Car Tyres & Balancing – Help!

Home Forum Chat Forum Car Tyres & Balancing – Help!

Viewing 24 posts - 1 through 24 (of 24 total)
  • Car Tyres & Balancing – Help!
  • Premier Icon Davesport
    Subscriber

    On presenting the car back to the fitter, did the balancing machine indicate either of the wheels were out of balance? IE not done correctly on previous attempts.

    dirksdiggler
    Member

    Looks at the printed lines on the tread, there is a way to decifier what the position and spacing means as these are applied when the tyres are qc’d in the factory.
    Could also be worn suspension components that the old tyres were masking?

    Rich_s
    Member

    I’d go with worn suspension. Had this with a mazda 5.

    nick7658
    Member

    Thing is the problem only presented itself when the new tyres were fitted.

    Each time I’ve had it done the mechanic has said that they were only very minutely out and I wouldn’t notice.

    Car is a 64 plate with 25k on the clock so I’m hoping worn suspension isn’t the problem just yet ….

    Thing that makes it worse is that I’m abit OCD about having things right!

    nick7658
    Member

    So,

    Cut a long story short, bought 2 x Continetnal Sport Contact 5’s for my Fiesta from my Local Halfords Autocentre.

    Drove it home the first night and the steering wheel was vibrating and wobbling quite servery above 50mph so I figured they needed rebalancing again.

    Took it back the next day and asked them to take another look, drove it home that night and the problem, if anything, had got worse even though they had rebalanced both front tyres again.

    Took it back at Lunch Time today and spoke to the chap in charge and he said he’d try moving the tyres around the rims to a different position and rebalance dynamically?

    Just drove it home tonight and it is somewhat better but I can still feel the wheel vibrating lightly through my hands.

    I can’t believe it would take more than 3 attempts to balance a pair of wheels correctly?

    Is their something I’m missing – could the tyre(s) be defective at all?

    Any help much appreciated!

    Regards
    Nick

    Premier Icon simmy
    Subscriber

    I’m no tyre fitting expert but I’ve seen enough tyres fitted over the years on mine and company vehicles and I’ve never heard of rotating a tyre on the rim.

    Sounds like they can’t get them balanced up 100 %

    Things I’ve learned about balancing, just from having tyres fitted.

    Are they alloy wheels ? If so, are they using stick on weights ? If they are, any chance they are not sticking fully and you are losing one as the car gains speed ? ( this shouldn’t happen )

    Is there any damage to the wheel it’s self ? My driving school car has a wheel that is now just for spare as its been Kerbed that many times it just won’t balance up 100 %

    The tyres themselves could be out of shape.

    It’s not going to be suspension wear at that age / milage. My Fiesta is a 62 plate with 118,000 on it and the only suspension part I’ve had replaced was a ball joint a few months back.

    I’ve found Halfords to be a shower of ….. I’d give them one last chance then tell them you are taking it elsewhere and sending them the bill.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    Tracking can cause wobbles, I think..?

    nick7658
    Member

    Yeah they are alloy wheels near as damn it in perfect condition.

    Like I say I’ve had no issues with the car up until this point.

    I’m going to try a independent garage tomorrow morning to get a second opinion. At least I know if they can’t also get it right it’s going to be a problem deeper within the car.

    They have used stick on weights yes, the inside face of the wheels look a bit of a pigs ear now, the amount of times they have re-weighted the inside face and then pulled them off and adjusted them again but all weights appear intact.

    trail_rat
    Member

    I’m no tyre fitting expert

    I’ve never heard of rotating a tyre on the rim.

    yep one statement confirms the other.

    tires are neither perfectly round nor perfectly balanced.

    neithers the rim.

    the whole act of balancing is a balancing act, trading off one aspect to gain another eventually gaining an equilibrium. using the machine with no real knowledge will get you close but you need to understand what it is your doing and dont just throw weights at it.

    usually tires have a yellow dot – this is lightest point and should be synced to the valve stem as this is the rims heaviest point but not always and rotating the tire round the rim could help in some case.

    personally i feel theres something else a miss. either the tires are duff or something on the cars not right…. i think the former mostly as the cars near new and the issue arose when tires fitted but yes tracking being out can cause vibration and wobble at speed.

    Premier Icon simmy
    Subscriber

    It’s very unlikely to be a problem other than something to do with the tyres. I’ve had 4 Fiestas now and they can take a battering so with the condition of your car being good and the low mileage, I wouldn’t worry about the car.

    I think you are doing the right thing going somewhere else. When I used to lease the cars, they used Halfords for servicing and all they did was drop the oil and charge the leasing company for a full service.

    I found that out as I used to drop it off and go for a wander ” come back in an hour and half mate, we will get straight on with it ” as they drove it in. My mate went past 20 mins later and it was parked outside in a different space. Didn’t move again till I collected it. When It next went in, I cabled tied the wheel trims on and my ties were still on when I collected it. They has supposedly done a major service……

    nick7658
    Member

    Thanks Guys!

    No yellow dot on the tyres I’m afraid.

    Being a premium tyre (and German) you kinda expect them to be the some of the best tyres going and spot on!

    Car has and does still track perfectly straight ironically. I had even tyre wear on the ones I replaced too! Something doesn’t figure though!

    Will advise tomorrow of results if I haven’t already bored you all go death on a Tuesday evening!

    Premier Icon simmy
    Subscriber

    usually tires have a yellow dot – this is lightest point and should be synced to the valve stem as this is the rims heaviest point but not always and rotating the tire round the rim could help in some case.

    I never knew about this, I’d seen the dots but didn’t know what they meant.

    As far as I knew, you chucked a tyre on, spun the machine, it told you where to put the weight and how heavy and away you go.

    Didn’t know there was more to it than that.

    Premier Icon molgrips
    Subscriber

    Car has and does still track perfectly straight ironically

    Bad tracking doesn’t make your car pull to one side, mostly.

    When It next went in, I cabled tied the wheel trims on and my ties were still on when I collected it. They has[b]d[/b] supposedly done a major service……

    Why would they take the wheels off for a service?

    Have they put the tyres on right side/direction of rotation?
    i.e. Are the yellow dots on the inside of the tyre.
    Can’t imagine that doing balancing, handling a whole lot of good.

    mattyfez
    Member

    Why would they take the wheels off for a service?

    With steel rims it might be difficult to inspect the pads/calipers /brake lines depending on how they are oriented, you can probably see from behind the wheel with the car up in the air, but may not. Much easier to see overall state of the brakes /rods etc. With the wheel off.

    Brakes should be inspected for a major service.

    With steel rims it might be difficult to inspect the pads/calipers /brake lines depending on how they are oriented, you can probably see from behind the wheel with the car up in the air, but may not.

    Brakes should be inspected for a major service.

    True (I’d argue brakes should be checked periodically, not wait 3 years for a major service or even a normal annual service), but I’d be surprised if any garage took the wheels off to check the brakes as part of routine servicing, you can see/feel all you need to from the back. And MOT testers manage it and they’re not allowed to remove trim panels.

    The usual criticism leveled at autocenters/ATS/kwikfit is they’re a bit too eager when checking your brakes!

    Premier Icon finishthat
    Subscriber

    Most likely that the balancing machine is out of calibration/setup .
    There is a very specific setup/calibration routine for the machines , if it is not done correctly the “advice” from the machine is wrong.
    If you move the machine or make it loose its memory of settings / “BA” power surge etc – it will give the wrong results.
    How do I know this – I fixed the electronics in one for a friend a couple of years ago – so have researched balancing machines.

    Marge
    Member

    Nick
    this may well have nothing to do with balance….

    As trail rat correctly mentioned, as well as variances in weight distribution, there can be variances in shape (tyres & rims not perfectly round) but also (in this case and more likely based on what you wrote) a variance in the uniformity of the tyres spring rate.

    A tyre is made up of flat components, that are subsequently ‘rolled’ up into a circle and where they join or splice,and there can be a stiffer segment due to the necessary overlap.
    It is not realistic for manufacturers to measure 100% of tyres for this in the factory hence there are very occasional market issues identifiable by a vibration that cannot be balanced out. Normally this vibration is present at a lower speed than a (slightly) out of balance tyre would exhibit.

    This uniformity cannot be seen of course nor measured with a regular balancing machine. There are however some machines such as the Hunter GSP9000 that have a feature that allows it to be measured.

    Its a frustrating thing for the dealer also, as he will need to claim to the manufacturer for the tyres and its not something that can be definitively proven without a special machine.

    (ps: I am a tyre engineer by profession)

    Premier Icon allthegear
    Subscriber

    (ps: I am a tyre engineer by profession)

    There is no space for professional, informed opinion on this forum thank you very much

    Rachel

    allthegear

    🙂

    trail_rat
    Member

    im a tired engineer does that count ?

    nick7658
    Member

    Thanks Marge – useful to know.

    Had the tyres rebalanced and re-checked this morning by an independent using a Hunter system and as a total they were 25g out.

    I still have a slight humming sensation through the steering wheel at various speeds which is also surface dependant.

    Off to Halfords now to see if they are accommodating enough to switch the tyres to a different brand for me.

    trail_rat
    Member

    new tires or not then ? 😀

Viewing 24 posts - 1 through 24 (of 24 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.