Cav out of tour

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  • Cav out of tour
  • Premier Icon unklehomered
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    How very dare you!!!

    whatnobeer
    Member

    *shakes fist*

    Does he not already have a pretty high status with the British media? Can’t see him (or anyone) getting ‘Brad like’ status.

    Premier Icon nemesis
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    LOL…

    Not sure on the media darling thing though. Brad is more ‘interesting’ to the media than Cav is, especially as he’s been more circumspect after stages recently.

    cynic-al
    Member

    🙄

    5 minutes to change title and regain some “non-tit”ground.

    Premier Icon rOcKeTdOg
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    Cav has more wins than Brad, is one Tour win worth multiple stages to the uninitiated?

    slackalice
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    Were you not getting enough attention RD?

    mudshark
    Member

    Cav has an interesting way of dealing with any journos who ask him questions who aren’t experts on cycling – kinda sneers at them – or is that just when he loses?!

    Premier Icon chakaping
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    You don’t help yourself do you?

    whatnobeer
    Member

    Cav has more wins than Brad, is one Tour win worth multiple stages to the uninitiated?

    Yup, unless Cav wins the yellow jumper he’ll not be on the same level as Wiggins.

    Cav has an interesting way of dealing with any journos who ask him questions who aren’t experts on cycling – kinda sneers at them – or is that just when he loses?!

    He’s only gone off at journos who haven’t put the effort in once or maybe twice that I can remember. The most famous being after the Olympics, and I really don’t blame him for that, I’d of done the same.

    Premier Icon variflex
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    I was going to say he looked fit as a fiddle going up Holme Moss yesterday.

    mrchrispy
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    Right that’s it….I’m going to explode tour juice all over the place.
    I’m doing Holme Moss tonight

    Premier Icon rOcKeTdOg
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    Not really, but is this his Olympic road race replacement which will launch him to Sir Brad status in the British media?

    Premier Icon rOcKeTdOg
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    He’s over the bronchitis that kept him out of the British champs then?

    Premier Icon igm
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    Cav – points jersey in each of the grand tours plus a WC road race jersey.

    Wiggins – GC jersey in one grand tour plus an IOC time trial.

    Roughly right? I know I’ve skipped the track stuff, but for high level road riders including track wins is like including the under 21s wins. Similarly no minor tours. Though I probably should have included the classics – Cav has one I think, can’t remember about Wiggins.

    On that basis, Cav is the greatest current British road rider.

    The greatest ever British cyclist? Beryl maybe?

    Premier Icon rOcKeTdOg
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    Cav won MSR & has a vast palmares of stage wins, I think he’s under valued but then most of the people I work with can’t understand why he can win 5 tour stages but not the overall

    mt
    Member

    int Cav a bit past it now?

    Premier Icon ads678
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    Cav has a glamour model wife as well as being very successful, surely that should put him up there with the best footballers in the British media.

    Maybe it’s his sock tan that’s holding him back!!

    mudshark
    Member

    He reckons he’s lost his aero advantage – Kittel, Greipel, Demare and others will be up there, a lot depending on a bit of luck really. Love the way Cav manages to find his way through the riders in the last few hundred metres.

    Premier Icon rOcKeTdOg
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    I’d hate to be up against Cav wearing the Yellow Jersey after stage one I bet he’s super motivated, even more than usual if that’s possible

    they seem to be behind him in the Southern enclave of Yorkshire that is Harrogate

    Premier Icon njee20
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    Kittel definitely had the edge last season, Cav’s not had the luck this year, interesting to see how the Tour goes. Green will be Sagan’s again I reckon, sadly. I don’t think Cav’s too old, just that a couple of younger guys have appeared and spoiled a lot of his fun.

    He certainly appears to lead more of a rockstar lifestyle than Wiggins – glamour model wife, drives an Audi R8 etc.

    Premier Icon nemesis
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    On that basis, Cav is the greatest current British road rider.

    Potentially yes. Historically the problem has been that the British public only considered the Olympics as important and don’t really understand how you can win 5 stages and finish in the bottom half of the event.

    Wiggins – GC jersey in one grand tour plus an IOC time trial.

    Roughly right?

    Not quite – Wiggins has won more races outright.

    Cavendish major wins

    Stage races

    Ster ZLM Toer (2012)
    Tour of Qatar (2013)

    One-day races and Classics

    Milan – San Remo (2009)
    Grote Scheldeprijs (2007, 2008, 2011)
    Kuurne–Brussels–Kuurne (2012)
    National Road Race Championships

    Wiggins major wins

    Grand Tours

    Tour de France

    Stage races

    Herald Sun Tour (2009)
    Critérium du Dauphiné (2011, 2012)
    Paris–Nice (2012)
    Tour de Romandie (2012)
    Tour of Britain (2013)
    Tour of California (2014)

    One-day races and Classics

    National Time Trial Championships (2009, 2010, 2014)
    National Road Race Championships (2011

    Premier Icon njee20
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    Not quite – Wiggins has won more races outright.

    Mmmm, now that depends if you count a grand tour victory alone as a race win, or individual stages as a race win. Generally each stage is treated as a discrete ‘race’ in this context, ergo Cav’s won more. A little bit of splitting hairs there though.

    Cav did have quite a nice stripey rainbow jersey too, I think he won a race to get that…

    He’s won quite a few points jerseys too, it’s a little unfair to say he’s won less because he doesn’t win GC, he’s not that sort of rider.

    Premier Icon aracer
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    Nick Evans wrote:

    Mmmm, now that depends if you count a grand tour victory alone as a race win, or individual stages as a race win. Generally each stage is treated as a discrete ‘race’ in this context, ergo Cav’s won more. A little bit of splitting hairs there though.

    Not really splitting hairs at all – each stage win counts as a win on the palmares, that’s the standard way to do it. Hence Cav has won more races unless you do some convoluted thing of only counting stage race GCs.

    Meanwhile, given Cav has already been SPOTY it’s hard to see what could possibly raise his profile any higher than it is – he’s never going to be a Wiggo.

    Premier Icon paulosoxo
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    comparing Cav with Wiggo is like comparing Mo Farah with Usain Bolt, or Chirozo with a Cumberland Sausage.

    Cav did have quite a nice stripey rainbow jersey too, I think he won a race to get that…

    I did notice that after I posted the list. Wikipedia obviously doesn’t count it as a major win!

    it’s a little unfair to say he’s won less because he doesn’t win GC, he’s not that sort of rider.

    I agree. I’m just trying to point out that its a bit hard to argue one is “the best British rider”. One is obviusly better at winning stage races overall, while the other is better at stage wins.

    And in the context of good performance, is 9th in the Paris-Roubaix a better ride than a flat stage win in the TDF?

    Macavity
    Member

    http://www.itv.com/news/tyne-tees/update/2014-07-03/mark-cavendish-trains-in-harrogate-ahead-of-le-tour/

    His mother is from Harrogate, so he is not going to disappoint.

    “…launch him to Sir Brad status in the British media?”

    Sir who? is that the guy who trailed in the wake of http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/sports-personality/16303729

    Premier Icon jambalaya
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    LOL on the thread title.

    I would say Cav’s record doesn’t match Brads due to the Olympic successes. I would put Cav a long way ahead of Froome even if he does win the tour again.

    I would put Cav a long way ahead of Froome even if he does win the tour again.

    I thought we were only comparing the reputations of British riders 😆

    Premier Icon Lifer
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    Yellow jersey is the only Grand Tour GC jersey Cav hasn’t worn too…

    Premier Icon D0NK
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    but then most of the people I work with can’t understand why he can win 5 tour stages but not the overall

    does that not make your colleagues idiots?

    Premier Icon rOcKeTdOg
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    That’s not really in doubt, when asked yesterday who was PM one girl said is it Tony Blair?…no, Gordon Brown?

    does that not make your colleagues idiots?

    Most of my colleagues don’t understand how a grand tour can have five or six seperate competitions running at the same time. But then I don’t understand the rules of rugby.

    It just depends what you are interestd in.

    Premier Icon igm
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    Rules of rugby? Simples. The referee was right. Whatever he said and whatever the replay might appear to show.

    Premier Icon D0NK
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    It just depends what you are interestd in.

    my comment may have sounded harsh but this isn’t a knockout competition, it’s a 3week long event where they actually compete over 3 weeks (as opposed to a few football matches spread out over an inordinately long 4 weeks 😉 ) so individual wins don’t necessarily mean anything much at all.
    I don’t know much about F1 but I’d wager you could win the championship without winning a single race – or not win it after winning a few races.

    not knowing about the various other competitions inside the tdf itself is fair enough i reckon

    jfletch
    Member

    Cav is probably the the greatest sprinter ever.

    A rainbow jersery, a classic and more TdF stage victories than anyone if you exclude time trials and the points jersery in each grand tour.

    As a profesional cyclist he is one of the greatest of all time.

    As comparable achivements Brad has won one GT and a number of second teir events that rank slightly below a classic but are still worth having. A GC winner fininshing top 10 in Paris Roubaix is a fairly remarkable achivement in this era of specialists so he is certainly A list but he isn’t “the greatest” at anything or at least he hasn’t sustained greatness on the road.

    He does capture the British public’s imagination though, partly becuase of the Olympics but mostly through being first. He was part of the early rise of track cycling from Syndey onwards, he was the first Brit to win the TdF etc.

    Wiggins will always have a bigger profile in the UK due to being the first British tour winner plus the once in a lifetime event of a home Olympics a week afterwards.

    However Cavendish will have the bigger profile elsewhere from cycling fans around the world who will already consider him one of the best sprinters ever, even if he wasn’t to win another thing in his career.

    Premier Icon igm
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    I think one GT points jersey equals one GT GC jersey – in my mind at least.

    The points boys are also rans in the GC, but generally the reverse is true too.

    So different but equivalent. And these days you don’t win either without a decent, dedicated team.

    Edit: the vice versa also rans comment may not have applied 30-40 years ago.

    Premier Icon njee20
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    So different but equivalent. And these days you don’t win either without a decent, dedicated team.

    Unless you start looking at stage wins – TTs and mountain stages for the GC guys, and flat stages for the points jersey guys, that puts it back in Cav’s favour.

    All getting a bit apples:oranges though.

    mudshark
    Member

    I think one GT points jersey equals one GT GC jersey – in my mind at least.

    Not for me but close. As for stage wins, more impressed by summit finish on an HC climb than a sprint but they’re all great. Not sure that Cav’s the best now but at his best he was the greatest. Sagan – now there’s an awesome rider.

    Premier Icon njee20
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    Sagan is the only rider from the current generation I could genuinely see winning all three jerseys (ignoring young rider here) at a grand tour. Not necessarily the same one, but I could see him becoming a real GC contender.

    whatnobeer
    Member

    Yellow jersey is the only Grand Tour GC jersey Cav hasn’t worn too…

    Has he worn the climbers jersey in any of the GC’s? Would be fairly improbable…

    I’d say Cav is a more successful road cyclist than Wiggins, hard and silly to compare them, but winning all 3 major points Jerseys, for me, beats Wiggins tdf win.

    Premier Icon molgrips
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    Cav has dominated sprinting for a long period of time. Wiggins won the TdF just once and didn’t dominate in the others he entered. I couldn’t comment on his track record though.

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