• This topic has 275 replies, 97 voices, and was last updated 1 week ago by ajuk.
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  • Cash is dying out – views?
  • Premier Icon mogrim
    Full Member

    The issue is that banks have no intention of providing a service to people they can’t make money out of ie: those at the bottom of society. If they do provide it, they will charge for it, so where on earth is the incentive for the poor to use cashless when they can just use cash?

    So the government tells them to provide the service as a condition of operating. It’s not that complicated, they already have a whole load of obligations to fulfill that cost them money. They could be obliged to provide a charge-free debit account (with no overdraft facility) and online services limited to checking your balance.

    Premier Icon binners
    Full Member

    So the government tells them to provide the service as a condition of operating.

    Can you see this particular government asking, let alone telling, the banks to provide a service to those at the bottom end of society that they won’t make any money out of, and would actually probably cost them to provide?

    No… me neither

    Premier Icon ayjaydoubleyou
    Free Member

    Can you see this particular government asking, let alone telling, the banks to provide a service to those at the bottom end of society that they won’t make any money out of, and would actually probably cost them to provide?

    No… me neither

    If by doing so it removes or greatly reduces the need for minting/printing new cash, and storing, transporting, securing existing cash and destroying worn out cash. Both for the Gov/BoE and the other banks.

    My current account and credit card are with the same bank that my parents dragged me to to open a junior saver when I was at primary school. It came with a nicely finished paying in/statement book, and a plastic money box. That must have cost more than a new peice of plastic with a chip in it every 3 years.
    Why would they not want to grab some future customers?

    Premier Icon binners
    Full Member

    Why would they not want to grab some future customers?

    What are those customers worth to them? Thats all they care about.

    When they gave you your money box, they were potentially giving it to the next Jeff Bezos

    The occupants of most corporate city boardrooms would sooner see benefits claimants used as forced labour, or possibly the foundations for buildings, than provide them with bank accounts

    Premier Icon mogrim
    Full Member

    Can you see this particular government asking, let alone telling, the banks to provide a service to those at the bottom end of society that they won’t make any money out of, and would actually probably cost them to provide?

    No, but then I don’t see cash dying out for at least another 20 years. But I do think it will die out, and in my lifetime.

    Premier Icon ayjaydoubleyou
    Free Member

    What are those customers worth to them? Thats all they care about.

    they are a customer. its the first step to geting them in.

    we’re talking about a card that you use in place of cash. Pay in your wage/benefits, get a card that you can swipe in your local shop/pub/energy meter.

    once they have got one of those, the step up to a proper current account, with the ability to do online shopping, direct debits, a bit of an overdraft etc is a much smaller step. and they are much more likely to go to you rather than a rival bank. (and far cheaper than staffing a building on every local highstreet hoping for walk ins).

    Premier Icon Sandwich
    Full Member

    Some of us could usefully follow Jack Monroe on Twitter and read some of her previous articles at The Guardian site.

    New readers start here, you’ll need a bit of time as it covers 7 and a bit years and you’ll need to winnow out the articles from the recipes.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/10/austerity-poverty-frugality-jack-monroe

    A searing look at the choices the modern day poor in Great Britain are faced with daily (things like am I eating or do the kids stay warm tonight).

    Premier Icon chrispo
    Free Member

    watching the poor starve is many a Tory’s wet dream

    I thought it was watching them get on their bikes and make something of themselves?

    More generally, I just wanted to say that the idea that the poor and the elderly are incapable of using a card or phone to pay for things seems a bit silly when their benefits are paid electronically.

    Premier Icon joeegg
    Free Member

    How are the drug barons and dealers going to manage in a cashless society ? I’d love to see it happen and force some of them around here out of their blacked out Range Rovers and fancy gated properties.

    Premier Icon zilog6128
    Full Member

    How are the drug barons and dealers going to manage in a cashless society ?

    Bitcoin. They’ll be fine.

    Premier Icon binners
    Full Member

    As an aside, while we’re talking about drug dealers, if you want to see the opposite of a cashless society in action then watch the documentary ‘Cocaine Cowboys’ about the more innocent, pre-cartel era of coke smuggling into Miami.

    One Miami branch of the bank of Panama was taking more cash deposits in a day than every other bank branch in America combined, and some guys were buying fleets of Mercs and even Learjets with suitcases full of notes, no questions asked

    Premier Icon andrewh
    Free Member

    To those who keep saying drug dealers will be put out of business by going cashless…
    Bags of the stuff are quite hard to hide during a police raid. And have laundering issues to contend with. Bitcoins much easier. Paying by transferring crypto currency from one mobile telephone to another would seem much better for the dealers?
    .
    [Edit] beaten to it

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Full Member

    Can you see this particular government asking, let alone telling, the banks to provide a service to those at the bottom end of society that they won’t make any money out of, and would actually probably cost them to provide?

    No… me neither

    Nope, but at some point we might get a sensible government….

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Full Member

    More generally, I just wanted to say that the idea that the poor and the elderly are incapable of using a card or phone to pay for things seems a bit silly when their benefits are paid electronically.

    There are several issues.

    The poor aren’t incapable but they are excluded as banks don’t really want their business – they make money out of mortgages and overdrafts and the (real) poor aren’t a good investment.

    The elderly are just reluctant to change and moan a lot about loosing the Post Office etc (which is fair enough as they like the social aspect).

    Some links on financial exclusion (all fixable if only anyone, in power, cared).

    https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld201617/ldselect/ldfinexcl/132/13206.htm
    https://medium.com/@albertoarenaza/whos-financially-excluded-in-the-uk-7695bf44b315

    Premier Icon 5lab
    Free Member

    it is already a law to do it, part of the The Payment Accounts Regulations 2015 – introduced by the tories (although admittedly to align with EU law)

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2015/2038/pdfs/uksi_20152038_en.pdf

    Premier Icon squirrelking
    Free Member

    There’s only hardship because the infrastructure isn’t right rather than it not existing though. Daft excuses like the post office no longer offering bank accounts are a simple piece of legislation away from being fixed. As for business folk who only deal in cash, they would very quickly learn to adapt.

    Don’t get me wrong, I’m aware the technically illiterate would need accommodating but it’s not hard to imagine the savings would pay for any special accommodations. I don’t buy your argument that it’s any easier to keep track of though, the difference is a number on the screen vs a number in their hand, you can already allocate cash to a pot if you want. Old folk already manage to use bus passes just fine and it would be a simple matter to add 2fa to a vulnerable persons account to safeguard against doorstep scammers.

    Premier Icon ayjaydoubleyou
    Free Member

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55748964

    Saw this today – I guess there’s some set up tech knowhow needed…

    Anybody got a financially imprudent identical twin?

    Premier Icon Murray
    Full Member

    What happens when someone works out how to spoof your face? Do you just ask for a replacement?
    https://findbiometrics.com/biometrics-news-researchers-use-tape-and-glasses-to-spoof-face-id-liveness-detection/

    What happens when you gravel rash your face or need a patch over your eye because you got a splinter in it?

    Biometrics are not the answer to this sort of question, they’re best used as an additional factor to something you have (phone, card) or something you know (PIN, password).

    Premier Icon Rubber_Buccaneer
    Full Member

    patch over your eye

    Aaargh, ye be worried about piracy?

    Premier Icon zilog6128
    Full Member

    Biometrics are not the answer to this sort of question, they’re best used as an additional factor to something you have (phone, card)

    that’s what we have already surely… phone + FaceID? What am I missing?

    Premier Icon dyna-ti
    Free Member

    I thought it was watching them get on their bikes and make something of themselves?

    I had to live that policy, and all it did was promote homelessness.
    Live 4 weeks in your home city, then be forced to move somewhere else for a maximum of 2 weeks. No place to stay, you arrive in a strange city and end up sleeping rough or in a scary night shelter. You have to find accommodation that took dhss, but although the social security had lists of who and where, they wouldnt give you them, so you had to traipse around asking at every B&B. No sorry, no sorry,no sorry,no sorry…..

    Fking tories. Corruption is their catchphrase.

    Tories/Turds
    2 conjoined words beginning with t, ending in S.

    Premier Icon thepodge
    Free Member

    Murray
    What happens when you gravel rash your face or need a patch over your eye because you got a splinter in it?

    The person in the news article has a face mask on. While I agree bio-metrics aren’t the silver bullet, the first pic proves some of your argument wrong.

    Premier Icon poly
    Free Member

    Anybody got a financially imprudent identical twin?

    I don’t know whether he’s financially imprudent or not – but I look forward to him paying for all my takeaway coffee! I like to tell the story about being in China a few years ago. I had taken some cash with me and went to pay for a coffee at about 11am. The barista had to go any get someone to open the back office to get cash to pay me change. I was literally the first person that day (and it was busy) to pay cash in a coffee shop at 11am. Of course depending on your views you may not want such a situation where the government can also trace every penny you ever spend and know if you are evading tax, (or if you are government employee that your weren’t working at 11am as you were buying coffee).

    Premier Icon mahalo
    Full Member

    mother & father in-law are cash only. they’re the type who keep a couple of G stashed under the mattress!

    christmas and birthdays for us and the kids we get cash gifts. or we buy for the kids online and they gives us the cash! i even have to shop for them online and they give me cash back!!

    they are not particularly ancient or steadfast, just have a staunch distrust and disregard for any of this virtual money business, or divulging any personal info. They have mobile phones, braodband, ipad etc – but they go into the post office to pay their bills!! supermarket, stood at the checkout peeling of pound notes to pay with! holidays, cars, tradesmen you name it – cash.

    i have even set up a Monzo account with £100 quid in it just so they can try paying for things online or contactlessly – and really easy to use app to show them how easy and safe it is – never been touched!!

    they’ll be screwed!

    Premier Icon whitestone
    Free Member

    Proposed increase in contactless limit to £100 – https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55826118 – well actually that’s the limit the FCA is looking at, card issuers might not lift it to that if it does go through.

    Premier Icon Murray
    Full Member

    Now that contactless is always online to the issuer (with some limited exceptions e.g. transit) the fraud risk is very low. I’d expect most UK issuers to go with the £100 limit.

    Note the limit doesn’t exist with Apple Pay / Google Pay as long as your phone has been unlocked.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Full Member

    Reminds me of the time I went to Sweden and wanted to get a slice of takeaway pizza late at night. The guy wouldn’t accept cards (at least not my card) so I had to go and get cash. Then I presented him with a 500kr note for which he didn’t have change! Lol.

    Premier Icon ajuk
    Free Member

    It probably is yes, but I’d resist any move to try and do away with it entirely. It’s always good to have a backup if systems go down or for some other unforeseen reason. I encourage anyway to always have a small amount of cash to hand.

    Premier Icon ayjaydoubleyou
    Free Member

    It probably is yes, but I’d resist any move to try and do away with it entirely. It’s always good to have a backup if systems go down or for some other unforeseen reason. I encourage anyway to always have a small amount of cash to hand.

    anybody know the situation in Texas?

    Premier Icon chrishc777
    Free Member

    As a vegetarian I am all for getting rid of the new cash, in 2021 do we really need to be using bits of animal to make paper notes?

    Premier Icon p7eaven
    Free Member

    It’s how I buy eggs. Don’t use it for anything else though.

    During covid I carry a little IPA gel in my rack-pack to wash the coins for the honesty box.

    And I always leave a few extra coins for happy hens and grateful for service. I suppose it could work via paypal but I like it this old fashioned way.

    Premier Icon andrewh
    Free Member

    I think using bit so faninals to make the cash, is a separate debate to whether we need it at all, it worked fine when it was just metal

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Full Member

    It probably is yes, but I’d resist any move to try and do away with it entirely. It’s always good to have a backup if systems go down or for some other unforeseen reason. I encourage anyway to always have a small amount of cash to hand.

    The Chinese Communisy party is launching their own electronic cash, so they can have 100% suveillance on every transaction in the country. However, one nice design feature it you can transfer cash between two mobiles without access to the central bank, so in the event of a network outage, transactions can continue (up to the amount you have downloaded to your wallet).

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/28/china-starts-major-trial-of-state-run-digital-currency

    Premier Icon zilog6128
    Full Member

    anybody know the situation in Texas?

    I imagine the problem with modern computerised systems is that you probably still wouldn’t be able to buy anything with cash as it couldn’t go through the till. Cashier might not even be able to open it to give you change! Might be feasible at a small convenience store though.

    Premier Icon ayjaydoubleyou
    Free Member

    I imagine the problem with modern computerised systems is that you probably still wouldn’t be able to buy anything with cash as it couldn’t go through the till. Cashier might not even be able to open it to give you change! Might be feasible at a small convenience store though.

    without trying to lead the question, that was kind of where I was going. In a city wide powercut/state of emergency is there a use for cash or are the shops completely hobbled with their internal systems/unable to trade for other reasons like not being able to unlock the doors?

    Premier Icon ajuk
    Free Member

    That’s still relying on some quite complex technology to be working, and that both parties have access to it.

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