Tolerating religion is just bad as partaking.

We won’t eradicate the meme through appeasement….

Mind you, I just gave the Vatican €35 for a tour of their museums the other weekend, so that was a bit of an own goal….

I don’t know, what about it?

It’s one of those beliefs which impacted others but the church’s teachings and actions were largely at odds with the populace

People’s intolerance towards other people beliefs is pretty shocking.

Yes, nice try. 🙄

It ISN’T ‘intolerance towards other people beliefs’ though is it, it’s intolerance towards the horrors that those people insist on inflicting on others in the name of their beliefs.

It ISN’T ‘intolerance towards other people beliefs’ though is it, it’s intolerance towards the horrors that those people insist on inflicting on others in the name of their beliefs.

Those beliefs are various, only some of them are religious.

But i take it then that you are quite tolerant of the majority of christians who don’t inflict horros on others.

Completely agree with CharlieMungus
🙂

I rode my bike twice today. Beautiful morning and glorious sun set. It was a 29er rigid steel s/s. Oranges are not the only fruit 😉

People’s intolerance towards other people beliefs is pretty shocking.

I know imagine thinking i can claim that my beliefs handed to me in a book directly as the word of god allows me to tell folk who dont believe in god how to behave. Imagine i then want those beliefs to violate law [ like say discriminate against gay folk] but I still try to impose it on them anyway and make them life how I think they should.

What is worse is that sometimes when i do this those intoilerant bastards object …that is heathesns for you though

TBH when they ask for tolerance what they tend to mean is the right to impose thier standards on others usually when it is at odds with the majority view

its not like we are saying its an abhomination to be religios , that it should be banned as it offends me etc. This is the crux for me. They/anyone can believe any crazy old crap they want but when they try and imnpose it on me or others who dont believe i think we are perfectly entitiled to tell them to **** off

They/anyone can believe any crazy old crap they want but when they try and imnpose it on me

Does this happen often?

footflaps – Member

Never underestimate the power of fear and ignorance…

I think you’re mixing up the Pope with a Paranoia GM.

iirc the religious can be a bit “preachy”

Does this happen often?

At the risk of repeating myself; same-sex marriage laws?

At the risk of repeating myself; same-sex marriage laws?

Sorry Cougar, had not realised you were gay.
I will then bow to your greater experience on this subject.

You know those smiley things (no,not Jehovah’s witnesses, those emoticon things) ?. A yawning one, scratching its knackers, would be ideal for threads like this. Give it a bloody rest, please.

At the risk of repeating myself; same-sex marriage laws?

Go on, repeat yourself – I missed what said previously.

What about same-sex marriage laws ? My understanding was that the House of Commons recently voted in favour.

Junkyard – iirc the religious can be a bit “preachy”

Good god, man, d’you ever sit back and read the majority of your posts on this forum…

Edit : Just in case you have a humour fail – 😛

You know those smiley things (no,not Jehovah’s witnesses, those emoticon things) ?. A yawning one, scratching its knackers, would be ideal for threads like this. Give it a bloody rest, please.

If only someone would invent a device that would let you avoid reading them.

Hoist by my own pet toad 😀

Hoisted up by one’s own petard- I think i would have got it 😀

I dont expect to make folk follow my rules though it goes without saying the world would be a better place if they did 😉

It is odd how folk open a topic they have no interest in simply to say this

Sorry Cougar, had not realised you were gay.
I will then bow to your greater experience on this subject.

Wait, what, you can’t object to injustices unless you are directly affected now? You were the one talking about slavery a minute ago.

Or is that because Junkyard used the word “me”? Only that’s selective editing on your part if so, he said “me or others.”

Edit – just realised you weren’t even referring to me. Hey ho.

Nah junkyard, just skimmed it. The point I was trying to make (and to be honest, I wasn’t that serious) is that religion threads on here are a bit, well, frequent (crap way of putting it I know) and tend to go on forever. 😐
Edit – no idea what that one (the smiley thing) means.

Wait, what, you can’t object to injustices unless you are directly affected now?

I think you can, though there are some who think that being offended on the part of others is a bit hand wringy

But the specific question i asked was about people trying ‘to impose it on me’ rather than people/ groups i know.

It’s not selctive editing. I’m aware of when these views are imposed on other people.

Nah junkyard, just skimmed it. The point I was trying to make (and to be honest, I wasn’t that serious) is that religion threads on here are a bit, well, frequent (crap way of putting it I know) and tend to go on forever

Proper skimmed as I was not commenting on you

I am aware of your views and treatments on these threads and yes you are not wrong
FWIW my view on religion is different from my view on the religious and how they act- I would never speak like this to someone devout tbh.
IME individual religious folk tend to try to live good lives, helping others and being basically sound rather than preaching to me “firebrand” intolerant religious views. This includes the happy clappy and the devout Muslims I know
Likewise I dont preach to them either but find common ground about caring about stuff etc

I still don’t know what that smiley meant…

I’d love to get involved but it’s the last day of the Month so I’m supposed to be busy.

The Church is the largest single provider of healthcare and education in the world, working especially in some of the poorest countries where there is no other care available. (Catholic church that is. Adding Evangelical church schools/hospitals means there is no close second provider.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role_of_the_Catholic_Church_in_Western_civilization#Education

• The Church pioneered modern Social Work. Eg: Jane Addams
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_social_work
Jane Addams was the first American woman to be awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. Also co-founded the first settlement house in the US. The Settlement Movement sought to bridge the gap between rich and poor in society: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Settlement_house
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jane_Addams

• London Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children (London SPCC)
After campaigning from SPCC and the wider Church, the UK’s first ever law to protect children from abuse and neglect came into being. See Lord Shaftsbury , Rev B. Waugh
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Society_for_the_Prevention_of_Cruelty_to_Children#History

• Save the Children. This large relief agency was founded by Eglantyne Jebb who also campaigned for social reform in this area. The Declaration of the Rights of the Child was adopted by the League of Nations. She also pioneered the Child Sponsorship program.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eglantyne_Jebb

• Camillus de Lellis – founder of the original “Red Cross”
Thus De Lellis established the Order of Clerks Regular, Ministers to the Sick (abbreviated as M.I.), better known as the Camillians. His experience in wars led him to establish a group of health care workers who would assist soldiers on the battlefield. This was the original Red Cross, hundreds of years before the International Red Cross Organization was formed.
Members of the Order also devoted themselves to victims of Bubonic plague. A perilous work that no-one else seemed to want to do.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camillus_de_Lellis#Founder

• Clara Barton – founder and first president of the American Red Cross
She was a pioneer American teacher, patent clerk, nurse, and humanitarian. At a time when relatively few women worked outside the home, Barton built a career helping others. One of her greatest accomplishments was founding the American Red Cross. This organization helps victims of war and disasters. She hoped to be a pioneer for women in service to her country. She was probably the first woman to hold a government job.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clara_Barton

• Action for Children. Pioneered the first “Children’s Homes”. (top 20 biggest charities in the UK)
Its mission statement asserts that it is committed to helping the most vulnerable and neglected children and young people break through injustice, deprivation and inequality. The charity works with over 50,000 children and young people whose families need support, who are in care, who are disabled or who experience severe difficulties in their lives through 480 projects, services and schools. It also promotes social justice through research and by lobbying and campaigning for change. Founded by Methodist minister Thomas Bowman Stephenson (1839-1912) who was “moved by the fate of street children in London.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_for_Children

• Barnardo’s homes – world’s largest orphanage system. Founded by Thomas John Barnardo.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_John_Barnardo

• Churches were the first orphanages
In the High Middle Ages, abandoning unwanted children finally eclipsed infanticide. Unwanted children were left at the door of church or abbey, and the clergy was assumed to take care of their upbringing. This practice also saw the birth of the first orphanages.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infanticide

• From Roman times, advocacy against infanticide and polygamy etc.
Early Church Fathers advocated against polygamy, abortion, infanticide, child abuse…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role_of_the_Catholic_Church_in_Western_civilization#Roman_Empire

• Strengthening of marriage from Roman times
Church teaching heavily influenced the legal concept of marriage. During the Gregorian Reform, the Church developed and codified a view of marriage as a sacrament.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role_of_the_Catholic_Church_in_Western_civilization#Roman_Empire

• Protection of young people in our society: English Factory reform bill and anti-poor movement,- Richard Oastler
http://www.christianhistorytimeline.com/DAILYF/2002/09/daily-09-29-2002.shtml
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Oastler

• Campaign for the protection of children from abuse. Passionate Christian Josephine Butler campaigned for the age of consent to be set and was a key figure in other social reforms.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephine_Butler

• Care for the elderly and disabled in society. Christians birthed Almshouse institutions as early as the 10th century. Conditions in these Almshouses were not always good and there was a social stigma attached to them, however, Almshouses did their best to serve the local community with the little resources they had and cared for those who were abandoned by society. They were the forerunner of nursing homes and hospitals. They sought to provide care for those who were no longer able to work. Almshouses are still active today with some 2,600 in the UK alone.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Almshouse

• Impact on language, literature and culture
The Authorized Version of the Bible has been called “the most influential version of the most influential book in the world, in what is now its most influential language”, “the most important book in English religion and culture”, and “the most celebrated book in the English-speaking world”.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authorized_King_James_Version#Influence

• Impact on civil liberties
The Magna Carta is considered one of the most important documents in human history; vitally important as an early foundation of law in Western society. It is considered the founding document of English liberties and hence American liberties. The influence of Magna Carta can be seen in the United States Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Lord Denning described it as “the greatest constitutional document of all times – the foundation of the freedom of the individual against the arbitrary authority of the despot”. The man responsible for drafting it’s content was Stephen Langton (Archbishop of Canterbury). Various “Barons” were also implicated in the construction of the Magna Carta, but Stephen Langton is believed to be the central architect.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Langton
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magna_Carta

• Impact on civil liberties
Rev.Martin Luther King Jr., a man of great courage and faith who was at the centre of the civil rights movement. He continued despite attempts on his life including a fire bomb attack on his family home. In 1964, King became the youngest person to receive the Nobel Peace Prize for his work to end racial segregation and racial discrimination through civil disobedience and other nonviolent means. His father and grandfather were both ordained ministers. The U.S. have declared the 3rd Monday in January to be an annual public holiday in his honour. Written on his memorial are the concluding words from his “I have a dream speech”: “”Free at last! Free at last! Thank God Almighty, we are free at last!”
http://www.biography.com/people/martin-luther-king-jr-9365086
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_King,_Jr.

• Prison reform. The Quakers pioneered prison reform during the Victorian age. Suggested basic human rights for prisoners and teaching prisoners a trade etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_reform#United_Kingdom
Today, Prison Fellowship International (amongst other Christian ministries) works around the globe in prisons to help reform and rehabilitate prisoners:
http://www.pfi.org/media-and-news/news/copy16_of_index_html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison_Fellowship_International

• The 7th Earl of Shaftsbury was inspired by his faith to do many things.
He became a Tory MP (Member of Parliament) in 1826, and almost immediately became a leader of the movement for factory reform. He was responsible for promoting a plethora of reform causes, including the Factory Acts of 1847 and 1853, the Ten Hour Bill, as well as the Mines and Collieries Act 1842 and the Lunacy Act 1845. One of his chief interests was the welfare of children, and he was chairman of the Ragged Schools Union and a keen supporter of Florence Nightingale. He was also involved as patron and president in the field of model dwellings companies, which sought to improve the housing of working classes in England.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Ashley-Cooper,_7th_Earl_of_Shaftesbury

• Braille worldwide system used by blind and visually impaired people.
Louis Braille was an innovator. Lying on his deathbed he said, “God was pleased to hold before my eyes the dazzling splendors of eternal hope…” His system is now used on a worldwide basis.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Braille
http://74.84.206.112/ChurchHistory/11630360/

• Pioneering free or low cost health care for the terminally ill in our society dying of cancer.
Macmillan nurses. Douglas Macmillan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Macmillan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macmillan_Cancer_Support#History
Rose Hawthorne Lathrop created the first homes/treatment centers for cancer patients in the US. St. Rose’s Free Home for Incurable Cancer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rose_Hawthorne_Lathrop

• Promotion of International fair trade for the poorest societies in the world. Tearfund.
Trade justice movement, Make Poverty History. Richard Adams OBE.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Adams_%28Traidcraft%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tearfund

• Habitat for Humanity, one of the largest charities in the US which internationally provides housing for the poor. Founder Millard Fuller
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millard_Fuller

• Shelter – one of the UK’s biggest charities dedicated to ministry amongst the homeless.
Shelter is a registered charity that campaigns to end homelessness and bad housing in England and Scotland. It gives advice, information and advocacy to people in need, and tackles the root causes of bad housing by lobbying government and local authorities for new laws and policies to improve the lives of homeless and badly housed people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelter_%28charity%29

• Salvation Army,- disaster relief, homeless missions, charity shops, caring for poor and downtrodden in many different countries. In 1994, the Chronicle of Philanthropy, an industry publication, released the results of the largest study of charitable and non-profit organization popularity and credibility. The study showed that The Salvation Army was ranked as the 4th “most popular charity/non-profit in America” of over 100 charities researched with 47% of Americans over the age of 12 choosing Love and Like A Lot for The Salvation Army. Charity Watch rates the Salvation Army an “A-” to an “A”.Founder William Booth
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Booth

• Leprosy Missions. Dr. Paul Wilson Brand was a pioneer in developing tendon transfer techniques for use in the hands of those with leprosy. He spent 19 years serving in India. During his career, Dr. Brand received many awards and honors. He was awarded the Hunterian professorship of the Royal College of Surgeons in 1952 etc…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Wilson_Brand
Leprosy Mission International has over 130 years experience working with people that are considered “untouchable” in some societies. Founded by Wellesley Bailey in the 1860s.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wellesley_Bailey
http://www.leprosymission.org/

• Kenneth L. Pike – World renowned linguist
Working for Wycliffe Bible translators, K.L. Pike became one of the worlds leading linguists with significant contributions to the field. His book “Phonetics”, “revolutionized the thinking in the field” according to Prof. Eric Hamp. Hamp continues,” It is fair to say that something like one half of all the raw data from exotic languages that has been placed at the disposal of theoretical linguists in the past quarter century can be attributed to the influence, and efforts of Kenneth Pike.” He originated the Tagmemics theory.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Lee_Pike

• Dr. Carl Becker – Missionary Doctor and Leprosy expert
News of Dr. Beckers compassion spread and literally thousands of lepers sought out his help. By the early 1950s he was treating some four thousand resident patients on an eleven hundred acre property. Leprosy specialists worldwide also visited to learn from him, even the world’s leading expert Dr. Robert Cochrane of Cambridge University was impressed with his findings. He lived in hostile conditions in the Congo, Africa where other people might not care to go.
http://www.dacb.org/stories/congo/becker_carl.html

• Sight to the blind. Dr. Victor C Rambo was a passionate Christian who could have made a lot of money as a doctor in the US. Instead he lived in India where he “worked from dawn ‘til dusk” operating on cataracts where little or no other help was available. Literally thousands of patients were helped through his ministry who would have otherwise been left seriously visually impaired or gone blind.
http://www.philadelphia-reflections.com/blog/695.htm
http://www.amazon.com/Apostle-Sight-Victor-Surgeon-Indias/dp/0915684543

• Ministry to young people in our society – YMCA founded in 1844. Nobel Peace Prize winners. John Mott: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Mott
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YMCA
Founded by George Williams:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Williams_%28YMCA%29

• World Vision, 1950 – child sponsorship, one of largest relief and development agencies in the US. Founded by Dr. Robert Pierce
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Pierce

• Samaritans Purse. Humanitarian organisation reaching those suffering in war, poverty, famine, disease and disaster. Franklin Graham
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samaritan%27s_Purse

• Education UK. An overwhelming number of early education establishments were Christian before the State took over.
http://www.jstor.org/pss/1050784
•In the UK, faith schools (Christian and Jewish) dominate the league table of performance. Two thirds of the 50 best ­performing institutions were Church of England, Roman Catholic or Jewish. This comes despite the fact that faith schools account for only one in every three schools.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1338725/Faith-schools-leading-way-dominate-league-tables.html

• Lech Wa??sa. Devout Christian and charismatic president of Poland 1990-95. World renowned human rights activist. Winner of numerous international awards including the Nobel Peace prize 1983 and awarded over 30 honorary doctorates from universities worldwide. Co-founder of Solidarity, the Soviet bloc’s first independent trade union.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lech_Wa%C5%82%C4%99sa

• Dr. Ida Scudder – Missionary Doctor to India
Dedicated her life to womens health in India. Her reputation was so high that women and girls used to seek her out just to touch her. Doctors all over India sent their most difficult gynecological cases to her. She became so well known that a letter simply addressed “To: Dr. Ida, India” reached her in a country of over three hundred million people. In 1918, she started one of Asia’s foremost teaching hospitals.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ida_S._Scudder

• David Bussau AM (born November 10, 1940) is a pioneer of microfinance, having founded Opportunity International Australia and co-founded the Opportunity International Network. He has been hailed for his innovative approach to solving world poverty by challenging the conventional wealth distribution model of development, addressing the root causes of poverty through responsible wealth creation. According to the World Bank, micro-enterprise has proven to be one of the most effective and sustainable ways to solve poverty.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Bussau

• Rev. Thomas Hopkins Gallaudet, LL.D., (December 10, 1787 – September 10, 1851) was a renowned American pioneer in the education of the deaf. He co-founded and raised funds for the first institution for the education of the deaf in North America. For many years he was principal of that institution. His son Edward Miner Gallaudet (1837–1917) founded in 1864 the first college for the deaf which in 1986 became Gallaudet University.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Hopkins_Gallaudet

• Charles Loring Brace (June 19, 1826 in Litchfield, Connecticut – August 11, 1890) was a contributing philanthropist in the field of social reform. He is considered a father of the modern foster care movement and was most renowned for starting the Orphan Train movement of the mid-19th century, and for founding The Children’s Aid Society.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Loring_Brace

• Despite being crippled himself, John Pounds (1766-1839) was the man most responsible for the creation of the concept of “Ragged Schools” (charitable schools dedicated to the free education of destitute children). Working in the poorest districts, teachers initially utilised stables, lofts, and railway arches for their classes. The success of the Ragged Schools definitively demonstrated that there was a demand for education among the poor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Pounds

• Robert Raikes (“the Younger”) (14 September 1736 – 5 April 1811) was an English philanthropist and Anglican layman, noted for his promotion of Sunday schools. Pre-dating state schooling and by 1831 schooling 1,250,000 children, they are seen as the first schools of the English state school system.
The movement started with a school for boys in the slums.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Raikes

• Friedrich Wilhelm August Fröbel (or Froebel) (April 21, 1782 – June 21, 1852) laid the foundation for modern education based on the recognition that children have unique needs and capabilities. He developed the concept of the “kindergarten”, and also coined the word now used in German and English.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friedrich_Fr%C3%B6bel

• Supporting mothers and families worldwide – The Mothers’ Union (founded 1876)
Mothers’ Union is an international Christian charity that seeks to support families worldwide. It main aim is to support marriage and family life, especially through times of adversity.
Particularly concerned with the plight of women in the world, its projects include literacy and development, parenting, micro finance and campaigning against violence against women and the trafficking of women. The Mothers’ Union is part of Make Poverty History and the Jubilee Debt Coalition.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mothers%27_Union

• Pioneering education for women. Mary Lyon 1797-1849.
She valued socioeconomic diversity and endeavored to make the seminary affordable for students of modest means.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Lyon

• Thomas Cogan. Humane Society. A humane society is a group that aims to stop human or animal suffering due to cruelty or other reasons, although in many countries, it is now used mostly for societies for the prevention of cruelty to animals (SPCAs). In the United Kingdom, it may also be a society that provides a waterways rescue, prevention, and recovery service, or that gives awards for the saving of human life (see: Royal Humane Society).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Cogan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Humane_Society

• Royal Society for the prevention of cruelty to Animals founded by Christians (William Wilberforce). It is the oldest and largest animal welfare organisation in the world and is one of the largest charities in the UK.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Society_for_the_Prevention_of_Cruelty_to_Animals

• One of the largest international literacy organisations in the world, SIL International, brings literacy to thousands of the world’s poorest language communities.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIL_International

• Frank Laubach. Committed Christian and pioneer of world literacy. Known as the “Apostle to the Illiterates” the programs he developed have been used to teach about 60 million people to read their own language. He was deeply concerned about poverty, injustice and illiteracy, and considered them barriers to peace in the world.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Laubach

• Food for the Poor. Since 1982, Food for the Poor has distributed more than $8.2 billion worth of food, medicine, housing materials,water and other aid to the poor of the Caribbean and Latin America
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_for_the_Poor

• Meeting the needs of children in poverty-stricken areas. Mission Of Mercy
http://missionofmercy.org/home/index.cfm?flash=1

• George Mueller – orphanages and education
Mueller took no salary for himself. By 1870 his orphanages had multiplied and they were caring for two thousand children. He was well-known for providing an education to the children under his care, to the point where he was accused by some of “raising the poor above their natural station in life.”
http://74.84.206.112/ChurchHistory/11630420/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_M%C3%BCller

Pioneering International orphan care. Amy Wilson Carmichael
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amy_Carmichael

• Dr. Helen Rosevere – missionary doctor to the Congo
Dr. Rosevere, a single missionary woman started a medical mission in the Nebobongo area of the Congo. She trained national workers and invested a lot of time and energy into caring for local people. She stayed on in Congo through politically unsettling times and suffered much abuse at the hands of rebels (beatings and rape). Incredibly, despite this she endured and courageously returned to Congo to continue her mission work.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helen_Roseveare

• Jackie Pullinger MBE (born 1944) is a British Protestant Christian charismatic missionary to Hong Kong and founder of the St Stephen’s Society. She has been ministering in Hong Kong since 1966. Her work has resulted in at least 500 drug addicts being saved from their drug addictions. The early years of her Hong Kong ministry are chronicled in the book Chasing the Dragon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackie_Pullinger

• Christian Aid. Christian Aid is one of the biggest international development agencies in the world. It was formed and is still supported by the major Christian churches in the British Isles. Its headquarters are in London. It works with local partner organizations in over 70 countries around the world to help the world’s poorest communities. Christian Aid states it works where the need is greatest, regardless of religion, nationality or race.
Trade Justice
Development projects
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Aid

• Education US. Out of the initial 110 universities started in the US, 100 had Christian foundations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_education_in_the_United_States

• Temperance Movement to address the abuse of alcohol in society.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temperance_movement#Temperance_movement_by_country

• Pioneering surgery on infants. Dr. C. Everett Koop. Koop performed groundbreaking surgical procedures on conjoined twins, invented techniques which today are commonly used for infant surgery, and saved the lives of countless children who otherwise might have been allowed to die.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._Everett_Koop#Career

• Michael Faraday. Contributed extensively to the fields of Electromagnetism and Electrochemistry.
Known as “one of the most influential scientists in history. Historians of science refer to him as the best experimentalist in the history of science.” Discovered Benzene, invented early form of Bunsen Burner.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Faraday

• Alcoholics Anonymous helps 2 million people. It’s emergence was inspired by the Christian “Oxford Group”.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoholics_Anonymous#Oxford_Group_beginnings
Co-founder Bill claimed a dramatic spiritual experience of God.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_W.#A_spiritual_program_for_recovery
Co-founder Dr. Bob Smith said that AA’s basic ideas came from their study of the Bible; the Steps, in essence meant “love and service.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Smith_%28doctor%29
Narcotics Anonymous is also based on the above mentioned 12-step program.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcotics_Anonymous

• Pioneers of professional nursing and caring. The first official nurses’ training program, the Nightingale School for Nurses, opened in 1860. The mission of the school was to train nurses to work in hospitals, work with the poor, and to teach. Florence Nightingale “the mother of modern nursing”. She said that God had called her just before her 17th birthday. Although later in life it is said that she wrote a document questioning the divinity of Christ, so it it unsure if she held to an orthodox Christian theology at that time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florence_Nightingale

• Amnesty International. Justice and liberty for oppressed people all over the world.
Started in 1961 by two Christians Peter Beneson and Eric Baker.
Nobel Peace prize 1977 for campaign against torture.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amnesty_International#History

• (UK) Recent research showed that 81% of evangelical Christians do some kind of voluntary work at least once a month. This compares with a much lower figure of 26% for the population at large, obtained in citizenship surveys by the Department for Communities and Local Government, and is consistent with comparable differences identified by researchers in North America.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/belief/2011/mar/17/christians-big-society-voluntary-work
Similar results were confirmed through a five-year study by the political scientists David Campbell and Robert Putman.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/forum/2010-11-15-column15_ST_N.htm

• Oxfam was one of the pioneers of modern famine relief. It works to address famine and injustice on a worldwide scale. Founded by Quaker Christians in Oxford in 1942.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxfam

Debra Green OBE – founder of Redeeming Our Communities
Since 2003 Debra has been National Director of Redeeming Our Communities or ROC: this charity aims to bring about community transformation by creating strategic partnerships which open up opportunities for crime and disorder reduction and improved community cohesion.
Over the following years, stories of community transformation emerged across the nation, some of which were collected together for Debra’s 2008 book ‘Redeeming Our Communities: 21st Century Miracles of Social Transformation’.
In recognition of her work towards community cohesion, she was awarded an OBE in June 2012
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Debra_Green

THE GOOD WORKS STILL CONTINUE. HERE IS A MORE RECENT SAMPLING:

• People who “do God, do good” – admits British Politician.
Churches alone are providing almost 100 million hours of unpaid volunteer work on social projects a year, up by more than a third in two years, while donations for such work are up by a fifth, it found. Despite the economic situation, church members alone have increased their donations to social action projects by 19 per cent in two years to £342 million.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/9868851/People-who-do-God-do-good-says-Baroness-Warsi.html
Churches step into void in recession-hit Britain.
The scale of Britain’s reliance on churches to meet social needs is set out in a report showing more than half of Anglican parishes run services such as food banks, homework clubs and even street patrols.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/religion/9851254/Churches-stepping-into-void-in-recession-Britain.html

• Kindernothilfe (KNH) is a charity organization and was founded in 1959 by a group of Christians in Duisburg, Germany, in order to help needy children in India. Over time, it has become one of the largest Christian organizations in Europe for children’s aid.
Today it supports more than 580,000 children and young people in 28 countries in Africa, Asia, Latin America and Eastern Europe. KNH aims to give needy children in the poorest countries of the world a chance to a good start in life.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kindernothilfe

• Caritas Internationalis is a confederate of 164 Roman Catholic relief, development and social service organisations operating in over 200 countries and territories worldwide. Collectively and individually their mission is to work to build a better world, especially for the poor and oppressed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caritas_(charity)

• Children of the Nations (COTN) was founded in 1995 and exists to partner with nationals in poverty-stricken areas of the world to provide care for orphaned and destitute children. Operating in Malawi, Sierra Leone, the Dominican Republic, and Uganda, COTN helps nearly 7,000 children on a daily basis. COTN’s stated goal is to “Raise children who transform nations.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Children_of_the_Nations

• Christian Foundation for Children and Aging (CFCA) is a nonprofit sponsorship organization headquartered in Kansas City, Kansas. CFCA was founded by lay Catholic workers acting on the Gospel call to serve the poor. Its Hope for a Family sponsorship program provides basic necessities like food, education, clothing and access to medical care to children and elderly in some of the world’s poorest communities. Today, CFCA sponsors support more than 300,000 children, youth and aging persons in 22 countries
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Foundation_for_Children_and_Aging_(CFCA)

• CORD (Christian Outreach Relief and Development) – New life after conflict CORD is a humanitarian organisation working with displaced people and communities affected by violent conflicts around the world. Established in 1967 and rooted in Christian faith. Located in the UK.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Outreach_for_Relief_%26_Development

• Christians Against Poverty (CAP) is a Christian charitable company in the United Kingdom founded in Bradford, West Yorkshire by John Kirkby in 1996. It is a national organisation specialising in debt counselling for individuals in financial difficulty, including those in need ofbankruptcy or insolvency.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christians_Against_Poverty

• Compassion International is a Christian child sponsorship organization dedicated to the long-term development of children living in poverty around the world. Compassion International, headquartered in Colorado Springs, functions in 26 countries such as Bolivia, Colombia, Mexico, Haiti, Kenya, and India. They also currently help more than 1,200,000 children.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compassion_International

• Cross International Alliance (Cross) is an inter-denominational Christian relief and development organization based in South Florida that provides food, shelter, education, medical care and emergency aid to the poor in over 30 countries across the globe. Cross was recently recognized for its work in Haiti, receiving a $4.8 million grant from the U.S. government for a new program seeking to care for children and families impacted by AIDSin the country. From its headquarters in Pompano Beach, Cross raises millions of dollars through donations each year to fund development programs that target the “poorest of the poor” in developing countries, and it ships millions of dollars worth of humanitarian goods to high-need areas such as Kenya and Nicaragua.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross_International

• Hope UK is a national Christian charity located at 25(f) Copperfield Street, London, England which educates children and young people about drug and alcohol abuse. It began as the Band of Hope in 1847 in Leeds, to teach children the importance and principles of sobriety andteetotalism. In 1855, a national organisation was formed amidst an explosion of Band of Hope work. Meetings were held in churches throughout the UK and included Christian teaching.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hope_UK

• Medair is an international non-governmental organization NGO of humanitarian aid with a stated mission, “to seek out and serve the most vulnerable people affected by crises.” Medair’s core competencies are emergency relief and rehabilitation. Medair lists its values as: hope, compassion, dignity, accountability, integrity, and faith.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medair

• Medical Teams International (formerly Northwest Medical Teams) is a non-profit humanitarian aid and global health organization. Medical Teams International has mobilized 2,000 teams since 1979, shipped $1.3 billion in medical aid since 1986, provided care to 4.5 million people in 53 nations in 2008, sent more than 2,600 volunteers serving annually in its various programs all over the world.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medical_Teams_International

• Mercy Ministries is an international, Evangelical, charismatic, Christian, charitable organization that offers a long-term residential program for young women aged 13–28 who struggle with various “life controlling” issues. In 2008, the top issues that Mercy Ministries reported themselves to be dealing with were: eating disorders (69%), self-harm (60%), sexual abuse (55%), emotional/verbal abuse (55%), depression (55%), chemical dependency (49%), physical abuse (37%) and pregnancy (6%)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercy_Ministries

• The Message Trust is an award-winning Christian charity working to improve the lives of young people in Greater Manchester, UK and beyond through the Eden Network.
Working in schools, in local communities and in prisons, The Message is in contact with around 100,000 young people across Greater Manchester each year. The Message was founded by well-known speaker, author and current chief executive, Andy Hawthorne OBE.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Message_Trust

• Prospects is a Christian charity in the United Kingdom whose aim is to support learning disabled adults, and to enable them to reach their full potential. It was founded in the mid-1970s by David Potter, a Christian minister, who was drawn to the needs of these adults because he and his wife had a daughter with Down’s syndrome.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prospects_(charity)

• Tiny Hands International (THI) is a Christian nonprofit organization dedicated to helping orphaned and abandoned children and fighting sex trafficking in South Asia. Tiny Hands operates through national non-governmental organizations (NGOs) in Nepal, Bangladesh, and India.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiny_Hands_International

• VisionTrust is an international, non-denominational non-profit organization that assists orphanedand impoverished children around the world. The organization works alongside Christian Nationals to help children gain education, nutritional support, medical assistance and spiritual discipleship. VisionTrust works in schools, orphanages, learning centers and medical clinics. They offer child sponsorships, short-term mission trips, and assist churches with educational materials to promote participation in this effort
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VisionTrust

• World Concern is a Christian humanitarian organization that operates relief and development programs in 13 countries, and funds partnership programs in nine other countries. The organization’s mission statement is, “World Concern provides life, opportunity and hope to suffering people around the world, through disaster response and development programs. Motivated by our love of Christ, we bring hope and reconciliation to those we serve, so they may in turn share with others.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Concern

Roadies yesterday

Religion today

What will be the OP’s troll topic for tomorrow?

Helmets? Dogs? Cheeky trails?… Maybe he’ll just go for it and start a 26er/29er thread.

Jesus Dorset (pardon the term), but you don’t have to be religious to do good in the world.

A similar list could be drawn up of all the evil and downright discrimination and abuse that religion has caused throughout the ages, and continues to do.

My pesonal belief is that humans have become so intelligent that they cannot accept that there is nothing else, so cling on to religious “teachings” that there is a greater god and a heaven etc etc. That is why at times of crises people turn to whatever god they have, but alas he/she/it aint there.

There is no shred of scientific eveidence to support any religion whatsoever.

LOL @ Dorest Knob’s rose tinted specs.

I’m not going to bother with a long counter post, but suffice to say you may have overlooked a similarly long list of responsbilities which might include the genocide of the indigenous populations of North and South America, Africa and parts of Asia. Its also entirely possible that more than one of the things you have listed are due to a need originally created by the activities of the church.

Its just not that simple I’m afraid.

you don’t have to be religious to do good in the world.

There is no shred of scientific eveidence to support any religion whatsoever.

That’s good insight.

Since when did working for Dyson become a demonstration of intelligence?

but alas he/she/it aint there.

Stone the blasphemer!

The Pope has said that it just seemed sometimes like God was taking a bit of a snooze. 🙄

That was a very long post and I didn’t read any of it. Despite being busy I’d like to say that for 1800 ish years my atheism would have got me into some very serious trouble and in many parts of the world it still would now. Religious people complaining about a lack of tolerance would be hilarious if it wasn’t so sickening.

I think you can, though there are some who think that being offended on the part of others is a bit hand wringy

We seem to be seeing this little gem about ‘being offended on someone else’s behalf’ and use of the term ‘handwringing’ lot on here lately. It’s usually a good indicator that someone has no actual argument.

Were the slavery abolitionists just offended on behalf of the slaves, and ‘handwringing’ then?

And in general, religion asking for tolerance actually means ‘we want to keep the special status we’ve had for hundreds of years’.

Please can I make a suggestion? It’s Lent – ok that is not relevant to some/many/most on here – but let’s consider one of the things that those of faith associate with Lent ie, giving up something. Can we not give up these tiresome religious threads until Easter at least (yes, I accept the irony in choosing a religious festivals in this suggestion). As others have said their frequency is beating anti-roadies, wheel size, tyre choice and other repetitive genres! The same arguments are rehashed and frankly there are lots of posts that if related to another subject would properly get banned. So OK, STW towers clearly tolerates religion-bashing and the lack of moderation suggests that it may even encourage it. But surely it’s time to give this all a rest? At best its boring, at worst it verges on the offensive. Either way, they rarely achieve anything other than adding to STWs post count.

Been reading an interesting book recently about willpower – makes some convincing arguments about why being religious is very good for people in terms of self-discipline etc. I do think there is a tendency to ‘throw the baby out with the bath water’ in rejecting everything about religion if you don’t believe in god.

And THM, yes the threads are repetitive and often not that constructive, but why do you want to stifle debate on the topic? Some things just shouldn’t be criticised?

Either way, they rarely achieve anything other than adding to STWs post count.

Sometimes it gets interesting but that’s usually about 15 pages in once the ‘I struggle with long sentences’ crowd have had their say and left.

Edit: I used an abbreviation there but it gets automatically changed now somewhat amusingly

You needn’t participate if you don’t like the content. Some of us enjoy these threads.

THM, can I make a suggestion? If you see religion or any sort of reference to it, simply jog on. Free speach and debate is a wonderful thing. I don’t see anything (in this thread) that warrents being banned (other than my bad grammer and spelling).

The topic had been debated for hundreds of years, with most not making much progress as not a lot has changed. But, I for one occassionally like to see other peoples opinions, although I may or may not agree with them.

So, I am happy if you avoid any sort of religious debate or discussion till after Lent. 🙂

Watching the pope on the news, just find it so bloody weird how many religions around the world can become so big and powerful, all based on faith over fact.

So basically the same as Fox news.

Some of the early tennents of relgigion -(wash your hands – don’t eat pork and shellfish in hot countries, don’t kill anyone) we’re the developed worlds basic health and safety legilation for about 100 years. And there big shiny churches with tales of blood and manna we’re our multiplexes. Doesn’t stop them being an outdated anachronism now though, God is like vampires – it’s been overdone – move on.