Current VW van has lap belts in the rear I haven’t got round to having 3 point belts fitted yet (had them fitted in the old van) would you use them with boosters ? (6yr old and 4yrs) I will get 3 point belts fitted but fancied using van this weekend with the boys.

Mrs is not really happy with the idea

I’d use them rather than use nothing, but they are a long way from ideal.

No, haven seen the consequences of those using badly fitted seat belts or none no.

Interesting Drac. I realise it’s obvious enough with no belts but what kind of things do you see with lap belts?

Dude, I’m thinking that Drac probably doesn’t want to think about that too much and you don’t want to hear his answer.

Ok, fairy nuff. No need to answer Drac if you’d rather not. I guess I can google it. I had a genuine reason for asking. Never mind.

Seen the consequences of falling down a big flight of stairs too

Feel safer using lap belts than long stairs.

Then there are busses that have lap belts – not seen many with 3points yet

A lap belt just holds your lap, a 3 point belt holds your shoulder and chest, and we all bend at the lap, so imagine a sharp braking the entire weight of your top half is going to carry on moving forward and either hit your knees or the seat back.

Get someone to drive slowly then brake hard with you wearing a lap belt,and see what happens and weirdly enough theyre allowed to be worn by coach drivers.

No way with kids that age (my eldest is 4). His child seat would be completely unsafe lap belt only. Listen to the Mrs.

I think they’d be safer in a heavy vehicle like a coach, because typically speeds are lower, and, they wouldn’t be subject to as severe a deceleration as a car anyway (cos most of the time what they hit is only going to slow them down, not stop them). In fact, they’re probably just as useful to stop the occupants bouncing around the inside as anything.

car it is…cheers guys 😀

Interesting Drac. I realise it’s obvious enough with no belts but what kind of things do you see with lap belts?

Project covers it a lap belt only holds you at the waster your Torso carries on moving forward with a nice band across the waste. 3 point ones especially newer ones hold you in position.

Then there are busses that have lap belts – not seen many with 3points yet

Bus impacts and car impacts are very different hence why many buses have no seat belts and why HGV have different regulations too.

Seen the consequences of falling down a big flight of stairs too

Feel safer using lap belts than long stairs.

Trail Rat earlier today.

No ones asked the critical – are the seats forward facing.

Makes a world of difference.

I think that if you really need assurance as to how to protect your kids then you shouldn’t really be allowed to have them, why the hell do you think cars don’t have lap belts anymore? If any reasonable person thought that car manufactures would put safety in front of profit then they are seriously deluded.
Oh & not having a go at the OP per see.

No ones asked the critical – are the seats forward facing.

It’s VW Van it’s safe to say they are.

Get someone to drive slowly then brake hard with you wearing a lap belt,and see what happens

And try the same with nothing. I would not fancy being in a forward collision with a lap belt on, but I would also not fancy being t-boned or rolled without any kind of seatbelt. And I would not fancy having my neck broken by a loose kid flying about a car. It’s a tough one.

I think that if you really need assurance as to how to protect your kids then you shouldn’t really be allowed to have them, why the hell do you think cars don’t have lap belts anymore? I

That is a sodding ridiculous thing to say.

He’s not asking if lap belts are better than 3 points, everyone knows that they are not. It’s about lap belts vs nothing, which is an interesting question and absolutely nothing to do with parenting skill. Actually the fact he’s asking means he’s aware of safety issues and wants to find out the best option. So that’s good parenting in my book.

Neither is at all appealing, I think I’d stay at home, or take the train or something tbh.

That is a sodding ridiculous thing to say.

No it’s not, it’s about accountability, the OP is asking if it’s OK, & in this day & age then we know better, so take the more modern car, it’s a no brainer.

Cheers.

The classes (M1, M2 and M3) and test loads for cars, minibuses and buses etc are all different. I’ve not done the tests for a few years, but seem to remember M1 was simulating 20g deceleration and M2 was 10g (would have to read the regs to remind myself). e.g. for M1, if the belts were in any way attached to the seat, then the test loads simulated heavy passenger x 20g plus seat weight x 20g (i.e. very big loads).

What kind of seat is it? I presume something like a bolt in / folding aftermarket one, camper, rock-roll bed etc? I’d think long and hard about the quality / effectiveness of a 3 point conversion and how it works as a system with the seat (there are some rock-roll beds that I think would be horrific in a crash). Rather than new belts, it might be better putting any money into a whole new seat.

Witnessing the performance of some installations under test, I certainly reconsidered our vehicles after having kids. The rock-roll seat got sold and replaced with some fixed, high back, 3 point belt seats that I knew tested OK (with shortest possible legs and lots of underfloor reinforcement). When eventually we got a new van, it was a factory built Combi (not a conversion) in the hope it had also done full crash tests (with dummies etc) rather than just the seat and anchorage pull tests described above. I guess good conversions are OK, provided they have been tested and then actually installed with all the features that were used to pass the test (some converters leave out reinforcement based on their “experience”……)

Accountability? Honestly I have no idea where you are going with that.

Someone isn’t sure of the issues, so asks. Still not seeing a problem here. I’m not sure what else you are supposed to do if you don’t know something. And why the hell are you wading in being all angry and slagging him off?

Molegrips, because he has a better tool for the job, just use it.
PS I’m not angry, they are not my kids.

Proper factory fit lap belts, I’d use. Any aftermarket or DIY I’d want to check over very well before trusting. My last car was a Honda Stream, middle row of seats centre seat is lap only and we used it happily without issues, similarly the belts in our Autosleeper camper van years ago. Sure, 3 point would be better, but so would all occupants wearing helmets, only travelling after 3am when the roads are quieter and staying below 20mph. I’d think of taping/velcro/strapping the boosters in place so they stay where you want them.

NO! You would never forgive yourself!

We were involved in an unavoidable (by us) crash in which the other driver died (travelling 60-80mph in a 30 zone, wrong side of the road, hitting us head on). My kids are only alive today because they were strapped in correctly, and we were only travelling 25 mph. This happened around the corner from our own home. Could happen to anyone, any time.

Female driver died recently local to here because she didn’t wear a seatbelt correctly. She used to tuck the top strap behind her and just wore it as a lap belt. She was involved in an rtc and died because she head butted the steering wheel so many times.

seat/lap belts are factory fitted by Westfalia but 25yrs ago….

2unfit2ride

as you don’t know me personally I can’t/wont take any offence at your remark !

We also had a Honda Stream a few years back same middle lap belt !

Mind was made up with Drac ‘s comment….thank you btw

I have also thought about fitting proper seats in the rear….any advice on that be great

mick_r

Why on earth would you not? OK, 3 point belts are far better, so you’re best option is to get some fitted ASAP, but between a choice of being constrained at the waist and suffering some injuries but surviving, or being huled into the seat in front head first and causing signficiant injuries to the person in the front seat who is strapped in with a 3 point seat belt, I know what i’d prefer.

He was asking should he use them or just wait. Not should I use them or just drive around with my kids not using anything at all.

My last car was a Honda Stream, middle row of seats centre seat is lap only and we used it happily without issues

How many major accidents did you have in it?

How many major accidents did you have in it?

None !

But it did get written off when a council dust cart went into it outside our house one morning at 6.30 am…Oh I did laugh…not !

Bus impacts and car impacts are very different hence why many buses have no seat belts and why HGV have different regulations too.

Buses used in stage carrige work dont require seat belts as the driver needs to move round to issue tickets, but drivers of park and ride buses with limited intermediate stops do, local park and ride drivers got fined last year, for the offence, coach drivers may have to move a bit so lap belts are aceptable,but LGV,s need 3 point belts to hold the driver in the vehicle in case it over turns, a common occurance.

All buses used on school transport contracts, as opposed to stage carrige services, must be fitted with seat belts, and so must all coaches,its the passengers responsibility to use them though.

I’m happy to have a chat about conversions – email in my profile.

Mick