Viewing 39 posts - 81 through 119 (of 119 total)
  • Cerakote: Harder, Better, Faster, Stronger?
  • cerakote_up_north
    Full Member

    @jim Trailrider

    If it sticks to cerakote then why not 👍🏻It’s if it sticks though!

    johncoventry
    Full Member

    I remember this stuff from over 20 years ago as a coating for exhaust manifolds.

    You buy the kit to apply it yourself. Though I never tried it.

    Looks good on bikes.

    didnthurt
    Full Member

    Cheers for clearing up for me.

    I’d like parts like derailleurs, chains, chain rings and crank arms coming coated in Cerakote.
    Annodising rubs off in one rid at times, not really fit for purpose on parts that are subject to abrasion.

    Mowgli
    Free Member

    I had my Rocket cerakote’d last year. It looks great but the abrasion resistance is nothing like I’d hoped for. Luckily I invisiframed it straight away so it mostly still looks good. It wore through pretty quickly where there was some unprotected cable rub – but maybe that was asking too much of it. It was cheap enough to have it done so I’m not unhappy with it.

    Some pics in this thread https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/cerakote-for-bikes/#post-12134059

    cerakote_up_north
    Full Member

    @johncoventry

    Was that cerakote? Or duracote, guncoat or possibly zircotec

    Cerakote is applied with an lph-80 spray gun but requires 100% dry air so compressed air ideally from a screw compressor running 3x filters then 2x filters plus a dryer. The bead blasting cabinet must get the same dry air and then there is the spray booth and the oven to cure it.

    It could be done at home but the results could be great but possibly not as the preparation is key.

    Other coatings are similar but don’t stand up to the same conditions cerakote can.

    We did go overboard to make the best facility possible so we spent around 38k on the set up but it’s paying off already as we have been running 10 months and not a single return or unhappy customer to date.

    cheers_drive
    Full Member

    As mentioned we,76 Projects, have just started offering Cerakoted Enduro mounts.
    Unless I missed it another property that’s useful but has not mentioned is that its hydrophobic ie water and mud runs off.

    JMJ in Cornwall are also offering Cerakote bike frame painting.

    cerakote_up_north
    Full Member

    Yes there are lots of places offering it and you are guaranteed quality and service if you check out your local approved certified applicator:

    https://www.cerakote.com/find-applicator

    We are at LA2 0PX

    I can be contacted at Cerakote UP North for questions and pricing

    Anyone is welcome to visit and see what’s involved in the process.

    Cheers:
    Matt – 07791 292683

    singlespeedstu
    Full Member

    I’ve PMd you a question.

    bikesandboots
    Full Member

    Unite have switched to cerakote and increased prices about 40% over the same item when they had them anodised

    The stem was £70 normal price earlier this year (I probably got one of the last batches on sale), now it’s £80. IIRC they did say something about energy costs for anodizing, so it might actually be cheaper now with Cerakote than it otherwise would have been.

    Unite have been offering it on pedals, stems and other parts too. Be very interesting to see how the pedals stand up (from rubbing rather than impacts)

    Would be interesting to run pedals with different coating on the left/right for a couple of months.

    cerakote_up_north
    Full Member

    @bikesandboots

    Anodising is a dipping process using non UV stable dyes to colour the alloy. It’s a fast process perfect for hundreds of small parts at a time. It is actually designed to not be dyed at all and used as a key and to protect alloy before painting. But everyone adds dyes and makes it look pretty.

    Cerakote is ceramic paint, a tester bottle costs around £32 for 125ML

    The price go’s down as you buy more but still expensive compared to anodising but also far superior for the right parts.

    Most cerakote H,V,E series is cured in an oven so electricity prices are taken into account.

    The process for anodising to cerakote is chalk and cheese just like the finished part. They aren’t comparable!

    Northwind
    Full Member

    johncoventry
    Full Member

    I remember this stuff from over 20 years ago as a coating for exhaust manifolds.

    You buy the kit to apply it yourself. Though I never tried it.

    You can do but the process is pretty exacting, to the extent that DIY vs industrial isn’t really comparable.

    benpinnick
    Full Member

    The process for anodising to cerakote is chalk and cheese just like the finished part. They aren’t comparable

    Aside from a barrier to entry does cerakote prevent oxidisation at all? Is there any chemical bond between cerakote and the material or is it just a physical one?

    stanley
    Full Member

    Another advert?

    big_scot_nanny
    Full Member

    A couple of questions now about clear coating steel, viability and longevity of that.

    Interested too, would appreciate what you can tell us, thanks Matt.

    ryanmart96
    Free Member

    Those cranks will be looking shiny in no time with foot rub. It’s tough but not indestructible

    cerakote_up_north
    Full Member

    @stanley

    I contacted Singletrack to see if they would like to post a news item about the process of Cerakoting MTB parts as it might be interesting for subscribers to the magazine, clearly apart from your negative response it is interesting. I didn’t pay Singletrack and they didn’t pay me, in the new post comments there are other Cerakote companies mentioned. You pick who you would want to use, again clearly this isn’t of interest to you other than to post negativity which I don’t personally understand what you are getting out of that?

    v7fmp
    Full Member

    @cerakote_up_north – dont take it personally. You could be offering free paint jobs and a bunch of these miserable old sods would still find something to complain about. its just the way STW works! You learn to live with this ‘charm’ after a while.

    So dont be put off, just answer those with genuine enquiries. 😀

    cerakote_up_north
    Full Member

    @ryanmart96

    We will post links to photos as they are used and abused. Your right nothing is indestructible and thats why nobody sells it as indestructible. Its stronger and 3 to 4 times lighter and more resistant to brake fluids, cleaners etc than paint or powder and looks amazing as its so thin it keeps the machined/fabricated look of the part instead of covering it in a layer of thick goo (powder coat)

    cerakote_up_north
    Full Member

    @v7fmp Bang on! 🙂

    cerakote_up_north
    Full Member

    @benpinnick I am doing a bit more research on this at the moment. I will get back to you!

    jonba
    Free Member

    I doubt it does chemically bond. That’s not a normal mechanism of adhesion to metals. Certain siloxane and phosphate groups interact. Whether I’d class it as a bond rather than an interaction is a question. Everything on the MSDS is marked trade secret so I doubt I’ll find out without an NDA. Ceramic is normally just used if the chemistry is inorganic. Silicone/siloxane based is really common (I’m not aware of any other major options but if it wasn’t mass market I wouldn’t know about it). Si coatings are nothing new. It offers advantages over vinyl/polyester types, PU and things like epoxy.

    Most coatings that protect from corrosion do so through barrier properties or galvanic. Zinc phosphates passivate the surface (raise the pH) but I doubt that’s the method. I did smile when the test method was ASTM B117. The industry has largely moved on from that now but it still works. When I was doing off shore anti corrosives for steel the industry standard was Iso12944-9 (Norsok m510 rev 6). For steel oxidation is a real problem. For aluminium less so. In many specifications you don’t need to paint it and it can be left raw as the corrosion allowance is so low. It oxidises almost instantly but the oxide layer is tightly adhered and then protects the underlying metal. It chalks over time but is easily cleaned. Pretty much what anodising is but that is thicker and you can add colour.

    Was your abrasion resistance a Taber abrader? There might be better tests for UK riders. We used to use a grit slurry or sand slurry. Coat a pipe. Put it off centre through a small drum. Rotate the drum for a few weeks. It replicated real world water treatment plants, ocean floor etc. There were also fender abrasion tests for boats. Certainly in the yachting world the oligarchs were concerned that the gloss would be loss through abrasion against fenders. You occasionally see them wrapped in a soft fabric.

    Anyway love a paint thread (it is paint, just a slightly less common chemistry 😉 and some marketing ).

    Looks nice though.

    chrismac
    Full Member

    Definitely looks like the way forward if I fancy a change in colour

    mick_r
    Full Member

    jonba & Mr Cerakote

    What would happen if Cerakote was applied on blasted then zinc phosphated steel? Any benefits or would it just look worse for no benefit? I’m interested as I try to get things phosphate dipped prior to powder or paint as it gives some internal tube protection and cleans out any residual brazing flux.

    Regarding the advertorial comments that have been floating around. It is appreciated how much time and patience you have put into answering questions, and it is right that you get some benefit for that. People are just remembering that STW has historically been much less tolerant of free advertising on the forum (and it is a recent feature of the website where a front page piece then automatically becomes a forum discussion topic – you wouldn’t have generated 100 responses to a front page article prior to that change).

    Apologies if a single mention of another supplier is derailing things, and in fairness they have previously contributed foc to a forum project:

    Happy Christmas STW story

    bedmaker
    Full Member

    Another advert?

    Seems more like a useful exchange of relevant info to me.

    cerakote_up_north
    Full Member

    @mick_r @bedmaker

    I haven’t bothered replying sorry, I’ll leave any comments now. If people want to discuss it they can contact me or any other company that do cerakote. The only thing I would say is non certified companies may do a great job or may not!

    WE DO A GREAT JOB WITH A GUARANTEE! If I’m not happy its 100% perfect it doesn’t leave the workshop and we do it again!

    People will always find negatives and they bore me! Thanks for the great and positive comments, I personally have no time for negativity if I did I would watch the news.

    We are Cerakote up north and we do a great job if you want a great job doing!

    Northwind
    Full Member

    Heh, just noticed you do a GSXR SRAD top yoke with an SV650 logo as an option, there’s someone that knows what people want!

    cerakote_up_north
    Full Member

    @mick_r

    Thanks Mick, We have coated parts that have the internal and external zinc phosphated steel the Cerakote process will remove the external coating but has incredible corrosion properties itself so you would end up with internally and externally protected steel.

    If i had not contacted Singletrack (the only magazine I have continually bought for years) and told them about the Cerakote process then this would not be something anyone would be talking abut now. I think it is a positive thing for people to learn about new ideas that benefit their hobby.

    I have mentioned my business minimal times, I am a cyclist myself and thought this process that I do would interest other people, no one is becoming rich off a single forum post.

    Without me answering questions the forum post would just stop and no one would learn anything about the process. I am here to advocate Cerakote as a good coating for our hobby, believe me I have not been inundated by work from it but I have enjoyed answering the questions and making sure people understand what it can and cant do! Keeping forums buzzing is what keeps people talking and keeps companies innovating new parts and processes, it is all positive for the industry and the growth of the hobby. You seem to understand that alot better than some. So your comments are appreciated.

    Now Im off to buy a few MTB parts to coat, stick on my bike and further test them on some trails, its all in the spirit of innovation, education, research and development. Lol!!!

    cerakote_up_north
    Full Member

    @northwind

    Yes they are a popular part that is for sure. I wont mention my other little business of making them though on here. Lol!!

    singlespeedstu
    Full Member

    @cerakote_up_north.
    Did you ever find out about coating a steel frame?

    finbar
    Free Member

    Also interested if Cerakote can clearcoat steel? Specifically in my case whether it could protect a polished rather than raw finish….?

    I have some Profile cranks I’d be interested in doing.

    cerakote_up_north
    Full Member

    @finbar @singlespeedstu

    Hi,
    We have a coating that can clear coat polished aluminium without it allowing water ingress and protecting it from oxidisation and chemicals but i will ask Cerakote technical the question about if it can coat a polished steel frame. I am wondering if bare steel in the UK climate might be a bridge too far but i will find out for you. Cheers Matt

    finbar
    Free Member

    Thank you 🙂

    singlespeedstu
    Full Member

    Cheers.👍

    Speeder
    Full Member

    What’s gap filling like? I’ve got a doubler on the downtube on my steel frame where the shock mount is attached and following good practice, it’s only welded on the down sides of the tube leaving the across open. Frustratingly last time it was powder coated the paint didn’t flow into the gap between the doubler and tube and a bit of moisture has got in and it’s rusted slightly. I’m not overly bothered structurally but it’s annoying cosmetically. Will your Ceracote process cover this and stop it rusting/bleeding out?

    Cheers

    squirrelking
    Free Member

    From what I can see H series goes straight onto polished firearms parts so should work.

    bentudder
    Full Member

    What about marine applications? The dinghy class I race has had the same section of alloy extrusion for a boom for |30 years; new ones are over 500 squid, and old sections are just fine but cosmetically tatty as the anodising weathers pretty badly. Cerakote might make sense to refurb these booms so they last a bit longer and look a lot nicer. Is that something you could do? Sections are fairly tiny (maybe 100mm x 100mm extrusions), but they’re about 2.5m long.

    cerakote_up_north
    Full Member

    @speeder

    Cerakote is ultra thin only 25-40microns it has zero gap filling properties. Although if the frame was stripped and then bead blasted and cerakoted the cerakote would get into the gap and protect everything it touches.

    cerakote_up_north
    Full Member

    @bentudder

    It would work perfectly in marine applications as it’s corrosion and salt resistance properties out last other surface coatings by literally a couple of thousand hours in a salt chamber, see this test on stainless steel against cerakoted stainless steel the standard uncoated steel showed corrosion starting in 24 hours (that’s how aggressive the salt chamber is) but cerakoted stainless steel lasted over 2000 hours.

    The issue we have is that the machine to prepare the part has a maximum size of 1.4m x 750mm x 750mm but we could possibly use a local company that have a bead blast room to do longer or larger sections.

    cerakote_up_north
    Full Member

    @squirrelking

    Cerakote is applied to media blasted parts using a fine 100grit aluminium oxide media.

    H series needs this to key to the surface. For polished aluminium you use cerakote MC5100 clearcoat which is designed to coat polished alloy

Viewing 39 posts - 81 through 119 (of 119 total)

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