Carbon 456 – assembling, carrying and seatposts

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  • Carbon 456 – assembling, carrying and seatposts
  • andyl
    Member

    1. I used Weldtite (red) grease with teflon for my headset. Just applied a very thin smear to the alloy cups in the frame – that way it was pushed inwards and not into the frame/headset gap.

    2. Yup I use a Thomson post and I use a carbon assembly paste as it will slip very easily otherwise. The internal bore of the seat tube is very slippy. Just needs the tiniest amount – too much and it will feel all gritty and probably take the anodising off the seatpost while not actually helping.

    3. The downtube on the C456 is VERY strong. TBH it is probably stronger than a lot of thin walled metal frames but I picked up a fork mount roof carrier. Mine is the older QR only Thule but the newer one works with other types of wheel fitment.

    But clamping onto the top tube – don’t do it. The top tube is cardboard thick (ie a little thicker than paper) so will deform easily with a clamp and could be damaged if you are careless or there is some severe loads – gusty winds, emergency manoeuvre etc etc

    andyl
    Member

    actually – is the car mount a rear/tow bar one? If it’s a tow bar one than supports the wheels then I wouldn’t worry too much – just be gentle. If the bike rests on the rack and is then strapped it may also be okay.

    You can get beams which clamp to the seat post and stem/steerer/bar area for full suspension bikes to enable them to be used with some bike racks which may be an option.

    Yep – tow bar mounted – no roof options.
    I foresee a wee hint n tip for the website for folk who have these all too common now carriers that specific carriers are needed for carboon frames.
    Never even occurred to me, just found some posts by accident. Duh.

    But yes, the wheels are attached by straps and the ‘weight’ is resting on the wheels, the top clamp is holding the bike from falling over basically.
    Don’t believe this :-)) There’s always something………whassa point in a bike if you cannae carry it via normal means.
    Says he now wondering if hes ever done this with the road bike now …. hmmmmm.

    Ta for replies.

    Wonder if I could get a clamp on to the down tube instead. Would probably b&^%er up carrying any other bikes tho.

    V interesting this …. at this rate there’ll be a special ‘transport your carbon bike’ carrier developed if they cannae handle clamps, being put inside cars cos it might bump off something if you hit a pothole etc, and in fact you can only carry them using the one you described earlier andyl
    Hahahahahahaha

    andyl
    Member

    I was reading your reply with a Scottish accent and then noticed your name! 😆

    This is bar I was talking about: http://www.roofrackshop.com/Car-Products/Bike-Racks/Bike-Rack-Accessories/Automaxi-Bike-Frame-Adapter/0004261p.aspx

    Sure you can buy other ones too.

    Depending on the bike carrier some of the Thule ones with the clamps on arms look like they can clamp the seat post which would also save your seatpost and saddle being pinched off the back of the car!

    Another option for roof carrying is the upside down carrier which are popular for thin walled metal road bikes.

    As for general damage in car etc – my C456 has had knocks that I know would have dented an aluminium or steel frame so don’t worry too much. Just watch those slim seat stays and don’t clamp the top tube tightly in a workstand unless the wheels are off to reduce the torque on the clamp.

    So – plenty c456 owners out there – hoping someone can help with an assembly question and actually a carrying the bike on a car question.

    – When installing Hope headsets/BBs instructions state to liberally apply waterproof grease.
    Now the head tube and BB shell are lined, so no biggie there, but are there any issues with grease (e.g. finish line ceramic) getting onto the carbon frame on the outside around these fittings where the metal liner is bonded to the carbon frame – does that cause any damage?

    – seatposts – anyone use alu post inside the c456 frame? Is it best to do that dry? Seen loads of stuff about carbon posts and using fibre grip but what about this way round? And do you stuff your frame if you start raising/lowering the post regularly (assuing you won’t have a dropper)
    Waiting for a response from on-one on this, but anyone else know?

    – Carrying a c456 on a car bike rack … now here’s something I’d never considered – anyone asked on-one? (I’ve tried, but phones really busy at the mo’ by the looks of it) so wondering if anyone else has asked?
    Read some stuff about not using mounts that grip the top tube on carbon bikes due to the crushing load placed on the frame.
    Possible worry as i only use a carrier that clamps onto the top tube !! and that’s all I’m going to have 🙁

    Haha. Northern accent now removed 🙂

    You had me looking for such an attachment – appear Thule do one for when the bikes are hanging, and one for bikes which are resting on the rack bed.
    So this looks like the thing for me !!
    http://www.thule.com/en/GB/Products/Bike-Carriers/Accessories/Thule-Bike-Frame-Adapter-982
    Though it’s just going to move the load to the seat post and head tube with some pretty narrow hooks
    http://www.thule.com/pdf.axd?ext=\Classification_1_root\Image_Hierarchy\ImageFolder_175958\ImageFolder_197843\982000_510-0057-02.PDF

    Premier Icon chakaping
    Subscriber

    I put mine on the car rack all the time (Thule euroclassic, clamp on top tube and straps on wheels) and would never give it a moment’s concern.

    Andyl – try a different seatclamp if you get a chance – that fixed my slipping post issues.

    andyl
    Member

    I wouldnt worry about putting the loads through the seat post and head tube as when riding you are putting 70-100kg (depends how much you like your neeps and tatties) through those areas and the forces on a wheels supported tow bar rack are a lot less.

    EDIT: Chakaping – don’t have any slipping problems with the paste. I’m sure I could get rid of the slipping with just putting a tighter clamp on but more clamping pressure = bad.

    EDIT2: and yes as i said earlier the tow bar ones that clamp the top tube are not a huge issue so you should be fine. Get the bar if you are worried or clamp the seat post if you can.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    I stuck some helicopter tape round the downtube of mine as I know it’ll spend a lot of time on a thule rack, and the clearcoat seems pretty soft and easy to mark. But otherwise no worries.

    I think I’ll see if I can move a holder round to get to the downtube somehow. And heli tape is good to go – gonna do the downtube anyway, so double the benefit.

    chakaping – I would have been doing if I hadn’t come across the usual ‘net stories – and of course no way of knowing how true or otherwise they are.

    Another idea that *might* work is to get an extra clamp for the rack, and use two clamps on the frame rather than one to distribute any ‘load’.

    northwind – that’s prob what I’ll start with. Do you use the normal roof mounted one so it grips just above the BB?

    Cheers folks.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Subscriber

    Aye, that’s the one. TBH I tape every bike I have there anyway, the Thule’s great but it does rub especially if you stick a dirty bike in it. So not really treating the 456 any different from my metal bikes.

    andyl
    Member

    Thule 591?

    They do clamp nice and low when fitted correctly. The C456 downtube is built like a battleship down by the BB.

    Premier Icon scoobmw
    Subscriber

    Thule 591 – yep makes sense.
    Will see what I can do with the Thule towbar rack.
    On One’s thoughts are just be careful with the top tube and wrap it in some padding if you do. And theie thoughts on the bar between seattube and headtube were positive – even with the small contact point of the hooks themselves.
    Therefore – will get one of the Thule 982 adapters and probably pad the HT/Seat tubes in use too.

    chakaping – yeah, ws kind of thinking just get on with it to be honest, but will prob acquire the adapter, which hopefully won’t be ridiculously priced.

    Premier Icon scoobmw
    Subscriber

    Follow on assembly thoughts ……….

    On One don’t supply any torque settings for attaching FD clamp, BB, dropots, seat clamp.
    Anyone managed to get info on this at all?

    andyl
    Member

    tbh I think you’ll be lucky. I said when i got mine it would be nice to have some info on whether the BB and headtube needed facing and the swap-out torque. There should be a guide for torque on your FD instructions of about 5nm and a suggestion to take it down to 3-4nm on carbon but tbh I think it should be fine with the normal 5nm.

    Another thing they should have suggested was to go for a conventional front mech. I tried a low one but it wouldnt fit right due to the seat tube splaying out to the BB area.

    Premier Icon scoobmw
    Subscriber

    Thanks andyl

    I’ll give them a shout then – would be really useful to get a FAQ on the website with torque settings for the carbon 456. And there’s not one there just now.
    The instructions I’ve got are just the Shimano ones which say buckets of torque for a metal frame and ‘contact manufacturer’ for carbon. Didn’t get any frame ones.

    Still, I’ve found On One’s cust service really good so see how I go.
    Otherwise it’s 5Nm for everything and hope it stays put.
    The c456 frame is crying out for a one page install sheet that might say:

    Care instructions: Blah blah (i.e. how to clean etc)
    Buld info:

    Dropout – do / don’t use carbon assembly paste on dropouts before bolting to frame, torque to use = xx Nm

    FD clamp – ditto

    BB – just torque though I suspect I’ll never get them to whatever torque is needed anyway in this case. BB torque always dead high.

    Headset – again, how hard do you turn the handles on the press – until an avg strength person can’t turn them any more or what.

    Seatpost clamp – do / don’t use ass paste on inside of clamp, torque setting = ?

    And some comment re your andyl on front mech ….

    Front mech – errrr, dunno how conventional mine is or not 🙂 XT multifit top clamp downswing????

    deserter
    Member

    did anybody ever get any torque values?

    Premier Icon philstone
    Subscriber

    I asked about the roof clamps and they said it would be fine, as mentioned the downtime is very strong.

    hora
    Member

    Thread Resurrection! What size seat collar do you need?

    I was thinking of selling my Thule 591 and buying a QR mounted one anyway (can you get 20mm bolt through ones?) Edit: Thule OutRide 561?

    Headset-wise can I use my home made headset press (carefully)?

    plyphon
    Member

    I emailed them the other day about front mech clamp – they said 4 – 5nm

    Premier Icon Cheezpleez
    Subscriber

    I fitted a headset using threaded rod, washers and blocks of wood. It was a bit of a faff to keep straight but went in eventually after cooling in the freezer

    dantsw13
    Member

    Seat collar is a 34.9.

    My bike carrier has a downtube holder – I put some pipe lagging in the jaws to spread the pressure slightly. It seems to be working so far!

    Premier Icon timidwheeler
    Subscriber

    Crappie at on one said the Thule 591 would be fine on my carbon Whippet. He said it was how he carried his. So far I have had no problems.

    orangeman5
    Member

    outriderscot…check my Flickr account for the answer to your problem.

    hora
    Member

    Cheez thats what I have

    shifter
    Member

    Yes Hora, 561 will take a 20mm axle, there was a spare tube for it in the box. Doesn’t lock though.

    Premier Icon timidwheeler
    Subscriber

    Lol – I meant chappy.

    fibre
    Member

    ***Just realized how old the thread is after writing the post. D’oh!. I’ll post anyway as someone might find it useful.

    Small amount of grease for the headset cups.

    I use nothing on the post, different brands have different views on carbon prep\fibre grip and some have gone from saying do use to don’t. I always try without and if there’s no slippage then I don’t use it. I always make sure I give the seatpost and seat tube a wipe down after a wet ride to get rid of any water or crud.

    It’s worth helitaping so you don’t get any excessive rubbage as that’s one thing carbon isn’t very resistant to. Not just on the rack but cable rub is especially bad on wet rides when the bike gets covered in gritty mud. And it’s On One paint so it wont stay on for long otherwise 😉

    I wasn’t expecting a lot from my C456, I bought it out of curiosity but I absolutely love it. Fast up and down, nice and stable, very comfy once the setups dialed, yes it’s ugly but I forget about that when i’m riding it. Enjoy! 🙂

    hora
    Member

    Wow a positive STW post

    fibre
    Member

    It’s not all non-bike related rant/doom/gloom threads 😉

Viewing 31 posts - 1 through 31 (of 31 total)

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