“This may be poking the hornets nest,”
It is congratulations on me now having to monitor a thread.

Sorry. Was hoping to get “why are we arguing about this” to be a separate conversation to actually arguing about it. I can see this is probably not going to be the case.
I’ll duck out of this thread now. Everyone else please ignore my question and let’s go back to arguing about wheelsize.

so explain, if you can?

Well, I was referring to the “Why was my post closed?” Type threads. The parody ones can be funny but also annoying after the first one.

Sorry. Was hoping to get “why are we arguing about this” to be a separate conversation to actually arguing about it. I can see this is probably not going to be the case.

That was my concern yes but everyone seems to be behaving.

so explain, if you can?

Diminishing returns.

There’s currently eleven closed threads on the front page, all of which someone had to take time out of their day to close because a) they’re content-bereft aside from the original lame gag and b) they gum up the forum. The first one is vaguely amusing, the tenth is a pain in the bollocks.

Our Man in the Middle East on BBC Sounds gives an interesting overview of recent times in the region, BTW.

Hopefully all of you pushing for more discussion, arguments and free speech are prepared to give up your time to act as moderators for free?

Yeah, I’d be happy to do that. Has to be said I do wonder how mods are chosen on the forum… it’s all a bit secret society, hopefully more masonic than templar. Secret handshakes, ok; templar anus kissing, overkill for an MTB forum 🙂

…

What is it they say of subjects you should never talk about down the pub ?, Football, Religion, Politics 😕

templar anus kissing

This probably will put most off thinking of helping out, but what goes on in the ‘Members Only’ section is now open to wild speculation.

It’s funny once. Then it’s taking the piss.

Nah, the more the better it gets. I thought last night’s selection was excellently creative.

This probably will put most off thinking of helping out, but what goes on in the ‘Members Only’ section is now open to wild speculation.

You have to be in it, to be in it. So to speak.

Cougar

Full Member

Hahahahaha!!!!! You’re kidding right? Couldn’t be more liberal biased on here if you tried.

You say that like it’s a bad thing. If you’re sitting there thinking “STW is great but what we really need on this forum for balance is more overt racists” then might I recommend Pistonheads?

I used to like Pistonheads, until the fateful day I decided to have a peek at the News, Politics and Economics subforum………

I also spend time on TDPRI, a guitar forum with a ban on religious and political posts.
It makes a refreshing change, tbh.
The only ‘Magic Grandad’ they seem to mention is Leo Fender.

Has to be said I do wonder how mods are chosen on the forum

<span style=”font-size: 0.8rem;”>Have you seen A Man Called Horse?</span>

Nah, the more the better it gets. I thought last night’s selection was excellently creative.

Maybe keep them in one thread instead of clogging up the forum?

I browse pistonheads and had a high ish post count.

It’s a bit like here good community with very helpful members.

Some members are polar opposite to some on here.

People are different and have different ideas. Having an argument isn’t the issue. Being a nasty self righteous cock is regardless of opinion.

Be dull if we all though the same.

Maybe keep them in one thread instead of clogging up the forum?

OK point taken.

Hmmm.

I don’t want to associate with the type of people who post on the Pistonheads NPE subforum.
Not even virtually.

I still look at ‘Shed Of The Week’ now and then, but I scrub myself with bleach afterwards.

Agreed there are some right throbbers on there but Dont go into that rabbit hole then. I don’t same way I seldom post in similar threads on here.

The legal section and home DIY and car sections are good. Also had some very helpful medical advice from a consultant orthopaedic consultant after a bad accident years ago.

Benefit with ph is you’ve so many sub forums you can avoid all that.

Well, shit the bed, I’m in danger of sort of agreeing with dazh on something.

He talks bollocks most of the time but I guess even a ****ed watch tells the right time twice a day…🤔

Whilst I can appreciate the mods thinking “sod this for a game of soldiers let’s just close it” attitude, the sheer futility of Israel killing 20 Palestinians for every dead Israeli means this will always be an issue until Israel treats the Palestinians with respect (I.e. never).

The basic fact is that the Palestinians are a people on the wrong end of an epic, historical wrong. They will always have a cause and will always have support because of it. Israel has nukes and one of the most militarized societies on earth – and does this make their civilians safe? No.

Can anyone recommend a forum for people who ride bikes that like to talk about bikes?

hth:

Bike Forum

So if someone goes to a LBGQX conference and hear all about the fact that people should be free to be themselves without fear or prejudice and stands up agreeing whole heartedly with the sentiment of freedom from fear of speaking your true beliefs this is considered good.

When they go on to say they are a raging racist homophobe and expect to get the same support for their views then they are likely to be sadly disappointed.

You choose your forum to express your views.

Do you want full support? Go to people who think the same and join their forum.
Do you want a sensible debate? Go to a brokerage and reconciliation focussed forum.
Do you want to rant pointlessly? Go to the STW Chat Forum.

I do wonder how mods are chosen on the forum…

From experience it’s mostly by not being a dick. Which is why there’s desperately few. And how on god’s green earth I got asked I’ll never fathom.

Well, shit the bed, I’m in danger of sort of agreeing with dazh on something.

Well, I laughed.

You choose your forum to express your views.

This is the “freedom of speech” argument again. The flaw here is the belief that all views are equal. If you say that grass is green and I say that it’s purple, we’re both entitled to those views but they shouldn’t be given equal credence. Because it’s ****ing green.

RustySpanner
Full Member
Hmmm.

I don’t want to associate with the type of people who post on the Pistonheads NPE subforum

Confession, never been on the pistonheads forum but just casually had a peak after working out which sub forum is the NPE one you refer to.

Absolutely **** that place. Could feel my blood pressure rising within a couple of minutes.

From experience it’s mostly by not being a dick.

I’m impressed that there are any moderators.

Regarding the OP censorship is a tough one. I fundamentally disagree with it yet at the same time there are folk out there who are just such utter **** nobody should be subject to their views. I’d rather these people be in plain sight though as driving them away is dangerous. They end up totally surrounded by likeminded people and then there is nobody available to challenge them.

If you say that grass is green and I say that it’s purple, we’re both entitled to those views but they shouldn’t be given equal credence. Because it’s ****ing green.

You don’t know everything

Of course I get the point that grass is almost universally recognised as green (although mine was yellow a couple of weeks ago and will probably be brown in a few weeks time) but unless we allow and debate other views then we don’t challenge our understanding and learn, and we don’t expose those views and people with those views where appropriate. I know the <place that must not be mentioned> has a tendency to go very unpleasant and have specific implications that maybe necessitates censorship by the owners, but eg: CV19, or Brexit – this place has a tendency to self censor alternative views on those by dogpiling and hounding out and it’s not healthy.

And, I like my Gyoza steamed. There, I said it…..

this place has a tendency to self censor alternative views on those by dogpiling and hounding out and it’s not healthy.

It can certainly look and feel that way sometimes, and that’s where sensible, time consuming (and voluntary) modding is required. The minute people start playing then man and not the argument they need to be warned or banned or the thread has to be shut down.

I’m guessing on this occasion the mods just saved themselves an hour of their voluntarily given time by going in early. I’m not happy it happened the way it did, but I understand why.

Censorship and freedom of speech are tricky concepts, terminally confused by Americans who can’t read their own constitution. It is now infecting the world where people think they have a ‘right’ to express their opinions.

Censorship is everywhere, some mandated by the government (on behalf of the public), some self imposed by individuals. Come to my house and drop the c-bombs in front of my kids and I will censor you out the house. Similarly, if you start espousing your opinion that actually sending immigrants back to their place of origin is a good idea.

Freedom of speech, again it is not a one size fits all rule. You can’t libel people, you can’t run into a crowded theatre and shout fire.

The important thing (and what the American constitution says but is ignored) is that “governments” (not bike forum owners) should not be able to stymie criticism of themselves by censoring dissenting views.

And before someone says, but effectively forum owners are the government, there is a big difference. You can go start your own bike forum to exist alongside, try running an alternative government.

Indeed. Say what you want. But you don’t have the right to come into my house and write your views all over the walls of my house. This forum is the same. We’re all guests here.

I was going to say exactly what kelvin just said.

I have a few views, unfortunately the last time I expressed views on the way STW is run I earned a 3 month ban along with a load of others who since haven’t returned. So I won’t say anything save what I already have.

That would depend entirely on how you expressed those views, but as you’ve presented it here I call bullshit. That almost certainly wouldn’t have happened in isolation, there’s more to that story than you’re letting on.

Anyway. As most readers will know, I was a moderator up until recently, for ten years. I’m going to use the word ‘we’ here because it’s just easier, if a football fan can talk about who “we” are playing today when they haven’t kicked a ball in 20 years then I think I’m justified.

Let me let you into a little secret about STW moderation.

It’s difficult. Everything we do is a string of individual judgement calls. Trickier calls we will discuss as a team, and if someone thinks a decision is wrong then it’ll be discussed and potentially overturned. But it’s a knife-edge balancing act when it comes to contentious or emotive subjects (and gods know that as a forum user myself I’ve been as least as bad as many for poking bears over the years).

Speaking purely personally, if I were faced with a censorship call I was unsure of then I would generally let it go. Ie, when in doubt I would always tend towards under- than over-moderation. Frankly, I hate censorship and I think if people want to demonstrate to the world what utter shitbags they are then they should be allowed to crack on and let everyone else put them back in the box. But some on this thread are suggesting that when a majority of the userbase is arguing with a highly unpopular opinion then it’s bullying so… well, can you start to understand yet why no matter what we do we can’t win? But if we’ve got half the Members crying out for less moderation and the other half crying out for more, I think perhaps we’ve got it about right.

I don’t know what happened over the Gaza thread, I’m out of the loop. But I reckon I can make an educated guess. These generally get flagged up to the team as “one to keep an eye on” but if there’s no-one around to do that then it’s likely to get closed pre-emptively. It’s rare but it happens; eg, if I were still a moderator and that thread appeared at 3am just as I was on my way to bed I’d have buttoned it, 100%. We could always reopen it in the morning if needs be.

And sometimes it’s really just not worth the hassle.

Was that when TSY and Don Simon went at the same time, Squirrelking?

From experience it’s mostly by not being a dick. Which is why there’s desperately few. And how on god’s green earth I got asked I’ll never fathom.

Presumably some technical know-how might be helpful too? I try not to be a dick, and have considered volunteering to moderate once or twice, but then I thought: a) I don’t actually know anything about computers, and b) the amount of time you guys must spend online is ridiculous! 😉

That would depend entirely on how you expressed those views, but as you’ve presented it here I call bullshit. That almost certainly wouldn’t have happened in isolation, there’s more to that story than you’re letting on.

Call what you like, here’s a link. My banning reason was “abuse of an STW staff member”, Mike got a ban as well. Not my first ban either, been done for “deliberately avoiding the swear filter” despite trying to edit the offending post (I’d posted and been banned in less time than it will take you to read this) and attempting to contact the admin to apologise for my error.

Negative use of the forum

It is our aim that the forum should have an overall positive effect on the mountain bikers that use it. Experience has shown us that certain individuals like to contribute simply to cause trouble. Technically these people are known as Trolls but like all negative elements in society they learn the rules and are quite cunning in their ability to stay just within the letter of the law and yet still manage to cause irritation to other users. So, to try and combat these negative forum users we reserve the right to suspend the accounts or remove the posts of anyone we consider to be a predominantly negative contributor to the forum.

For example…

If your posts are persistently argumentative we will consider that a negative use of our forum.
If you resort to abuse of other forum users we will consider that a negative use of our forum.
If you post irrelevant posts to the topic in discussion we will consider this negative use of the forum.

Reading that it would appear the rules are followed where it suits.This is what happens when your mods are opaque, I’d say it speaks volumes about a persons character if they take such a position without the public recogition. Anyway, I’m probably saying too much at this point, no doubt the secret police will be reaching for the hammers soon.

FWIW I’d sooner ban any political or religious discussion on here, it seems to be a small minority of people on here who can debate like grown adults and invariably any discussion gets derailled very quickly. Quite sad really.

The Covid thread has been the best single source of information on the topic from a few weeks into the pandemic.

Without question – thank you TiRed.

No argument from me! And second the thank you.

Call what you like, here’s a link.

So you were asked to stop pushing and to contact Mark directly to discuss it but didn’t so he temporarily banned you.

“My email is easy. mark@singletrackworld.com But if the mods keep getting abuse I’ll be the one banning the abusers.”

That makes far more sense. The moderators wouldn’t have done that, we’d have just put up with the background shite as per normal, but Mark is very protective of his team.

Regardless, thank you for the link. People can read it and make up their own minds.

This is what happens when your mods are opaque,

I was never opaque. Nor is Lee. Others are because:

I’d say it speaks volumes about a persons character if they take such a position without the public recogition.

You’ve got that arse backwards. When I was approached to be a moderator I was strongly advised to remain anonymous for my own protection, as at the time certain minority sections of the userbase had a history of being a bit stalkery. Abuse via Facebook / email etc. outside of the forum. What it “speaks about a person’s character” is that they’re afraid of you. Yet still choose to do this anyway.

Anyway, I’m probably saying too much at this point, no doubt the secret police will be reaching for the hammers soon.

Oh, just **** off with that. It’s utter lies and you know it.

FWIW I’d sooner ban any political or religious discussion on here

Have you considered not reading it? It’s not mandatory and it speaks volumes about a persons character that they’ll sit there reading something they don’t like in order to complain about it.

And with this thread has reached its conclusion.