed keeper turfing you off his Lordships land 😉

BTW I'm not knocking BBT either, I think their work and successes are great 😎

still busy oogling Batty on the cover

same here

Is she engaged? looks like a ring on the left hand

Jesus, I'm hardly going to go all TJ about it but get a life, eh? It's a woman, she looks vaguely alright in the pic, does it really warrant any more attention than that?

Hey ho ;-S

Is she engaged? looks like a ring on the left hand

why chucky, do you think you're in with a chance?

stilltortoise – is your garden worth riding? If so, I'll pop it on my 'to do' list.

Riding through farmers fields? Off the top of my head, theres one farmers field I sometimes ride along the edge of on a footpath. Farmer has seen me multiple times and never chased me, bollocked me, shot at me etc etc.

I think part of it (and my non-Calderdale living mates will back this up) is living where I do in Calderdale. Nobody (riders, landowners, walkers…) seems to give a hoot what and where people ride. I imagine its like Scotland but on a slightly less official basis.

I don't think anyone is advocating riding through anyone's back garden, and to make an argument based on such a superficial example isn't appropriate, IMO. Taking examples to extreme degrees isn't usually constructive or appropriate, or do you not perceive a fundamental difference between the two (gardens / farmland)?

THen again this is the internet "home to reasonable debate" 😉

The argument (as I see it) is to ride any/everywhere but with sensitivity and responsibility. Accepting that it would mean you most likely wouldn't ride through someone's personal, immediate garden where it ran a reasonable risk of interfering with their lives / quality of etc.

There's a big difference between that sort of approach and making your way along a farm track through farmland. I don't think anyone is arguing to ride through the middle of crops etc either.

"riding through my back garden without my permission. Why is a farmer's field any different?"

more of less what Lord Westminster said about his back garden: The Forest of Bowland.

Can you really not see the obvious difference?

It's most odd I was thinking the very same the other day along the lines of what Dave has 'suggested' open access rights for all. It was spurred on by the stupid 1/4 footpath to connect to bridleways up near Windy Ghyle. You can ride it cheeky style or go through the gate to Scotland and ride to the next gate and come back into England and remain legal. 😯

But Steve as you know I'm not Mr organised and haven't emailed him yet, speaking of which I must finish some routes and email them.

Can you really not see the obvious difference?

My comments were meant to spark discussion and they have, but since you ask…

My father-in-law had a farm in the Peak District. It had a footpath running down the drive and across the bottom of his garden to get to a field that dropped into the Manifold valley. Many a time he had to (politely) redirect walkers who could not read a map and strayed into other parts of the farm or his land they should not be in. He never begrudged having a ROW across his land and in fact his young daughter – my now wife – used to sell drinks and home made cakes to passing walkers. However, he did expect people to observe the ROWs.

Far from talking extremes as CheekyMonkey suggested, I think I'm giving a good example of exactly where the lines are blurred.

I think I'm giving a good example of exactly where the lines are blurred.

You are now but you weren't before 😉

However, unless I misunderstand your example, you're talking about a farmer's garden surely? Not what most would consider "farmland" or "fields" in the context of this discussion?

I read the article. It sort of came over to me as a half hearted justification of the author wanting to ride footpaths, rather than a proper campaign. I got the impression of one who sneaks off to ride cheeky cos he wants to but then quoting the Kinder Tresspass which was a much braver act of risk and defiance.

Colin Palmer is an inspiration in this area and has worked and lobbied tirelessly for many years to open access and gain new agreements. My personal view is that individual mountain bikers riding footpaths in a controlled manner do nothing to further the cause. Local campaigns and small victories are the path to opening up wider access..but of course that is too hard, so let's all ride footpaths with a bit of sanctimony and self justification and it will all be ok.

Property is theft.

Proudhon

I'm talking about "other people's land", be it gardens, farmland or fields. I don't think it's down to us to decide what is what. For instance what you call a "farmer's field" could be the paddock that my daughter rides her pony in. Would I want half a dozen MTBers hairing through that field? Probably not (and no I don't have a paddock, pony or daughter).

I've ridden my fair share of cheeky trails too BTW. I think most of us are sensitive enough about it and I'm unconvinced we need a mass trespass to get more access. Convince me.

riding on footpaths is not allowed? oops.

*Awaits SFB & His tribe…*

This is a nimby post.
I live near Calderdale and tensions are rising. This must in part be due to Singletrack mag itself, and its endless hyping of the Calderdale trails. Add in promo videos from the likes of Mojo, Great Rock and Singletrack (all of whom should know better) showing people ripping up Calderdale footpaths and you'll get more and more people riding the latest in-vogue footpaths.
Basically, can all the commercial interests based around Calderdale stop bragging about the footpaths? If you need to make a video to promote your courses/wares/mag then do it on bridleways or trail centres.
Nothing can be done about SFB and his large gang coming down and riding any footpath they choose on a sunny Sunday afternoon, but I guess its not that often and they seem to have stopped posting photos so that's something I guess.

I think the missing part of the equation is respect for the land and other people which is somewhat lacking from a large amount of the population of the UK. We seem to have the mentality of if it is not stuck down nick it, burn it or destroy it.

Living in Sweden you get the impression that the respect part is just as if not more important than the freedom bit. Allmensrätt

Swedes do like sticking to the rules though but when people come to stay they are amazed that there are loads of free camping shelters all supplied with wood. Everybody says that in the UK someone would either nick all the wood or burn it all in one go.

On my dads farm we have some people that come and "camp" on the fields every summer but they are the type that might burn your barns down if you approached them. They are quite happy to leave rubbish all over the place and burn all our fences.

And Drac you are not really serious about going over to Scotland on the way up to Windy Gyle?

And Drac you are not really serious about going over to Scotland on the way up to Windy Gyle?

You know what and where I mean. 😉

Nothing can be done about SFB and his large gang coming down and riding any footpath they choose on a sunny Sunday afternoon

Oi! There are literally hundreds of others doing exactly the same thing. It's a friggin Mecca!

*Awaits SFB & His tribe…*

they would strongly contend being "mine" 🙂 It's closer to the truth to say they put up with me despite my manifold deficiencies! Oh, and thanks for that divine capital "H" :o) I move in very mysterious ways, and often not the ones I intend…

I'd be pretty unhappy if you – or anyone else for that matter – came riding through my back garden without my permission. Why is a farmer's field any different?

Easy – his taxes don't pay for your garden!

Oooh Those lovely slabs. I can remember when it was all moss. Then I think I did go on the Scottish side on my trusty Raleigh Maveric which even though my chain broke all the time seemed to get me a lot further than my current all singing and dancing bike.

Haven't read the article but to me all footpaths are fair game if done in small groups and with respect to walkers.

No problems this weekend on Harter fell down to Nan Bield
and the Footpath between High street and Boredale Hause. plenty of cheery hellos and all party's happy.

down here in the south there is a whole extra issue of private land and digging trails.

That's the spot Geda, yeah it was some slog before the slabs and now add a nice fun climb with some great steps to ride up. The stupid short section is the bit next to the descent to Cocklawfoot Burn. I've still never descended down there yet.

Isn't it that Trail centres have raised the bar a bit from what we expect from our trails? Most bridleways are pretty tame really so it is always tempting to go on a footpath. My entire youth was spent biking on the Cheviots and Simonside which are pretty tame really. After going to a trail centre you see the possibilities and start looking elsewhere or complaining when your local trail is bulldozed flat.

You also need something a bit more technical the better bike you have as for example there is a hill round me off Simonside that was super technical on my first loved but cherished fully ridged mountain bike but a motorway on my Prophet. No wonder we are all looking for for places other than bridleways.

thats why night riding is so much fun – ride where you want without wandering who you are pi$$ing off!

Most bridleways are pretty tame really so it is always tempting to go on a footpath

yes, I see what you mean…

Uselessly ignoring the 'most' part and giving a pointless example of one reasonably rocky BW to further the debate not a jot. Looking forward to you actually joining in the debate Simon rather than pursuing your usual strategy of trying to get an attention seekers response by cherry picking out of context statements and taking the opposite stance. How about it?

No good posting a pic of a BW with some pebbles on it.

And ironically someone walking it with a bike. 😆

I'm guessing they found it tooo gnar. Bet they don't ride on footpaths!