In March 2012 Tata Stocksbridge announced that it was looking for potential candidates to join its new apprenticeship scheme. The news made the front page of the local paper. The amount of apprenticeships available? Seventeen.

I think last year Scunthorpe works took on about 100 apprentices (of different disciplines – mechanical, electrical and structural), its been around that number for a bit as the lack of apprentices taken on in the 90’s (eg- none) has left a ten year skill gap

It’s probably time to start building the B Ark….

In a classroom you may have 30 bums on seats but the number of kids that are with you can vary from 2 to 30. In some classes you spend 90% of the time policing and 10% of the time teaching, in others the kids walk quietly in, sit down, listen and work – sometimes in the same school.

I taught one group introduced to me as “four car thieves and a prostitute”. I’m not sure who was less interested in their futures, me or them. One thing I was certain of, I wasn’t going to have much influence on it however hard I tried.

What do you do with those who once would have been sent down a mine, or to a shipyard, or cannon fodder on a battlefield

Are you saying they were all thick then (I’m drawing an inference here – tbf, you may not be saying that.)? That some of them weren’t capable of more given the right chances? I’ve met plenty of “thick” eejits with very wealthy parents – I have no doubt they won’t end up struggling while on a minimum wage…somehow.

So the question remains, what do you do with those who are stupid, you can only have so many people picking up litter, cleaning the streets etc.

💡 I know……….teach them how to ride a bike and then get them to spend countless hours posting drivel on a mountain bike forum ?

Hang on a minute……you’re not going to tell me that you need to be clever to ride a bike are you ? 😀

dd, just over simplifying to make a point, there were undoubtably many very bright people who’s talents were wasted. There are also those people who get through life because of their parents and through no natural ability.

Point is that at one time what ever your mental and physical ability there was a way of using you, and giving you a place, whether it was the right one that used all your skills is a different point!

We seem to be giving youngsters the idea that they can all be footballers, WAGs, pop stars etc, or that a degree is all you need to get a good career. The reality is somewhat different, always has been and always will be.

you’re not going to tell me that you need to be clever to ride a bike are you ?

well i thought you had to be IT middle management and driving an Audi to ride a mountain bike these days? Its why i ride a road bike instead…

What do you do with those who once would have been… cannon fodder on a battlefield?

The armed forces enjoy high recruitment numbers of people (mainly young white men) who come from poor/deprived areas. As they are employers who offer a lot more than the average supermarket chain etc. Our governments seem keen to always ensure a need for more troops to fight in various wars they appear to be so fond of becoming involved in. Whilst there is a poorly educated lumpenproletariat, there will be a steady supply of willing cannon fodder, easily coerced into doing the bidding of the ruling elite. Indeed, it’s in the elite’s interests to maintain an ignorant underclass who are malleable and easily brainwashed. Highly educated people are often quite reluctant to take up arms, unsurprisingly.

One thing I was certain of, I wasn’t going to have much influence on it however hard I tried.

Anyone can be taught. You obviously weren’t the right teacher for them.

Anyone can be taught. You obviously weren’t the right teacher for them.

Some people do 20 years in clink and do exactly what put them inside within hours of getting out. And when they get out again they do it again.

You can only teach someone who is willing to learn, and some are very determined not to learn.

The benefit trap makes a lot of people choose not to work as they wouldn’t be financially any better off.
It is hard enough for experienced and qualified people to get jobs at the moment so imagine how much harder it is if you are a bit thick. A minimum wage job is all you can hope for.

Lack of aspiration and work ethic is what needs challenging, as if these people have never worked they wont appreciate how self esteem and confidence etc that are linked to working.

I’ve got friends with a kid ( or two) and you can’t work if your on your own with a kid. No one to look after it, and no one will give you a job anyway.

Using kids as an excuse not to work doesn’t wash either because there is ample provision for childcare, subsidised from age 2 in most areas if on a low income and 70 per cent of costs covered by tax credits. All primary schools have provision or links to breakfast and after school clubs too.

Yes it does make work a bit more of a juggling act, and some might see it as too much ‘hassle’ but it is better in the long run for the kids to know their mum or dad goes out to work, after all they are their role model.

CG…..regards the lad not getting in the Army. Wasnt down to his grades, he just didnt turn up for the interview.

Thanks bigbloke. Either parent could have gone along for support, even if on the pretence of needing to be in that area anyway. Though, to be fair, it may have been a case of not affording the bus fare. An opportunity lost – his life could have been turned around.

But you know, it just comes back to the fact that everyone is good at something and need to walk the right path.

Broke my heart watching the ex/current drug addict, hard cycle to break made harder by obvious other background issues fueling the addiction. Wish more people would watch things like this instead of tarring all addicts as scum wasters etc.

I wanted to give that bloke a hug, incredibly sad to see someone struggling so much.

Using kids as an excuse not to work doesn’t wash either because there is ample provision for childcare, subsidised from age 2 in most areas if on a low income and 70 per cent of costs covered by tax credits. All primary schools have provision or links to breakfast and after school clubs too.

not in my experience, and 30% is still alot of money to find if your on minimum wage.

Then there is a real issue with flexibility, if you have kids you have to be in a certain place at a certain time, employers too often forget employees have lives outside of work.

not in my experience, and 30% is still alot of money to find if your on minimum wage.

Then there is a real issue with flexibility, if you have kids you have to be in a certain place at a certain time, employers too often forget employees have lives outside of work.

yes it is hard, but that is life. Most people have to juggle or make sacrifices in one way or another, not just those with children. It is about setting a good example to your children to show them that you work for your money.

Employers can be flexible if you explain your circumstances. Not all are I know that, but unless you ask, you will never know.

I have 3 children, raise them on my own, work full time, youngest just turned 4yrs, so completely appreciate how difficult working and being a single parent is. I also have to work unsociable hours and some weekends, but where there’s a will there’s a way 😉

Employers can be flexible if you explain your circumstances. Not all are I know that, but unless you ask, you will never know.

i know employers who will bend if the employee brings something with them, others treat staff as cannon fodder and don’t care. I think this comes back to the skills and employability issue. A good employee, will get a job, and the employer will do what they can to help. But if you have little to offer you are going to find it hard.

The other thing, applying for jobs is soul destroying, each rejection hurts, it is easier said, to not take it personally than in practice to believe it. Been there done that and don’t want to go back there. How many rejections can someone take before they give up, and assume they are worthless?

some will have an IQ of 130 some will get Phd’s

Bit of irony, my IQ is higher than my girlfriends.

She has a PHD, I have a BTEC first Diploma. My highest GCSE grade was D. I’m terribly lazy.

I’m terribly lazy

Or maybe IQ tests are just a loada bollox and you’re not as clever as you think you are ?

Ha, I can assure you I do not think I’m clever. And yes, I’m aware of the flaws of the various IQ tests out there. No test of knowledge.

The girlfriends ability to gain a PHD was achieved, in my opinion. With her ability to retain information on a subject that I would never find interesting.

i know employers who will bend if the employee brings something with them, others treat staff as cannon fodder and don’t care. I think this comes back to the skills and employability issue. A good employee, will get a job, and the employer will do what they can to help. But if you have little to offer you are going to find it hard.

The other thing, applying for jobs is soul destroying, each rejection hurts, it is easier said, to not take it personally than in practice to believe it. Been there done that and don’t want to go back there. How many rejections can someone take before they give up, and assume they are worthless?

It is a real bug bear of mine that education is not free as an adult learner, some courses are , but many need paying for. if somebody wants to train or learn a skill to enable them to find work, then it should be funded , but it isn’t. This is why people get stuck.
I also understand how soul destroying rejections are and it can make you give up. But…..
This is where the experiences of home life/upbringing and work ethics come into play. if somebody has been raised to believe in themselves and to believe that working is better than not working, then that person will keep on trying until they do get a job.
The others might give up but I don’t believe there are many people genuinely happy on the dole, that in itself long term can bring feelings of worthlessness and rejection. It is a circle that is very difficult to break out of, but not impossible.

I can assure you I do not think I’m clever

Well there’s no need to undersell yourself.

Maybe just not as clever as your girlfriend with the PhD ? 😉

It is a real bug bear of mine that education is not free as an adult learner

Not just free, but culturally normal. I’d love to see genuine adult education developed far more than it currently is.

Maybe just not as clever as your girlfriend with the PhD ?

I’m frequently impressed by her ability to retain information, I do love a nerd.

Cooking food is the most amusing. I’ll ask a question about why something is cooked in a certain way. And the answer comes back in literally molecular detail.

It is a real bug bear of mine that education is not free as an adult learner, some courses are , but many need paying for. if somebody wants to train or learn a skill to enable them to find work, then it should be funded , but it isn’t. This is why people get stuck.

I know this is a small case, but if you have a degree and want to get a second to retrain, forget it, no loans nothing! and the recent changes to funding!! the cost of OU courses for example has gone through the roof!

How many companies pay for real training for their staff anymore? IME very few, they expect you to know what you are doing but won’t pay to expand your skills. So how is the employee meant to gain new skills?

if these people have never worked they wont appreciate how self esteem and confidence etc that are linked to working.

I haven’t worked for over ten years, have you noticed a lack of either?

People generally work because they have to or think they have to, and dream of the day they will no longer have to work (and get very angry when the retirement age goes up). If they work out that they don’t have to work to live as they wish it’s perfectly logical not to work. The system is wrong in it makes life so comfortable when not working. How you make it less comfortable without depriving children or depriving people of the tools they need to find work I have no idea.

The last sentence of the post above is it.

We have filled the gap left by low paid jobs with benefits that remove the need to work at all. I know it’s a cliche but there must be some jobs out there if half of Eastern Europe thinks its worth getting on their bikes to come here.

Perhaps we should replicate whatever social support they have.

Rarely does formal education finish the job, most people develop skills whilst in work that help the throughout their career. So some of people in the program will have loads to offer, it’ll just ever be seen.

We have filled the gap left by low paid jobs with benefits that remove the need to work at all.

Well that’s not true is it ? ………my understanding is that unemployment benefit is considerably lower than the minimum wage.

I know it’s a cliche but there must be some jobs out there if half of Eastern Europe thinks its worth getting on their bikes to come here. Perhaps we should replicate whatever social support they have.

Apparently according to a study compiled for the IMF :

UK unemployment benefit less generous than Romania, Albania and the US

So you want to increase benefits in the UK to bring them into line ?

East Europeans are getting jobs in the UK because skilled tradesmen with work experience have a huge advantage over untrained school leavers with no work experience, it’s not rocket science.

Being successful career wise requires a lot more than IQ, social skills are very important as is business judgement. Many very bright people are hopeless commercially and vice-versa.