I never said it was a Catholic Church.

But actually, if you chose to go to a place where folks hold these views, tehndon’t be surprised if they are repeated to you. Not really shoving it down your throat though is it. You could walk out.

Well at the time I wouldn’t have walked out because I suppose I (sort of) believed. But yes it was shoved down my throat. I could have made a fuss and refused to attend any religious services or assemblies where hymns and prayers were used I suppose but that’s quite a bold step for a child (who’s been indoctrinated).

When it comes down to it, whenever I meet a monotheistic religious type (eg a Jehovah’s Witness comes to my door)….I just deep down automatically think “ARGGGGGGGGGGGH A FRACKING TOASTER”. BSG nailed them.

*shudders*

I never said it was a Catholic Church

Oh do stop all the mystery, just tell us what kind of church it was,instead of having this silly,piecemeal argument which relies on me have to ask you exactly the right question..

Well at the time I wouldn’t have walked out because I suppose I (sort of) believed. But yes it was shoved down my throat. I could have made a fuss and refused to attend any religious services or assemblies where hymns and prayers were used I suppose but that’s quite a bold step for a child (who’s been indoctrinated).

So you chose to go,then now complain about what they told you?

Isn’t that a bit like the folks who say “these religion threads are so tedious” don’t like it? Don’t consume it.

I’m not sure what you consider to be meaningful ‘choice’ for a child, but a combination of brainwashing and considerable social pressure isn’t what I consider it to be.

If the religious waited until people were adults and could make up their own mind that would be different.

And later on when I realised I didn’t believe (which was pretty traumatic at the time) I did decline to attend church services, but still had to attend assemblies where we sung hymns and said prayers IIRC.

If the religious waited until people were adults and could make up their own mind that would be different.

They wouldn’t do that though because religion would cease to exist.

I’m not sure what you consider to be ‘choice’ for a child, but a combination of brainwashing and considerable social pressure isn’t what I think of.

Then it’s probably your parent you need to balme for shoving the stuff down your throat, even though you believed it. They were consenting to it on your behalf, cos you were too little to know any better. They made the choice for you.

The point was regarding being insulted. Personally I find being told that I am condemned to hell because I’m not in their club and don’t follow their rules is extremely insulting, mainly to my intelligence, but insulting non the less.

Should anyone say something like that to me, I’d raise my eyebrows in surprise, give them a really withering glare, then treat them with the contempt they deserve.
By patting them on their little pointy head, wishing them a miserable life, and going on my way.
On the other hand, I really would be insulted if someone came up to me and told me they thought a tee shirt I was wearing was ugly and they were offended by it, because that is personal.
The opinions of someone of a religious leaning, on the other hand, affect me not in the slightest, because whatever they think isn’t something I have any involvement in, therefore it’s meaningless to me.
I hope that isn’t too convoluted, I’m drinking a nice Islay, so I might be getting slightly befuddled. 😀

If the religious waited until people were adults and could make up their own mind that would be different.
They wouldn’t do that though because religion would cease to exist.

Actually, most of the aspects of religion which people find distateful and most of the ideas that Dawkins argues against are those of evangelical and ‘ born again’ type churches, so yeah, they would exist but just the most wat out ones.

grum – Member

I find it kind of insulting that ‘some’ religious people think the very fact that they have religion and I don’t makes them morally superior/better people, and that I am a wicked unrepentant sinner bound for hell.

grum – Member

I’m not sure what you consider to be ‘choice’ for a child, but a combination of brainwashing and considerable social pressure isn’t what I think of as ‘choice’.

When you were a child you were told that you were “a wicked unrepentant sinner bound for hell” ?

Here in the UK ?

I don’t believe you.

Have you got any other better arguments to back up your ranting militant atheism ?

Well at the time I wouldn’t have walked out because I suppose I (sort of) believed. But yes it was shoved down my throat. I could have made a fuss and refused to attend any religious services or assemblies where hymns and prayers were used I suppose but that’s quite a bold step for a child (who’s been indoctrinated).

I opted out of all Religious aspects of my Catholic Grammar School (and I was taught by Nuns for the most part as it was, and still is, a Convent)

It wasn’t difficult, and was accepted without any issues at all. I had previously been to a Catholic Primary and parents are Irish Catholics. So I suppose you could say I had been “indoctrinated”

I don’t see it that way at all though, I just think I had an upbringing that taught how to treat other people and how to know right from wrong.

I can’t really believe (actually yes I can, this is STW) that people are arguing that religion doesn’t claim to have a moral high ground, and that sinners will burn in hell, despite direct quotes from religious texts/leaders etc saying exactly that.

Some people would really try and make out black is white. 😕

Saying I have ‘raging militant atheism’ is pretty pathetic, given that if you read a few pages back I was talking about some of the positive aspects of religion.

When you were a child you were told that you were “a wicked unrepentant sinner bound for hell” ?

You’ll have to point out where I actually said that? You’ve taken two different posts and stuck them together, and made a big fat straw man out of them.

I’d just like religion to be subject to the same rules everyone else is bound by, that’s my main problem with it.

When you were a child you were told that you were “a wicked unrepentant sinner bound for hell”

I actually was by one of my teachers and a mate of mine was called a heathen by the head teacher when he did under-16 work experience as a classroom assistant in a Catholic school.

I actually was by one of my teachers and a mate of my was called a heathen by the head teacher when he did under-16 work experience as a classroom assistant in a Catholic school.

By one of your teachers ? The suggestion here was that it was part of an indoctrination process, not the work of an individual.

.

Saying I have ‘raging militant atheism’ is pretty pathetic

The term used was actually ranting militant atheism. So anyway, have you got any other better arguments to back up your ranting militant atheism ? I’m guessing no ?

I can’t really believe (actually yes I can, this is STW) that people are arguing that religion doesn’t claim to have a moral high ground (and that sinners will burn in hell) despite direct quotes from religious texts/leaders etc saying exactly that.

I’m not claiming that religion doesn’t imbue some people with moral superiority. I just can’t believe that someone would get so upset by the perceived moral authority of someone with a belief system which he has clearly rejected.

As for the amount of times a teacher said to me something along the lines of “Darcy, you little shit, you’re going to rot in hell!”…well, I’ve lost count.

This deserves an answer: Pretty straightforward. Neither you nor I believe you are a ****, however I suspect both of us would feel pretty insulted if someone walked up to you and called you that. Same principle really.

That’s not really the same.

It’s possible that I could be a ****. Although I don’t think I am.

A situation exists where it could be true, and I am aware of that.

But Hell doesn’t exist, so I can’t be offended or upset that someone tells me I could end up there.
No more than I would be upset by being told I am going to Narnia if I don’t do the washing up.

The term used was actually ranting militant atheism. So anyway, have you got any other better arguments to back up your ranting militant atheism ? I’m guessing no ?

Have you got any better ones than inventing things I didn’t say and then calling me a liar for saying them? 🙂

I’m betting no.

I’m not claiming that religion doesn’t imbue some people with moral superiority. I just can’t believe that someone would get so upset by the perceived moral authority of someone with a belief system which he has clearly rejected.

Really not that upset about it at all. But it would bother me a lot less if religion didn’t still enjoy special privileges in our society.

But Hell doesn’t exist, so I can’t be offended or upset that someone tells me I could end up there.
No more than I would be upset by being told I am going to Narnia if I don’t do the washing up.

As I already said, bit different when millions of people believe it, and some of them hold positions of power and influence, and they are teaching it to children.

You had teachers calling you a “little shit” DD ? What country was that – the UK or Ireland ?

For the record, every school I went to, infant, primary, and secondary, was catholic, quite devout catholic at that. Not once do I ever recall being told that I was “a wicked unrepentant sinner bound for hell”. All the more surprising when you consider the fact that I was often in considerable trouble at school.

Just for clarity..

Whilst I in no way think this is going to happen essentially they are saying to me that the way I live my life is so morally wrong that I will be punished for it when I die and in a quite unpleasant way.
…
So, has anyone actually said this to you

So, has anyone actually said this to you?

Yes, I’ve heard it in several sermons during my religious indoctrination as a child, and it’s very prevalent in religious literature (some of which gets shoved through my door or handed to me by visiting Jehovah’s Witnesses), as well as the shouty men with signs in the street in my local town centre.

That’s nice ernie. No-one else has said that happened to them as a child either, but do carry on.

Wallace (page 3), thank you so much for the excellent advice. I am so glad I followed it. Thanks also to Cougar, an “enlightening” explanation of moderation.

grum – Member

Have you got any better ones than inventing things I didn’t say

I simply copied and pasted what you wrote. There was no “inventing”.

Grum said

I find it kind of insulting that ‘some’ religious people think the very fact that they have religion and I don’t makes them morally superior/better people, and that I am a wicked unrepentant sinner bound for hell. I don’t see the relevance of whether I believe in hell or not.

What we need to know is who thought this and how you knew

Ah the point JY. Yes, I often miss the point. The point behind this little beauty is a complete mystery to me

“Can’t opt out of having to wear a motorcycle helmet even though someone else gets away with a turban can you? (well, you can, but you may be imprisoned)”
no idea who said this but it was not me so no idea why you asked me.

I don’t believe you.

Have you got any other better arguments to back up your ranting militant atheism ?
oh ernie i have missed you – the insights though not this trying to get a reaction stuff
lying ranter 🙄

I just can’t believe that someone would get so upset by the perceived moral authority of someone with a belief system which he has clearly rejected.

shall i start insulting you from a unionist standpoint till you get the point?
i reject white supremacists but find them offensive etc

if we could just get molly and sfb to do the questions now/join in it would be awesome

night and god bless

Just for the record, I was told, on an almost daily basis in school, that unless I followed the laws of ‘my’ religion and the word of God I would go to Hell.

This concept was introduced at a very young age and constantly reinforced on a regular basis.

My religious education was, by any definition of the word, indoctrination.

no idea who said this but it was not me so no idea why you asked me.

I didn’t ask you. Hence the lack of a question mark 💡

This was the original thing to which I was responding.

Whilst I in no way think this is going to happen essentially they are saying to me that the way I live my life is so morally wrong that I will be punished for it when I die and in a quite unpleasant way.

So, has anyone actually said this to you?

Pretty sure I heard almost exactly that in church on more than one occasion, yes.

I simply copied and pasted what you wrote. There was no “inventing”.

I never said I was called an unrepentant sinner as a child, which is what you claimed and called me a liar for saying. 🙄

i reject white supremacists but find them offensive etc

You really need to stop going to those meetings.

I never said I was called an unrepentant sinner as a child

Don’t be coy, when did it happen?

Just for the record, I was told, on an almost daily basis in school, that unless I followed the laws of ‘my’ religion and the word of God I would go to Hell.
This concept was introduced at a very young age and constantly reinforced on a regular basis.
It was, by any definition of the word,

So ernie, going to call him a liar too or just invent some spurious pedantic argument as to why you’re still right?

Why are you posting under two logins btw?

C’mon grum, when did it appen?

So ernie, going to call him a liar too

I decide what I choose to believe or not believe. Isn’t that what this thread is about ?

BTW I haven’t called anyone a liar. You must be mistaken. Or lying.

I could have made a fuss and refused to attend any religious services or assemblies where hymns and prayers were used I suppose but that’s quite a bold step for a child (who’s been indoctrinated).

That’s exactly the way I handled it. Must’ve been a bold child, eh.

What stopped you from taking similar steps, Grum…? Genuinely intrigued.

What stopped you from taking similar steps, Grum…? Genuinely intrigued.

He actually believed it.

Well, yes, that’s what I was thinking, though I’d rather he wrote that with his own fingers…

Count Zero

I’m drinking a nice Islay, so I might be getting slightly befuddled.

And may your God go with you…… 🙂

BTW I haven’t called anyone a liar. You must be mistaken. Or lying.

so you say you dont believe them but you are not saying they are lying

it guff like this that, i assume, has lead to you being warned.

you are contributing little here [shame as you can be insightful if you choose to be] and just trying to get a rise from folk then have a bs semantic pin dance with them.
perhaps you and cm could just e-mail each other and save us from this as you both seem to enjoy doing this?
i prefer folk saying what they mean rather than being mean with what they say

you are contributing little here

Well I could never compete with you JY. Your ability to dissect every minute detail of someone’s post and provide a meticulous critique of each sentence they have posted, is truly remarkable.

For your information I didn’t set out make a significant contribution to this thread, I never do on religious threads. And it would have been even smaller if you had ignored me 💡

I went to Christchurch and had what can be described as a pretty religious upbringing, I was a Chorister and later a Thurifer and know my way around the bible pretty well. I’m confirmed and can take the sacrament. I met lovely people through the church, my vicar was a great guy and I benefited from his advocacy in getting a scholarship, my mother was Orthodox Greek and took the whole god thing pretty seriously.

So all in all, great eh? Totally, except it’s not true, the whole thing is essentially based on a big lie. Realising this in my early teens made me a bit cross really and I have been angry at religion ever since. Finding out the beliefs you have been taught by everyone you’ve trusted are a crock of shite is a bad experience.

Prety sure that refuted my point ernie what with an ad hominem and and yet another attempt to get a rise.
Like i said you can be insightful or you can do this.

ernie_lynch – Member

you are contributing little here

Well I could never compete with you JY. Your ability to dissect every minute detail of someone’s post and provide a meticulous critique of each sentence they have posted, is truly remarkable.

I thought he was doing a pretty good job of being ernie, during ernie’s recent absence.

🙂