We have a 55-reg Focus estate, 1.6 petrol. 23k miles
My sister has an 08-reg Focus hatch, diesel. 14k miles
Both similar spec with only a facelift to seperate them really.

At the weekend I drove my sister's car. Pulling up to a roundabout from 60-70 mph, I noticed the brakes, compared to our car, were lacking in both feel and power. I thought this was a bit odd and a quick look round reveled the hatch only has drums on ther back, the estate discs all round.
But you really wouldn't have thought this would make such a big difference would you? I mean, most of the braking happens at the front, surely?
I can't see the cars differing in weight much, with the heavier diesel engine being balanced by the extra bodywork of the estate.
Odd really…. Any ideas?

I doubt the extra body work on an estate amounts to very much weight. But the spec of the brakes might reflect that the estate is equiped to stop more weight, so unladen it might be a bit 'overbraked' compared to the hatch. The hatch with its diesel is already part laden. The disk/drum thing might not make a difference as much as how the brakes are set up (how much effort the servo is adding, how much leverage is being applied by various elements in the chain. They might feel different, but whether they objectively have more or less braking power would require something bit more scientific.

A lot more happens than just a facelift. The un-facelifted version is pretty much the beta test, lots of little spec changes get made at this point to address common faults in the original version, or to revise production costs (downwards usually)

Condition of pads, discs, shoes, drums etc will make a difference. Were you getting the ABS to kick on both to compare maximum braking? If not then the difference could just be in pedal travel/force applied.

No, just firm breaking. The newer car's brakes just felt very dead and wooden. No feel, noticeably less power. We've got the car for a couple of weeks, so I might take it out and, err, get some heat into them, shall we say…
🙂

Still not as bad as the stoppers on a VW Eos though. Fek those things are scarily crap.

EDIT
Apart from that the only main difference is the engine, the diesel lump is noticeably heavier and certainly dulls the handling and compromises the comfort (Heavier springing and damping at the front) but I've driven other cars' different models back to back before and never felt such a difference in brakes, hence the question
🙂

Yeah – I'd say it's more to do with the condition of the brakes than anything.

My old Fiesta & her indoors' Ka, both have discs up front & drums rear.

Her brakes used to require about an inch of pedal travel before anything happened and then they were really spongy. If you really stamped on them, they stopped the car OK, but they just felt rubbish.
Everytime she drove my car, she'd almost put me through the windscreen for the first minute or so when braking & I was the opposite in her car; almost overshooting junctions etc.
She took hers to Ford & they reckoned there was nothing wrong with the brakes (even though I'd driven a few Ka's and none of the others felt like that). Our local garage took a look at them & I don't know what they did, but all of a sudden they worked the same as my old Fiesta's and have done ever since…..

Have the brakes on the newer car been bedded in properly?

Yeah – I'd say it's more to do with the condition of the brakes than anything.

They are both, to all intents and pruposes, virtually brand new.
It must be the combination of set-up and weight…..

p.s. which diesel lump is it? The aluminium 1.6 isn't too heavy, but the old iron block 1.8 and the 2.0 are quite a bit heftier.

Why don't you find out the disc and caliper part numbers before taking it all apart as it might be different and no need to take anything apart.

Also tyres can make a difference too.

I drove std version of my car (I have the sports version) and it handles, brakes and drives naff but it is a std model V's sports model.

Discs are just miles and miles better than drums. Drive loads of cars in/out the garage don't even need to look at the car to tell what brake type it uses.

Without being insulting it's generally cheaper/low end cars that have drums on the rear, there cheap and satisfactory for the average driver.

Have any of them got superstar pads 😆

Condition of the brakes and lack of bedding can cause such a vast feel difference, but discs are light years ahead of drums in feel and performance. At the end of the day a gentle pootler who approaches junctions at low speeds and drifts to a halt (my mum) will not bed their brakes properly, while I approach junctions not intending to stop unless I actually HAVE to and will bed them much more efficiently. And the estate will be spec'd with discs as you may load half a ton of junk in the back along with 5 people, which is unlikely in a hatch.

Probably used superstar pads 😛

which diesel lump is it? The aluminium 1.6 isn't too heavy, but the old iron block 1.8 and the 2.0 are quite a bit heftier.

Not sure, but the 1.6 is about 75kg heavier than our estate, I've discovered….

Throughout a cars lifecycle manufacturers continuously look for more efficient ways of doing things so if they can get a similar performance for less they will. Drums are probably cheaper than disks so a later model might not have them all round.

Also, the difference in weight might not seem that much greater but the estate has a much greater load area. If you're towing a 1500kg trailer as well as being fully laden thats a fair old weight to stop.

I've had a look, and all the 'normal' (Not performance) Focuses have rear drums, the estates have discs.

I remember now remarking to my sister about the brakes at the time, and she just said "Yeah, they are crap". This is her second Focus, the earlier one being about the same age as ours, so maybe the newer ones just have crap brakes…? Possible.

Really, it's looking like the estate just has better, higher specced brakes isn't it?

Happy days!
🙂

Without being insulting it's generally cheaper/low end cars that have drums on the rear, there cheap and satisfactory for the average driver.

simpler and more reliable, therefore often seen as a better choice for a parking brake.

Drum brakes are also occasionally fitted as the parking (and emergency) brake even when the rear wheels use disk brakes as the main brakes. In this situation, a small drum is usually fitted within or as part of the brake disk also known as a banksia brake

also being closed to the world, getting grease/contamination on them is less likely and they are less affected by water.
as the front wheels do 90% of your braking anyway, i dont think having drums on the back would make much difference.

i think your confusing "cheapness" with "cost effectivness" (personally)

is it a second car?
my car was a second car before i bought it and had a small amount of rust develop on the inside edge of the rotor, it wasnt a lot, but it was more than a thin coating, so when i started using it daily, instead of cleaning it off, it started to rip away the metal.
the braking track on the outside of the rotor was 2" wide, and looked healthy, my MOT picked up that the inside braking track was only 1/2" wide, and i needed new rotors.

since then my braking, shockingly, has been much better.

Dont the rear brakes add about 40% of the overall braking effort? Its certainly tested on the MOT rolling road (foot brake operated with the rear wheels in the rollers).

Well we obviously must have different experiences, discs are a piece of cake to work on, bleed and setup in my experience versus drums. Drums have the issue that a visual inspection of the condition of the pads/drum means take it apart – whereas a disc can just have a torch light it up and see what's what.

Discs are better – end of, hence the reason why any high end car or "sports" car uses discs front and rear they offer far better stopping power.

peterpoddy – the issues I mention comparing my old Fiesta to my partners Ford Ka was when my Fiesta was 9 years old and her Fiesta about 6 months or so……and she told me they had always felt like that.

I have never understood the thing some people have against rear drum brakes on a road car.
For most conditions encountered, drums are perfectly capable on the rear and I have driven cars with all-round discs that have performed far worse than a disc/drum set-up.
It just depends on the individual system.

Bear in mind though that serivce costs are a huge part of the "pricing" scheme for cars these days, and drum brakes tend to last 50,000 miles between shoe changes, and more for the drums, whereas IME disc pads last 25K miles and discs last maybe 30K miles.

Discs are always the better option IMO, power, fade, maintenance etc – tick on all boxes, but maybe time between changes matters to the manufacturer. What I find with drums is that usually people leave them until they're dead and gone, worn right through and dangerous, unlike discs where it gets spotted easily.

30K miles for discs?
Only replaced the front disks on my old (disk+drum) focus once in 130k miles, and they were fine when I sold it.

I think CC's driving style is probably described as "enthusiastic" with resulting shorter component lifespan.

😉

I've had a look, and all the 'normal' (Not performance) Focuses have rear drums, the estates have discs.

I've got a 57-plate 1.8 diesel hatch … with disks all round.

Only replaced the front disks on my old (disk+drum) focus once in 130k miles

But they were paper thin when you did… 😀

allthepies – mine? Enthusiastic? nahhh.

Clutches don't last long either…

🙂

Our 06 1.8tdci focus estate has discs all round, seems to go and stop alright, but then I don't really pile into things (unlike other drivers who seem to be slowly chipping away at all the corners of it at the moment).

My 53 Focus 1.8TDCi Hatchback has discs all round.

The new focus is a very different animal to the old one, loads of extra crumple zone stuff to improve the NCAP rating, plus extra stuff to reduce emissions etc etc.

They look similar until you put them next to each other.

As for which cars are fitted with what spec rear brakes, it just on what the buyer wanted and what special offers are on the cars. Some dealer offers will give you free sat nav, but you lose the rear discs etc etc.

I don't care what anyone else has said, but…. you can buy cars with drums nowadays? That's crazy.

haven't read the above replys but maybe the other car need new fluid / pads / discs?

It's too late, he's probably fitted 300mm brembo discs and racing calipers by now 😉