Chapel Gate Open To 4x4s Again…

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  • Chapel Gate Open To 4x4s Again…
  • Premier Icon BadlyWiredDog
    Subscriber

    Apparently the High Court has overturned the experimental Traffic Regulation Order that was introduced after the completion of the repair work on Chapel Gate – it only had three months to run anyway – on the grounds that the precise wording used in the reasons for the order was wrong. Court appeal by the TRF. Hurrah for legalese gobbledygook…

    Anyway, given that the track has been open to walkers and mountain bikes for the last 15 months with negligible obvious erosion being caused, it’ll be interesting to see how quickly the erosion returns – or not – once it’s re-opened to motor vehicles.

    I have to be honest, I’m not a massive fan of motorised off-roading, but the restoration has made Chapel Gate deadly dull with a capital D, so for once, I’m kind in favour of the things…

    And yes I know 4x4s are our spiritual brothers etc… ๐Ÿ˜‰

    thepodge
    Member

    I never understood why they resurfaced it to such a high standard if they expected the ban to stick

    They could easily have done a lesser job

    I’m disappointed the ban was overturned for legalese reasons and not because of good old fashion common sense.

    It just means when they do the Stannage paperwork (since they’ve already concreted in a barrier before the legal go ahead) they’ll just change the wording

    Premier Icon BadlyWiredDog
    Subscriber

    I think the Stanage and Roych TROs would be permanent rather than experimental ones, so the legal stuff would be different. Where’s the barrier then, haven’t been over that side recently.

    Anyway, given that the track has been open to walkers and mountain bikes for the last 15 months with negligible obvious erosion being caused, it’ll be interesting to see how quickly the erosion returns – or not – once it’s re-opened to motor vehicles.

    I suspect a few will just for the sake of driving off road to link up other sections rather than go round the road and it won’t be interesting for them so they may not bother unless there’s other more interesting tracks nearby to link it too?

    I suspect the errosion will be exponential, not much as no one bothers, then as soon as it cuts up a bit they’ll be all over it like a rash and the whole thing will fall appart.

    TBH I really don’t see the point of 4×4’ing, bikes I kinda see the appeal (you can go quickly and see it as traiing for enduro or MX races etc), but 4×4’ing just seems like outdoors sport for the terminaly lazy, it’s not like rally driving in the same way green laneing on bikes is like enduro/MX is it?

    nbt
    Member

    It’s not always about going fast – it’s about the skill required to negotiate obstacles, plus it’s a way for disabled people to get out and about. I can see why they want to do it, I just don’t like the damage they cause which far exceeds that of bikes & walkers

    Sancho
    Member

    Where off road routes have been sanitised, I just go faster, its no fun otherwise.
    so the more tech the trail the safer it is for walkers.

    Like Dalby etc on the fire roads, you can be touching 80 on a lot of sections and walkers etc get showered in gravel as you go past, but then what can you do. we all have a right to be there.

    johnners
    Member

    Like Dalby etc on the fire roads, you can be touching 80 on a lot of sections

    80 on a fireroad eh? That’s amazing.

    thepodge
    Member

    The barrier is at the redmires end, it’s similar to a crash barrier welded to two posts concreted into the ground. As it replaces a huge concrete block, it’s clearly been done as a permanent measure.

    I’d much prefer to ban groups walking four abreast across there all on their iPhones.

    The biggest threat to Stannage is the four car parks surrounding it

    toxicsoks
    Member

    johnners – Member

    Like Dalby etc on the fire roads, you can be touching 80 on a lot of sections

    80 on a fireroad eh? That’s amazing.
    That’ll be kmph, though, not mph.80 mph would be a tad unrealistic…. ๐Ÿ˜‰

    thepodge
    Member

    Even 80k would be pushing it

    mark90
    Member

    Each to their own, everyone should be allowed to enjoy their hobbies and the countryside. Speaking as someone who uses rights of way with most permissible forms; 4×4, quad, trail bike, mtb, even my own two feet sometimes I’ve never seen the need to feel agrieved about other users, except horses. TBH I really don’t see the point of horses ๐Ÿ˜€

    plus it’s a way for disabled people to get out and about.

    This gets said a lot, but I’ve never actualy seen a dissabled person in a 4×4 on Stanage (or anywhere else).

    The stereotype would be middle aged fat blokes in impracticaly large 4×4’s, you know, the kind who park in the dissabled bay at supermarkets, ohhhh wait……………

    Even 80k would be pushing it

    I presumed he was refering to the rally cars at Dalby? That and trolling.

    toxicsoks
    Member

    thepodge – Member
    Even 80k would be pushing it

    Do you think so? ๐Ÿ˜‰ ๐Ÿ˜‰ ๐Ÿ˜‰

    klumpy
    Member

    TBH I really don’t see the point of 4×4’ing, bikes I kinda see the appeal (you can go quickly and see it as traiing for enduro or MX races etc), but 4×4’ing just seems like outdoors sport for the terminaly lazy, it’s not like rally driving in the same way green laneing on bikes is like enduro/MX is it?

    Having done green laning and given up in order to ride MX tracks and enduros, no it ain’t! And the green laners wouldn’t say so either; red socks deliberately use emotive language like “motocross bikes racing on green lanes” and it’s complete rubbish. (TRF says 25mph max.)

    That’s not to say it isn’t tremendously physical and difficult in the right circumstances, but it’s a trialsy kind of fun.

    That’s not to say it isn’t tremendously physical and difficult in the right circumstances, but it’s a trialsy kind of fun.

    I was thinking of the trailsy end of the enduro spectrum.

    Sancho
    Member

    Well my CRF tops out at 80mph and on many sections Ill be revving out in top so yes 80mph
    But it wanst meant as a troll just a statement of what its like on the fire roads.

    Sancho
    Member

    sorry would be a more realistic speed of 70mph with the current gearing

    druidh
    Member

    thisisnotaspoon wrote:

    4×4’ing just seems like outdoors sport for the terminaly lazy,

    Like Antur Stiniog?

    Sancho – Member
    Where off road routes have been sanitised, I just go faster, its no fun otherwise.
    so the more tech the trail the safer it is for walkers.

    Like Dalby etc on the fire roads, you can be touching 80 on a lot of sections and walkers etc get showered in gravel as you go past, but then what can you do. we all have a right to be there.

    But it wanst meant as a troll just a statement of what its like on the fire roads.

    In that case are you in any way supprised when walkers get upset?

    The speed limit in a built up area where there’s pavements segregating vehicles and pedestrians is 30, and you think it’s appropriate doing motorway speeds on singletrack roads with no segregation and low levels of grip? Would you do 80 through a housing estate in the rain?

    dobiejessmo
    Member

    They wont be happy those wrinklies in Great Longstone who jumped all over the place when they saw the ban on Chapel Gate on that TV program.
    That be go its open again.
    Once did 75mph on the Ridgeway on a KTM 200EXC got it into the famous KTM tank slapper.Lets say i nearly fill my boxers ๐Ÿ˜†

    Sancho
    Member

    going flat out on a fire road with good visibility and open going with no people about is not comparable to doing high speed through a built up area.

    but I havent hit anyone and rarely upset anyone, I mainly get people shouting to pull a wheely as I go past which shows how most people are cool with it.

    Premier Icon GavinB
    Subscriber

    Well done Druidh – good trolling. Have you got the point of DH tracks yet? Presume you camp out at Nevis Range and berate all the riders (during summer) and skiers (in winter) for being so lazy as to take a gondola from the car park. No, didn’t think so.

    Anyway, back on topic…

    Has the track been re-opened all the way to the gate at the bottom of Rushup Edge, as that was one of the biggest areas of ‘conflict’ between users. There was obviously a massive amount of damage caused on Chapel Gate, but the track was reasonably wide, whereas on Rushup, I lost count the number of times where either climbing or descending it, the route would be blocked by stuck 4×4.

    ‘One Life. Live it’ Yup, you really are pushing life to the limit there tubby.

    Premier Icon BadlyWiredDog
    Subscriber

    http://www.peakdistrict.gov.uk/news/current-news/disappointment-at-chapel-gate-court-ruling

    .. is the full news release on the PDNPA web site. Not really clear from that, but you have to think it makes little sense for Chapel Gate to be a cul de sac. I passed a lot of 4x4s on the Roych the other week, two of them were heading against the one-way flow, which must have got interesting given that there were seven others heading down towards them.

    Premier Icon GavinB
    Subscriber

    Yup, sounds like it is the full length, and you’re right, it would make little sense to ‘cul de sac’ it.

    I guess the good news is, that the NPA will continue to monitor it, and new damage occurring subsequent to the ban could be used as evidence for a further restrictions.

    Haven’t seen the ruling as yet.

    My understanding is that the legal challenge was on the basis that th “experimental” closure wasn’t an experiment. Hardly surprising it got overturned as it wasn’t even remotely experimental.

    I daresay if the experiment to allow motorbikes into London’s bus lanes was anywhere near as weak it would’ve been legally challenged.

    Whatever ones thoughts on modes of recreation it doesn’t excuse PDNPA’s incompetent use of it’s powers to ban users.

    They had plenty of feedback as to why the ban was unlawful but still chose to impose it. This has resulted in a significant waste of public funds.

    Premier Icon talltom
    Subscriber

    That was always the problem with ETRO’s – easy to slap on but not many people in the respective park authorities with the nouce to back them up. User groups have historically had the time and resources (plenty of retired members) to do land surveys, ‘measure’ rates of erosion, spend days in libraries looking for evidence of historical use and generally play word games with submissions.
    As a multi vehicle user of our outdoor spaces I’d much rather I knew exactly where I can and can’t ride with no vageries about possible tro’s, disputes of land ownership, nimbyism and other snotty users who see my chosen mode of transport as wrong and an invasion of ‘their space’.

    Bit OT but my all time favorite was on a lane near Baildon whilst riding with a small group. Lady on her horse shouted at us for cycling ‘this is a BRIDLEway you know….’ top of her voice and completely red faced – I was that shocked I couldn’t come up with a suitably apt retort for about a mile down the track.

    thepodge
    Member

    I was that shocked I couldn’t come up with a suitably apt retort for about a mile down the track.

    That annoys me more than anything. I always feel like going back to tell them my witty response

    b r
    Member

    That’ll be kmph, though, not mph.80 mph would be a tad unrealistic….

    My old IT465 would do that no problem, although I’d be filling my pants and struggling to keep it ‘aimed’…

    And in a car, its like been on ice, and totally out of control ๐Ÿ™‚

    dobiejessmo
    Member

    Yes its the 3KM Rushup edge down to Chapel Gate.If you read TBM which is a Trailbike mag/Forum theres a fair few riders on there that wish 4X4 are banned too.So it gets difficult.

    Premier Icon bigdean
    Subscriber

    Hmmm not sure about this. So what happens when going down rushup to find a 4×4 stuck? Is it one way, which way? Liked plodding/ pushing up chapplegate the riding down rushup.
    Have they sorted the climb to hollins cross yet, that rutted in the middle cant pedal in the rut (too narrow and deep) and ghe ridges either side too narrow for my skills, i fell off. Have ridden there for while due to boggy ground though things might be better.

    dobiejessmo
    Member

    Alot of the time i have ridden down the rocky track of Rushup edge on Motorbike or Mtb i have seen countless people cycling on the grass by the wall.10 years ago that track was not there.Alot of people dont like rock steps by the look of it ๐Ÿ˜†

    Premier Icon iain1775
    Subscriber

    Off topic but have to comment –

    druidh – Member
    thisisnotaspoon ย ยปย 
    4×4’ing just seems like outdoors sport for the terminaly lazy,
    Like Antur Stiniog?

    Having just done a day at Antur today, I’m in no way a downhiller but it was physically and mentally the hardest day of mountain biking I’ve ever done and I see downhillers with even more respect now
    Ok so it was a 1.2 mile run with only a little peddling but we got about 10-12 runs in (my mate, a downhiller did 19)
    That’s 14miles at way faster than normal xc speed, all spent out of the saddle, pumping,jumping, picking your line and working really really hard, having to think and look ahead and be at 100% concentration all the time takes it out of you quickly when it’s so constant
    It’s not a sport for the lazy!

    I can imagine (proper) green landing in a 4×4 has different but similar mental and physical aspects

    Premier Icon SteveKain
    Subscriber

    you can be touching 80 on a lot of sections and walkers etc get showered in gravel as you go past, but then what can you do.

    Tough one that, but here’s a wild guess: slow down as you pass. You have got brakes, haven’t you?

    Premier Icon SteveKain
    Subscriber

    4x4s are our spiritual brothers

    Not mine.

    Premier Icon crazy-legs
    Subscriber

    Hmmm not sure about this. So what happens when going down rushup to find a 4×4 stuck? Is it one way, which way? Liked plodding/ pushing up chapplegate the riding down rushup.

    It was an advisory one-way heading NW from HERE down into the Roych then continuing NW up to South Head/Mount Famine. Problem was that coming out of Roych heading SE, vehicles were getting up the packed cobbled bit but then ripping massive chunks out of the track further up where it was still eroded and rutted. I saw one guy get stuck there a couple of years ago, he was revving the crap out of it, ripping out huge chunks of trail. Dickhead.

    So by making the 4x4s go down it, it was at least minimising the damage.

    With Chapel Gate now open, it means vehicles don’t have to get onto the track on Rushup, they can get on at the Edale end of Chapel Gate, all the way up that then down the rock steps of Rushup. One of the longest unbroken sections of RUPP/BOAT in the UK which was always the appeal of it in the first place.

    They wont be happy those wrinklies in Great Longstone who jumped all over the place when they saw the ban on Chapel Gate on that TV program.

    Not long after that programme I rode out there on the CX to see what all the fuss was about. Nice ride, took in some of the newly opened railway tunnels on the Monsal Trail then along the trail in question (this one) and my God, what a let down. Honestly, you could get any normal family car along it, it was no more technical or interesting than any average stretch of country road. And I didn’t see any of the local NIMBYs out enjoying the fine countryside as they all claimed in the programme.

    hora
    Member

    4x4s are our spiritual brothers?

    Why?!! All Peaks fans are brothers n sisters ๐Ÿ™‚

    hora
    Member

    Roych should stay closed. A 2ft drop off in the centre of the bridleway is dangerous to most riders. Its not rollable and the chicken run (that everyone takes) is causing wider erosion.

    Its not fair to expect someone new to the area to bust their collarbone etc when they hit that part. Bridleways should be safe for all users. No?

    Anyone who says Im wrong on Roych is obviously a trail God ๐Ÿ˜‰

    Premier Icon crazy-legs
    Subscriber

    Anyone who says Im wrong on Roych is obviously a trail God

    Is that the bit where I overtook you on my cross bike or was that further up?

    ๐Ÿ˜†

    hora
    Member

    Oi further up!

    The bit Im on about isnt rideable. Its either launch your front wheel/manual it.. or OTB

    maxtorque
    Member

    so, you should manual it then? ๐Ÿ˜‰ Sounds like a good excuse to learn some more skilz init…….

    thepodge
    Member

    Roych isn’t a bridalway, if it was, 4×4 shouldn’t be on it.

    But don’t let facts get in the way of a good rant

    banks
    Member

    It’s just about rollable or just clear it. Obviously need a full face and an urge helmet to do so

    hora
    Member

    AND a ‘urge helmet’?

    Is that code for a boner? ๐Ÿ˜‰

    james
    Member

    “has made Chapel Gate deadly dull with a capital D”
    Yep, though it makes for a managable most conditions ascent to cut out the oft boggy legit side of rushop edge and gain a bit more length/effort to give a few more options on the hayfield end

    “why they resurfaced it to such a high standard if they expected the ban to stick”
    My guess was if they just dumped a load of gravel on it, it wouldn’t take too long before the rain/snow melt got it

    “the more tech the trail the safer it is for walkers”
    +1, unless the walkers can’t/won’t walk it, ala chapel gate
    Since they levelled it, when I’ve been on chapel gate walkers I’ve met have still used the muddy high shoulder instead of the repaird track itself

    “A 2ft drop off in the centre of the bridleway is dangerous to most riders. Its not rollable”
    It is?
    granted saddle down and plenty of body movement, but i did it the other week past a 4×4 that decided it couldn’t do it and take the chicken line instead
    “not fair to expect someone new to the area to bust their collarbone etc when they hit that part”
    Fair point. The preceeding section of rock drops/lumpiness ought to give a decent clue as to the level of severity of whats upcoming? Preceeding lumpiness ought to have speeds for those unknowing right down?

    I’ve rolled it, it’s fine.

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