I would like for people to start thinking for themselves instead of what the “Daily mail” tells them to think.

I suggest you put it down and get a breath of fresh air outside then….

I have nothing constructive to add, but an almost overwhelming desire to post something sanctimonious.

I have some sympathy for the OP (concerned parent) but not so much for his son. He knew he was doing wrong and as such should now pay the penalty.

This is not a tax debate – it’s a law breaking issue.

Best of luck OP – not easy being a parent at times!

how much of you car tax is spent on the roads (infrastructure) and ask yourself where the rest is going?

Uh Oh he said ‘car tax’.

Who else will pay for the paysrises I see the MPs are getting.
They do such an amazing job and deserve every penny.

My understanding is that they are actually losing out because their benefits and what expenses they can claim are being cut?

My understanding is that they are actually losing out because their benefits and what expenses they can claim are being cut?

I guess the extremely generous pension scheme and subsidised food and drink will be some consolation.

Stop paying tax & buy a fat bike.

You’ll need those big tyres once the roads disintegrate.

😈

I guess the extremely generous pension scheme and subsidised food and drink will be some consolation.

Well if it means that they have to pay to get their moat cleaned or keep their mistress in a Kensington flat, it’s a small battle won. 😉

Iolo
We walked in the cold air
Freezing breath on a window pane
Lying and waiting
A man in the dark in a picture frame
So mystic and soulful
A voice reaching out in a piercing cry
It stays with you until

The feeling has gone only you and I
It means nothing to me
This means nothing to me 😉

can’t tell if trolling or stupid……

Ah well if you can’t make mistakes when your young when can you!??!

When your young its hard to refuse temptation and the obvious savings that can directly and immediatly benefit your social life.

I’d rather red diesel to drug dealing – look on the bright side

I can’t be bothered to read all of the posts (some are probably quite knowledgable on this).

I always thought the fine could run into thousands – but perhaps this is more aimed at large-scale exploitation – maybe customs should visit the farmer who was selling it?

I thought that the rationale was that it was such a tempting thing to do, and that you were relatively unlikely to get caught, so the deterrent was made quite severe in financial terms?

On a slightly more amusing/annoying note, I had a mate who worked for customs. He told me a story about how the ‘oils and fuels boys’ had got a bit gung-ho and ‘impounded’ some blokes car. It was something to do with ‘red’, I think. Anyway they just parked it up outside the building. When they were told to move it as they probably shouldn’t have done it in the first place, they drove it around the corner onto some double-yellows before calling the bloke back.

Probably an apocryphal tale, but one that still amuses me.

Lawnmanmx has a point 80p a litre is a bit off . When you consider the infrastructure cost the social cost and health costs of car ownership .The anti social use of motor vehicles and their local and global environmental impact. the duty needs to be at least doubled.

What has only barely been mentioned so far are the following details-

A lot of ‘red’ on the dodgy market is fuel stolen from farms and yards, often then distributed in a startlingly sophisticated manner.
In some parts of the UK, dodgy diesel is controlled by organised crime.
Red, or for that matter heating kerosene are both properly damaging to your modern diesel car engine. Both fuels are very rough, short on ‘additives’ and dirty.

OP- tell him to get himself down to the HMRC office responsible pronto and get it settled as amicably as possible. Think damage limitation at this stage and make sure that he tells them the truth.

Oh aye, and note that HMRC do not write the laws on tax avoidance. Westminster chooses how to legislate and then controls the staffing budget too.

Running the risk with Red Diesel is on par with young drivers not having insurance.

The fine they receive is substantially less than the cost of doing it properly in the first place.

Probably more so for insurance though

I always thought the fine could run into thousands

And a fine for letting a dog s*&t in the street can run into the hundreds, but who has ever heard of a single thoughtless owner being punished at all, never mind getting the highest fine possible.

Anyway, I digress…

what tomaso said +1

Young and foolish yes.
I don’t see why all the sanctimonious-track-world response though.

Ecky-Thump – Member

I don’t see why all the sanctimonious-track-world response though

well you are on sanctimoniuostrackworld.com

well you are on sanctimoniuostrackworld.com …

…and most of us pay all of our taxes, hence reducing our disposable income.

The only time I used red diesel in my banger (many years ago, and yes I know, slapped wrists) it was a *very* cold winters day and it waxed my injectors up.

The local copper happened to pass as the bonnet was open, and – presumably because of my guilty look – gave me a look to say he knew exactly what I’d done 😳

As above, I personally wouldn’t run red diesel in a modern car. Hope you get it sorted OP.

crankboy – Member
Lawnmanmx has a point 80p a litre is a bit off . When you consider the infrastructure cost the social cost and health costs of car ownership .The anti social use of motor vehicles and their local and global environmental impact. the duty needs to be at least doubled.

Nice to see you volunteering to pay for all the buses to run several times a day to all the small villages in Wiltshire, then.
You’re not? Well, they’ll have to go back to using their cars, then; one bus each way a day is hardly useful to most people.

countzero so what do people in a small village need to travel daily for?

To the people that believe red is bad for a modern diesel engine, utter rubbish.
1 it come out of the same refinery tanks as white
2 tractors and plant machinery also use modern engines

countzero so what do people in a small village need to travel daily for?

Same reason you need to travel? Work, shops, school, that kind of thing?

local shops? local work? local school??? cheap petrol kills the rural economy . There is a 2010 report by the council “Rural Wiltshire an Overview.”

Basically a prosperous area with lots of urban incommers pricing out locals and changing local comunities, If more people were using the local busses for local needs then more busses would run .

Our local pub and shop both shut down in the time we lived in auchenblae- in the end we moved out too because it basically meant that we were forced to travel 12 miles to get anything.

Shame as the shop was really good and not priced stupid.

The pub blew up- not sure if it was an insurance job or what. But it was never rebuilt.

Noticed alot of houses forsale or going into disrepair.

Shame.

But your right the 1 bus a day and that took 2 hours to travel to stoney was a bit of a joke, because we couldnt use it we didnt use it. I used to cycle to stonehaven and get the train.

We use our new local village as much as we can, still cant do the weekly shop in spar but its first stop if we need anythng outside the weekly shop. And we use the bus loads for going into town for the cinema or a couple drinks – its a really good service up here on deeside and always busy + runs up to midnight , 2km walk at our end but its barable and on clear nights awesome due to no light pollution.

Lawnmanmx has a point 80p a litre is a bit off

OK. Take the duty off fuel and shove income tax or VAT up by a few percent.

It’s just general taxation. And you’ll still be paying it. Currently those who pollute the most pay the most, which seems quite equitable.

Well I once heard you could get the red dye out so no-one would know?

esselgruntfuttock – Member

Well I once heard you could get the red dye out so no-one would know?

Used to be you run it through cat litter to remove the dye, tbh the red is not the main indicator, there’s a chemical added to show it’s duty free. As mentioned before a lot of diesel scams are run by former terrorist, organised crime gangs et al

You can filter it through fullers earth and that cleans it up

As mentioned before a lot of diesel scams are run by former terrorist, organised crime gangs et al

Slab Murphy

Used to be you run it through cat litter to remove the dye

Cat litter is probably one of the few substances more expensive per cubic centimetre than UK fuel.

Strong acid into the red fuel followed by a strong alkali wash might do the trick. Then just dump the resulting waste liquor in SBCs in the middle of the countryside for the loacal authorities to clean up. Seems to be the way the paramiltaries do it over here 🙂

A mate got done for running his truck on red a couple of years ago, he’d been doing it for years, but as it was first time he’d been caught, and I think he blagged it (worked in the forestry industry), they fined him about £700, no impound and that was it, they said if they caught him again it would be much worse.

Very popular in South Armagh (other rural red diesel hot spots are available), HMRC are even taking action and prosecuting people there now which they wouldn’t have dared do not so long ago.

Been stopped twice in 2 years on the exact same weekend (weekend after Easter) in Kirkby Stephen in the pickup for red diesel checks. They’ve never tested for chemical markers, simply just syphoned some fuel into a clear bottle and had a look.

They’re always very polite and it doesn’t bother me as I’d never use red.

There seemed to be VOSA checks all over the place round Co Durham on Wednesday. I passed 3 different check points with police pulling people over – 1 at the VOSA weighbridge just off the A19 and a couple more over nr Durham.

We’ll…… Thanks fellas for all the comment and info…… I am taking my son out tomorrow to have a frank and open (!) further discussion…… Then we are off to meet with the HMRC so fingers crossed…… He’s been told on the phone that there is a £500 fine and car release fee of around £150……… If they are satisfied after interviewing him…… So once that’s over I will be glad to know what is what …. Either way.

Young people these days generally seem to lack a lot of things a generation older seemed to have…… Oh how I could go on…….. It’s been a very difficult 24 hours I must admit, and his mum is beside herself anxious and worried, upset and angry with him….. At 22 yes he really should know better ….. We have sat tonight beating ourselves up…. Bad parents? Made things too easy for him ? Been to hard on him? Not hard enough? Not seen underlying issues early? Affected by the death of his beloved Grandad? Did I spend too much time in his younger life setting up and running our business ?

Etc. etc….

Feeling incredibly frustrated and down about this and all the related issues to be honest….

:-(.

Don’t beat yourself up. Young men do stupid things with no encouragement necessary. And I know as I include myself in that group.

In future tell him to take part in more STW-approved forms of tax evasion like import duty fraud. 😉

The dye used is Solvent Red 24 which contains chemical markers, not easy to remove and would take a long time to dilute the traces away, initial tests will be by visual means but there are other methods if hmrc suspect red diesel has been used.