I’m interested in the above, who is waxing their chain and what is your process. Recommended or not? I remember the putoline thread but wondered if things had moved on. Principally it would be for a fair weather road bike but if I invest then would cover the gamut.

Take a look at:

Home

Huge amount of info – he also did a Cycling Tips Nerd Alert podcast, which summarises pretty much everything he says on his site and is worth a listen.

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/nerd-alert-podcast/id1489098732?i=1000554216339

I’ve recently started using Molten Speed Wax and a cheapo slow cooker and it’s been a revelation. just brilliant. The biggest hassle is stripping the factory lube off the new chain after that it’s all pretty low maintenance tbh.

Putoline, on the other hand, sounds smelly and is aimed primarily at off road motorcyclists, but each to their own, MSW is super clean and doesn’t smell of anything much at all.

He reckons btw, that ultrasonic cleaning is mostly a red herring for average cyclists and the small, affordable cleaners aren’t worth using on bike stuff.

I use a cheapo Aldi ultrasonic jewellery cleaner for chains and bearings and it works well. It’s not the same as a pukka lab cleaner but rattles stuff around to disperse grease and oil well enough.

No need to clean the chain when using putoline – it cleans the chain for you and chains do not get gunked up

No need to clean the chain when using putoline – it cleans the chain for you and chains do not get gunked up

You’re applying it over the factory lube then?

no. New chains go on with the factory lube. when that is used up then it gets dunked in putoline.

https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/Chain-Prep-FAQ-Guide.pdf

If you want to seriously clean a waxed chain all you need is a tub and some paraffin, no reason to use an ultrasonic. Plastic tub so you can give it a good shake without smashing it, don’t ask me how I knows. Just throw it in, soak for a few moments, shake, repeat if you want, when it comes out it’ll be clean as a whistle.

And? – thats just a load of conjecture and some of it is provably wrong.

I have only bee doing this for well over a decade. Factory lube is best and only once its worn out is more lube needed – then use putoline. I get such long chain life from this – literally many thousands of miles

I have only bee doing this for well over a decade. Factory lube is best and only once its worn out is more lube needed – then use putoline. I get such long chain life from this – literally many thousands of miles

Australian bloke, above, says that factory lube is actually crap for lubrication and is there primarily to prevent corrosion, something he decided after laboriously wear-testing chains. His take is that completely removing the lube from the chain allows the wax to bond to it effectively. He may be incorrect, but he makes a pretty compelling case for it.

Well he has nothing to back up his conjecture, his language hardly breeds confidence and it gores against what I have found

Wax does not bind to the chain.

Wax does not bind to the chain.

It must stick to it to some extent surely? Or else what use would it be? I don’t really have a horse in this race and I’m not an expert like you, but presumably the wax does stick to the chain a bit? Bond is probably the wrong word, maybe ‘adhere’ would be better?

Have you found the wax to work better after leaving the factory lubricant in place?

Maybe Putoline and Molten Speed Wax etc work slightly differently? I don’t know, just curious.

I don’t buy “factory lube is best” at all tbh, it can be great but there’s some conditions it really struggles with since it’s so sticky. I had a chain glue up on the first ride to the point it bent several links, KMC warrantied it and recommended that I “remove the factory grease and replace it with something more suitable”. Had similar with a SRAM one though without the damage. So for mountain bikes I clean new chains then putoline them and I’ve never had a single bad experience along those lines.

“Bond” has a technical definition but I think he really just meant “stick”, which ime it does work best on a clean dry chain.

Anyway, regardless of all that, I’ve found Australian bloke’s obsessively detailed instructions are working well for me using Molten Speed Wax and a 15-quid slow-cooker from amazon. The initial chain cleaning takes maybe 20 minutes with white spirit followed by IPA. After that it’s dead easy and quick. I think I always assumed (chain) waxing was a hassle, but it’s really not turned out that way.

Well he has nothing to back up his conjecture, his language hardly breeds confidence and it gores against what I have found

To be fair his evidence is more compelling and backed up than yours to date.

His also has a performance factor that you entirely ignore.

I’ve found Putoline to be pretty excellent in reducing wear. Before I used Putoline I wore out an SLX 12 speed chain in about 350 miles and it went from OK to worn very quickly once it started. Subsequent SLX chains with Putoline have done twice that. Fast forward to a video I watched where someone tested an SLX compared to an XTR chain and the lifespan difference outweighed the initial cost in the longer term so I bought M9100 chains and I have done about 1000 miles on each of them (I rotate two chains) and they are still showing between .25 and .50. I have also not needed to replace either of my cassettes which have done about 2500 miles each. I’ve replaced the bearings in my freehub twice in that time!!!

My initial foray into the world of Putoline had me heating it up too much with  smoke being produced. I contacted Putoline and asked what the ideal temp was and they said about 70 to 90 degrees C. They said it shouldn’t smoke as some of the oils would evaporate reducing its effectiveness so now I just switch my cheap deep fat fryer to 120 degrees and pop the chain in the basket and leave it for about 15 minutes giving it the occasional shake about.

Initially also I was leaving too much of it on the outside of the chain and it was just gunking up the jockey wheels and chainring so now I give it a good wipe while it’s hanging up cooling and the drivetrain is generally much cleaner.

I use the Ozzy guys guide. Converted me. No issues with the wax /paraffin mix not sticking. If I’m in a rush I might use some squirt which is basically the same stuff.
I don’t add teflon though. Trying to avoid forever chemicals.

Much the same as Oceanskipper for me. Initially I relied upon a high temperature to ‘clean’ the chain, but now I’d just rather pay the extra for a pre-cleaned chain from inaspin.co.uk and stick to lower temperatures.

Once you’ve switched the fryer off just watch the wax fastidiously and as soon as it looks like it’s about to form a skin, ehisk chain out, wipe as much excess off as possible and leave it to cool on its side so you lose an absolute minimum of wax out of the links (it should be thick enough by this point that you don’t lose any).

I’m hooked on hot waxing just for the performance and durability benefits, still not completely sold on ease of use, am pretty sure I found drip lubes easier and more predictable, even if ‘predictably’ short lived 🙄

Thanks all👍 not many negatives. As for cleaning I have access to a parts washers and various chemicals to ensure a prepped chain. Liking the idea of doing a few and just swapping. It seems that the mini slow cooker also would be a better bet than the frier re temp.

Slow cooker takes too long to heat up. I use a DFF and just set it to 120. Heats up in a few mins.

Slow cooker takes too long to heat up. I use a DFF and just set it to 120. Heats up in a few mins.

I just switch the slow cooker on and get on with my life for an hour, then go back, swish the chain around and hang it up to cool. I like that it only heats to around 95˚C or so max, so you’re not going to accidentally ignite the wax or boil it. I guess if you were in a tearing hurry it might be irksome, but I’ve never found it an issue. Having several chains is a good call too.

I’m waxing but using Squirt…as much as the degreasing, cooking and dripping sounds ‘good’, I’ve got too many other things to do (like breathing)…chain gets put through a chain cleaner every 4 months or so and gets nice and clean, hosed down and allowed to dry off then a good dose of Squirt. Let it dry (overnight) and put a second coat on first thing in morning. It is dry by lunch and good to go. Second coat probably isn’t needed really, but just in case my generous amounts after a degrease didn’t work.

As a clean and long-lasting lubricant, I’m having a great experience with RevoLube.

Just re-read my poor post…I put squirt on every 3 or 4 weeks but I just hose chain in between chain cleaner cleans.

as much as the degreasing, cooking and dripping sounds ‘good’, I’ve got too many other things to do (like breathing)

Not that I’m at all bothered by what you do, your comment struck me as a bit facetious so warrants a response…

Waxing in a DFF takes no longer than your method, in fact I’d say it was more efficient given that your process takes a day and a half!

Yesterday in the time it takes to have a cup of tea, which was still warm when I’d finished, I removed a chain that needed waxing, replaced it with an already waxed one, cleaned and rewaxed the old one and left it all to cool. I know it’s not strictly necessary to clean the used one but I like to get all the road grime off it so that doesn’t end up sitting in my Putoline. And I like to measure it when it’s clean 🤷‍♂️.

im not at all claiming that my method is best, it’s just what I do, posted here for info in case anyone finds it useful.

Yeah been waxing chains for a few years.
Unless it’s really minging out, I prefer homebrew parafin wax, beeswax and blob of grease mix to putoline.

New chains go on without waxing until they run dry, then in the wax.

Cleaning wise, if there is still plenty of wax in the chain I try to avoid washing too vigorously. I’ll just rinse the bike then go over with a bit of gt85 to keep the rust at bay.
If the chain is dirty and running low on wax I tend to power wash the chain when I’m doing the rest of the bike. Allow to dry then dunk in the wax.

Sometimes if it’s really claggy on the chain I will soak in parafin to clean.

I run 2x chains per bike which means less wear and also makes it quick to fit a fresh chain without having to perform the process.

I tend to wax multiple chains in a batch which saves a bit of time.

As above this sounds like a load of faff but it really isn’t.

Folk running the factory lube – don’t you find it gets the chain disgustingly dirty? Like ‘finish line wet’ dirty but stickier? Perhaps it depends on the chain manufacturer.

As for the more/less faff thing, waxing is definitely more faff for me but I’m convicned I get less wear and I love the feel of a freshly waxed chain.

My cleaning/re-waxing routine varies depending on how dirty the chain is. If it’s gopping it get scrubbed with Cif bathroom mousse and rinsed off with boiling water then I put it in the (cold) DFF, switch it on and go and clean the rest of the bike. If it’s not too dirty, it’s left on the bike while I clean it and dumped in the DFF afterwards.

Folk running the factory lube – don’t you find it gets the chain disgustingly dirty? Like ‘finish line wet’ dirty but stickier? Perhaps it depends on the chain manufacturer.

Running the fleet of 60-odd bikes year after year, we tried quite a few options to prolong chain life and cut down maintenance turnaround. We did find that the factory lube was really good but we’d wipe down the outside of each chain with a light solvent before the first outing. That was enough to remove the stickiness without affecting performance.

your comment struck me as a bit facetious so warrants a response…

Was intended to be…for a lot of people the chain gets 10 seconds before going for a ride, other people take a bit longer and others take longer still.

However ‘longer still’ isn’t actually that long…I don’t drink tea but I suspect the time is about the same for a house, soap and hose down of the rest of the bike, so it isn’t actually that long and you can do other stuff as well.

My day and half isn’t that, it is less than a minute but it is done over a longer period of time, so I get other things done during that time.

Whatever works for you…I’m intentionally running my drivetrain into the ground so it all gets replaced at the same time – which is every 3 years, but that works for me but won’t for plenty other folk.

I’m intentionally running my drivetrain into the ground so it all gets replaced at the same time

I’m currently doing this with my Pact. I’m waiting to see what gives up first. Surprisingly, I think it’s going to be the jockey wheels!

You’re applying it over the factory lube then?

Unlike TJ I’ve always just thrown them straight in with the factory grease still on.

It’s not applying the wax over the grease, it’s washing the grease off with the molten wax. Which from a chemistry perspective is no different to washing it off with white spirit.

It must stick to it to some extent surely? Or else what use would it be? I don’t really have a horse in this race and I’m not an expert like you, but presumably the wax does stick to the chain a bit? Bond is probably the wrong word, maybe ‘adhere’ would be better?

From a Tribology standpoint (I love that word, I almost did material engineering just so I could do those modules) it’s complicated. Waxes, oils etc are doing their job by existing between the surfaces keeping them apart. They’re not “binding” to the surfaces except via van-der-walls forces. To make them “bind” you need to do something else.

Then you’ve got PTFE, which is acting like a solid particle of oil/wax. It works by sitting between the layers, but it won’t ever stick to them, it only exists in the carrier oil (or at best physically smushed into the surface, but it’s not binding to it).

Esters will bind to metals, as will sulfur groups as they add polarity. Those are the sorts of things you can add to make oils cling to the parts you want them to.

You can also add things like Molybdenum disulfide which binds very strongly to the metal under pressure. This is forming a chemical bond to the metal parts and forms a low friction layer that’s also sacrificial.

Doesn’t mean any youtuber/website doing some lab testing on different lubes is getting invalid results, it just means they haven’t got a clue what they’re talking about and you should focus on the results and the method they used.

I’ve recently started using Molten Speed Wax and a cheapo slow cooker and it’s been a revelation. just brilliant. The biggest hassle is stripping the factory lube off the new chain after that it’s all pretty low maintenance tbh.

Putoline, on the other hand, sounds smelly and is aimed primarily at off road motorcyclists, but each to their own, MSW is super clean and doesn’t smell of anything much at all.

MSW sounds like a much harder blend of wax? Either it’s a heavier hydrocarbon or putoline are blending oils in with theirs.

Beyond how long either last in your local riding conditions I don’t think that’s particularly important. As long as there’s some wax there either doing the job of a lubricant or just carrying the aditives to the surfaces then either will do a similar job.

your comment struck me as a bit facetious so warrants a response…

Was intended to be…

Why on earth would you do that? Why not just write your opinion without having a dig at someone who’s opinion differs from yours.  I don’t even know you and TBH I’m quite pleased about that! Ironically your comment about better things to do like breathing does apply here. I’ve got better things to do with my time than waste it on you, so I’m outta here!!! 🚵‍♀️

I don’t think of Putoline as ‘sticking’ to the chain, in fact after the first ride on a newly waxed chain I’ll consider all the external surfaces to be effectively bare metal and treat them accordingly e.g. a wipe with an oily rag between rides.

I think using wax requires a slight change in mindset and some (initial) blind faith in the fact that you really don’t need a layer of lubricant on the outer surface of your chain, it’s all about the inner surfaces. Jam them full of wax and you’re golden.

I like Squirt on the summer bike but don’t believe it can ever perform as well as a wax that hasn’t been in emulsion or liquid at room temperature. Once I’ve used up all my Squirt supplies I’m going MSW on the summer bike

What is it about lube/waxing threads that causes such intense disagreements

What is it about lube/waxing threads that causes such intense disagreements

Because some people have studied tribology and understand how lubrication works.
Others just grab hold of the latest flavour of the month or the one with the biggest advertising budget.

Because some people have studied tribology and understand how lubrication works.

Yes, that’ll be it. Like a sort of dumbed down academic debate between those with degree level qualifications in lubrication science and those fake newbie chain-waxing fashionistas funded by the big bucks of the johnny come lately immersive wax business leviathan 🙂

Very few folk are dealing with a large enough sample size to make comparisons possible so they stick with their own anecdotal experience.

Squirt is a classic example. I’ve seen lots of folk recommend it, I was given a free bottle, tried it, and found that I could piss longer-lasting chain lube. I can only surmise that different riding conditions, soil types and lubing strategies come into play but there is no way I can replicate all of those myself.

Even the example I gave above of maintaining a large fleet of bikes over several years, trying out different lubes, can’t take all factors into account.

Geology also plays a part. That has a huge effect on the mud you’re actually exposed to both physically and chemically, and that has a huge effect on what happens to your lube.

Gotta say I’m fairly interested in MSW.

I’ve never understood those who have claimed to wear chains out in 300 miles or whatever. What do you mean? That the chain was **** and so stretched that it was skipping or your chain measuring tool was showing it as worn? Because chain measuring tools are generally a waste of time in my experience, particularly with thinner 11-12 speed chains.

I find my chains last thousands of miles. I am not particularly careful, and have used all kinds of lubes over the years. I haven’t really noticed any drastic difference between brands. I’ve used kmc based on advice here, shimano and sram.

I’ve no idea what the fascination on here is with various magical kinds of lubricants and whatever. People cooking up wax and bathing their chains in various solutions.

Madness.