There has been more speculation about when society will get rid of bits of metal and paper and convert all currency to 1s and 0s entirely. Out drinking you can easily tap your card for drinks now and chipping in for presents at work people request you tranx them your contrib and it’s so easy with the app on your phone. So what are the pros and cons of such an event in your opinion?

The biggest change is that all money would be traceable and this would have an effect in many various ways. Some of the things I’ve been thinking….

.No more ‘cash in hand’ – tradesmen or just anyone wouldn’t be able to take cash for payment and because of this would not be able to escape paying income tax.

.If all money is traceable then money laundering would be virtually impossible. Currently you could open a launderette for example and just declare the earnings as higher than they actually are. Since you put coins in a machine to wash your clothes you just bank more money than was actually taken, turning dirty money into clean. This wouldn’t be possible in a cashless society.

.Cash could no longer be used for criminal activities, such as the purchasing of drugs or weapons.

.Beggars would have to accept digital payments or stop begging.

.Those tuppeny falls arcades would go out of business. – There has been some discussion about getting rid of 1ps and 2ps, so if this happened they’d all have to move up to 5ps or 10ps. The kids love the tuppeny falls.

Wishing wells would fall into disrepair. And I’d miss that glorious feeling of discovering I have just enough in my pocket for a bag of chips walking home from the pub.

.If all money is traceable then money laundering would be virtually impossible.

Not really, they just use borrowed accounts. Already a big thing in schools etc, persuading some kid to lend a gang their account to launder money through. They’ll always be someone vulnerable whose account they can use.

C and H, not sure how those transactions would happen…

It’s interesting to see how things are changing in America on this.

The (belated) move to chip and pin, along with the headlong rush to contactless payment is making cash increasingly less relevant.

Good for the consumer, bad for staff…

In such a tip reliant economy, people are tipping less and less as they simply don’t have cash to hand.

C and H, not sure how those transactions would happen…

Bitcoin, probably already is…

I suspect small-scale illegal transactions will use a proxy for cash – whatever is seen to keep its value. Probably pogs or conkers.

I’ve been virtually cash-less for a few years now. In fact the only PITA cash-only thing I need to buy is parking at Cwmcarn.

IMHO convenience and technology tends to lead and people follow, not the other way around, no government is going to ‘ban’ cash, although they’ve subtly started to restrict it’s use for all the reasons above.

I think we’ll end up with a slightly more slick, contactless version of PayPal gift for small transactions between people. They’ll have to box clever though, their options will be – allow police to have access to your whole transaction history in the way they can now with your bank records (court order I believe) and accept the ‘underworld’ will create an anonymous sub-economy immediately, or allow small transactions to go unrecorded.

Found that cashless in America was programmed in to suggest tips to be honest CFH. First time there in decades – had the whole card + signature thing, contactless was pretty rare, chip + PIN was kind of working.

But using a card – even for a coffee + a bun – the terminal would ‘suggest’ a tip % – quite often start at 20%, then 22% then 18% – or I guess a custom amount but that was buried.

IMHO convenience and technology tends to lead and people follow, not the other way around, no government is going to ‘ban’ cash, although they’ve subtly started to restrict it’s use for all the reasons above.

Sweden is leading the migration centrally. They developed their own cashless swipe app, issued cards to everyone, ran training programs for the elderly – a fully joined up effort to migrate the whole population.

https://www.europeanpaymentscouncil.eu/news-insights/insight/sweden-cashless-society-and-digital-transformation

The biggest concern is what happens to those that don’t have or cannot get a bank account.

Then there is the issue of every transaction being tracked, our digital footprints are scary enough as it is.

having visited hebden bridge recently and found that no cash machine in a decent radius worked i presumed they were there already 🙂

great for businesses imo.

does it really matter about your digital footprint?

and why couldnt you have an account?

It is programmed in, yes, but my experience is that people aren’t tipping via their cards as much as they did with cash. Hearing this from colleagues in the US as well.

I dislike cash (partly because I keep losing notes) and try not to carry it … £20 max inside my phone case for emergencies, otherwise everything gets paid for by phone or card.
The sooner the ‘can you pay cash’ bunch get stopped the better frankly. I’m sure there’s aspects I haven’t really considered, but that’s my initial feeling.

The biggest concern is what happens to those that don’t have or cannot get a bank account.

The Swedish solution was to issue cards to everyone, so no-one is left out….

comms failure

Power failure

hardwear failure

how many places have the Card carbon copy machines lurking in the drawer and more so know how to use it.

Charity collections via tins would not be possible.

and why couldnt you have an account?

Homeless.

Will the less fortunate have their paper cups replaced by a contacless reader?…

I’d hate to see a cashless society – I love the feel of a wod of cash!

Traceability is a good thing for governments and a bad thing for people.
Same arguments for traceability of all transactions apply as to trace and intercept communications.

It starts as a way to catch pedos, terrorists and now big tax dodgers, and then results in negative consequences for protestors, environmental activists and plumbers (while the actual pedos, terrorists and bankers etc. can afford or develop methods to work around it).

Tracability works if you trust your government, trust that they value liberty and freedom of speech, thought and association, and trust that that will never ever change.

Hands up for that one?

Personally I think that the cashless society is like the paperless office .. anybody seen one yet?

The biggest concern is what happens to those that don’t have or cannot get a bank account.

Legislation was passed post-2007 crash to ensure banks HAVE to issue accounts to everyone, no it doesn’t sadly include exactly everyone as KYC regs mean you need an address, but there are workarounds.

The accounts are actually great if you are a bit anti-banks or just like things simple. You get an account and a debit card, you can’t go over-drawn* and you can’t be charged for anything. You get online banking and can use branches, but no over-draft, no cheques, no ‘free’ travel insurance etc.

In work this week we’re in the process or rebuilding a pile of Laptops donated by a finance company who took them back at the end of a lease from a school. We’re fitting new SSDs and keyboards (most of them missing keys). They’ll be off to the Huggard Center and a few other places to provide Internet access for the homeless, this will allow them to open bank accounts (shelter is providing the address) etc.

Yep the homeless will be even more screwed.

As for bigger digital footprint, that should worry everyone, more opportunities to be hacked etc.

Also the fear of greater state control, even if you live in a benign society today, that’s not a guarantee that some extremist party intent on changing how government and its peoples are run and are controlled in the future.

Anyway we won’t have to worry the Royal mint has a load of 50p’s to get shot of 🙂

jekkyl – I’m not expert but I don’t think all money laundering is done by laundrettes. Hth.

Shove Ha’penny will be confined to the history books…

Charity collections via tins would not be possible.

RNLI are already looking into contactless for their donation collecting.

The sooner we all get chipped the better.
Let’s go full digital and disconnect.

Have not used cash for most of this year, so much easier. See zero need for it for myself, also stops all the family raiding my wallet!

To be honest, I’ve not really missed cash.

We have the option to pay with chip and PIN, contactless or by using a service called Swish to send money to phone numbers or accounts. It all works really well. Given that we also have a means of validating identity that works with [mobile] transactions, it means that most things are a painless, seamless experience.

I like it.

I paid for a meal last week on a card and the staff using the (new) system couldn’t work out how to add a tip… Not great in a business where staff rely on tips.

I’m cashless bar £20 in my Rapha clutch bag in case we end up at a cafe which doesn’t take cards (yet to happen).

It opens the opportunity for payment processors / banks to start to charge you for using the Non-cash. If you view cash as a commodity and not as a token, a business you will then want to make money out of its movement. There will be a race to grab all users and then charge them. Like PayPal does.

Whereas with cash if I give you a fiver, it costs me a fiver and you get a fiver.

Thats great for users, bad for business as its a lost opportunity.

The other point is cash does not rely on other technology to work. You hand me a fiver, in person. Direct from you to me, it does not need fancy tech to verify identity or record the cr/dr etc. All that tech you use on your smartphone may look free, it isn’t. Someone made it and wants to be paid for it. There is no advert on the back of the fiver that you have to look at before you spend it.

It opens the opportunity for payment processors / banks to start to charge you for using the Non-cash.

This can be regulated as are overdraft fees etc.

Yep the homeless will be even more screwed.

You’re probably better setting up a direct debit to Shelter / The Trussel Trust etc rather than just handing out cash on the streets.

bad for business as its a lost opportunity

Are we ignoring the fact that businesses get charged for paying in cash/cheques, and that dealing with cash creates opportunities for errors and costs due to the time taken to handle the cash?

Cash won’t go away any time soon, but it’s relevance will diminish year on year.

You could still have tuppenny falls, would just require buying a tub full of coins/tokens on your way in and exchanging winnings for credit on the way out. Same principle as using casino chips or old pennies in those Victorian amusement arcades.

However, what would people throw in fountains and wishing wells? I can see this idea hasn’t been thoroughly thought through.

Homeless

https://www.fintechmagazine.com/banking/hsbc-supporting-homeless-uk
It’s a step in the right direction at least.

I wouldn’t be able to sleep if we went cashless. Not from worry, but because there would be no padding in my mattress 🙂

The cashless, fully traceable transaction society is something I have been thinking about for a while, but in relationship to a new form of taxation. My idea is to do away with taxation in all forms and replace it with a universal purchase tax. The rates of tax payable on transactions would be capable of being changed easily in relationship to changing needs and trends. So fresh fruit and veggies might attract zero tax to encourage a healthy lifestyle while pizza and coke might be taxed at very high rates. Likewise, a luxury yacht might be taxed really high. And any money taken out of the country, would be taxed on a sliding scale to prevent off-shoring but to allow for some holiday spending cash. It might take a bit of setting up and control but could only function in a cashless society where every penny earned can be traced through the system. I guess it would only really work too if adopted on a global scale but not sure of that.

Many cities in China are already cashless aren’t they and the state can access and monitor your spending and whereabouts if it wishes.Coincidentally I was in my local Post Office this morning and an alleged local drug dealer’s partner came in to deposit a large amount of cash ” I won the line and full house at bingo she loudly declared”

The idea that cashless will reduce money laundering is spurious.
Yep it will stop the waiting staff getting tips they don’t declare or other transactions but it will do nothing for the billions the superrich launder. I very much doubt Ress Mogg is flying over to the IOM to visit Aron with 1/2M of cash in a suitcase… it’s already e-fraudulently transferred

It’s a terrible idea for anyone who wants to ration their spend… and contactless just extends that. You don’t even need to look at the amount.

Traceability is a good thing for governments and a bad thing for people.

That. A friend of mine had her bank account locked by the government (in Germany) because someone else had used a fake number plate on a car that was the same as hers.  She was locked out until it was sorted.  I really dislike the idea of being locked out on the whim of a government.  Of course the bulk of my money is in a bank but I always want to have cash available