• This topic has 34 replies, 28 voices, and was last updated 2 years ago by tthew.
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  • Car collision – any experts for advice?
  • flannol
    Free Member

    Got bumped into this evening on a mini roundabout. My nearside, 3rd party’s offside front-on but just on the edges of the cars.

    Other driver at the scene admitted fault. And due to the nature of the roundabout and where his car and my car are damaged, there is no other physical way for each of us to have had that impact so I think it should be clear-cut there’s no way he can worm out of it. I also have details of a passer by dog walker witness who saw it all (very closely) and has agreed to talk to insurers should they ask her.

    Damage to my car:

    Fairly bog standard insurance stuff I’m sure. However, my car is irreplaceable (I can’t afford to replace it: It’s not ‘market worth’ anywhere near what I’d need to spend to get a similar replacement – it was absolutely *impeccable* and I’d need to spend 7k+ to get a similar condition/spec car, whereas it’s only ‘worth’ about 3k).

    So, I need it to be repaired not just written off.

    What can I do? The person I bought it off is also my long term mechanic, we’ve already talked on the phone. He’s looked after this car from day one so knows it inside out, and is happy to do any repair work on it and wants me to send pictures in the morning.

    This is if it is repairable… I had a(nother) mechanic friend come round and check it over, because the AA were taking ages, and he said it was fine to drive the ~0.5 mile home after we pulled the bodywork back off the wheel, so I did. He looked at panel gaps etc and said it’s unlikely it is structural. Obviously can’t tell until it’s on a lift. ?? Do I need to instruct a specialist ??

    Current situation: I have contacted my insurers (Admiral) immediately. They logged the incident but their only concern was getting me help / recovered, and they said it will be dealt with in the morning (24th) that’s not their priority now. They haven’t asked for anything and wouldn’t let me tell them anything other than where I was and if I was okay

    Should I be doing things in a certain order, or with certain people, to make sure that behind my back they don’t just immediately ‘market value’ the car and tell me that’s my only option? I have no idea how to go about this. I really just want the car repaired ASAP (at no cost to me), no funny business, and we all just get on with our lives. Worst case scenario is I get a payout and have to buy a crap tin can and I’m back to a really bad place just when things were starting to go okay.

    3rd party has my name and number and numberplate (I have his) and we took plenty of pics, and I can only assume he has also contacted his insurance. He seemed decent enough so I don’t think it will end up going through police to find him

    Thanks.

    phil5556
    Full Member

    I can’t help but curious as to why you think it’s worth so much more than market value?

    Insurance often try and pay the minimum amount they can get away with but you’re talking about wanting more than double what you expect them to pay?

    flannol
    Free Member

    Trusted history and no expense spared maintenance (I know the previous and only owner) – mint condition and meticulously looked after, essentially

    That has no monetary ‘value’ in some people’s eyes but I’d need to spend 7-10k (eg, the newest model sharan) to get a similar condition car *unless I was very lucky to find another perfect example for 2.5-3k, but that’s very unreasonable and very unlikely – very likely I’d end up with a heap of sh#@ that’s never had an oil change and been run into the ground*

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    poly
    Free Member

    If the insurer believes that it was only worth 3k before the crash then if the official repair cost* is >3k they will write it off. If the damage is not structural then usually you can buy the wreck for a few hundred quid from them take the cash and patch it up yourself – but to make that viable you have to be willing to compromise on repair quality unless you happen to have your own body shop.

    *I think this will be the repair + hire car costs whilst it’s getting done which will add up.

    Poopscoop
    Full Member

    All likelihood op, the insurance will write it off, cat N*, if you are lucky and you can buy it back, pay to have it repaired and carry on driving it.

    I did exactly this a year or so back for similar reasons to you.

    If structural, all bets are off.

    Good luck mate and watch out for the hire car “scam”. Good thread on that on here.

    * I think it’s cat N.

    Flaperon
    Full Member

    Modern cars don’t really break (unless you buy a used Mercedes from molgrips) so I’d try not to be too worried about it.

    The insurers will give you a low value to start with. Just find equivalent vehicles for sale and send them the details.

    If I had the choice I’d have a car with two owners that hadn’t been in a crash, as opposed to doing what may be fairly major repairs to the one I knew about.

    rickon
    Free Member

    They’ll pay you what the Loss Adjuster says it’s worth. They’ll look at the condition (excluding the accident damage), mileage, and the price of similar vehicles in the area.

    If it’s worth £7k, then the loss adjuster will recommend that. But if you’re saying a similar car will be £3k – they’ll pay that. I’m at odds to understand why it would be worth more than double what you consider the market value to be – even if it’s in good condition.

    The easiest way to get an idea of what they’ll pay is to look on auto trader, eBay and Facebook for other vehicles in the condition yours was before the accident.

    aphex_2k
    Free Member

    That won’t get written off.

    I had a Landcruiser + trailer + track car rear end me at 80km/h. Car was fixed. I expected sub frame damage. Hell, airbags didn’t even deploy.

    Soz, but they are very unlikely to write off a repairable car. Regardless of how much you’ve put into it’s maintenance.

    yourguitarhero
    Free Member

    If it’s written off, buy it back and spend the money getting it fixed.

    Wally
    Full Member

    I had this situation. I was parked in a car park at the bottom of Box Hill. 2am a car lost control down hill- hit curb, cleared the hedge, ran over parked car roofs and then back onto road. My bonnet was wrecked and headlights, my Berlingo provided the ramp. Carnage in car park.

    Within my riding buddies was an Arthur Daley. His one huge piece of advice was never ever let the insurance company collect your vehicle if drivable. You drive it to loss adjusters they assign and have a nice chat. When I did this at 4.30pm the guy with clip board visibly cheered up on news that I would like to buy it back as it cut down enormously on paper work. Cat N and £1500 later into my account- fixed for £200 after new bonnet and lights from scrap yard and ran for another two years with my servicing. Tax check shows it’s still going. It made trading it in for peanuts easy as I had already had a payout from it. 160K Berlingo, original owner, immaculate when parked. Citroen/Peugeot hybrid after scrap yard.

    fazzini
    Full Member

    Damage first. Any protruding or sharp edges and the car is deemed* not roadworthy and would warrant recovery to insurer’s repair centre. The average % repair cost to determine if the vehicle will be considered a total loss generally lies between 60-80%, but this figure also includes any provision of courtesy car and admin costs and older cars bring increased costs. *That may be/not be the legal position – I am not a lawyer or police traffic officer, but is the view an insurer is likely to take.

    If it is written off, do some homework as suggested above, and find as many similar vehicles as you can in the usual places including dealerships, to give you a good base for negotiation. It’s a PIA having to do so, would be nice if not necessary, but can help. Glass’s guide is often used for valuation.

    Liability. Even if the TP admitted liability at the scene, that will not always be sufficient. Having a witness, provided they saw the actual collision not just the aftermath, will be a big help. Roundabout collisions are one of the more difficult scenarios to determine clear liability, that, if taken that far, would be more likely than not to win in court.

    Have you got the TPs insurance details? Have they accepted liability? If they have they will most likely want to handle the claim so your insurance doesn’t need to. This could work in your favour with regards to write-off vs repair. Not always but can do.

    Buying back a written off vehicle comes with its own challenges. For example, say its a CAT N (non-structural),the insurer pays you your settlement, they then take ownership of the vehicle and will recover some of their outlay via salvage. Whatever the salvage value is, is now the ‘market value’ of that vehicle. So, let’s say that you receive a £7k settlement, less any policy excess, and the salvage is £1k. You buy the vehicle back for £1k and spend £1k on repairing the vehicle. That vehicle will always be categorised as a CAT N and is recorded on the relevant databases as such.

    You then have another collision (touching wood here as hypothetical scenario and not wishing any ill-fate on you) and the vehicle is written off again. Its write-off value will be market value based on the salvage figure. (There are other possibilities and all insurers have their own approach to these things but that’s generally the view taken and one of the key risks of buying write-off.)

    theotherjonv
    Full Member

    Not an expert and others seem to have better knowledge than me, but just to reiterate DON’T let the insurers push you into using a claims management company, or if you do read the paperwork and challenge everything to minimise the cost.

    5lab
    Full Member

    Its write-off value will be market value based on the salvage figure.

    This isn’t true. A repaired write-off can have it’s value dropped by a maximum of 25% (probably a fair representation looking at used cars), as per the insurance ombusdman

    I expect that’s an easy write-off. Paint alone on that would be well north of a grand for a proper job. You should be able to get salvage back easily enough, but don’t let anyone physically take the vehicle away (even for inspection).

    Can’t see the damage well, but start looking out on eBay for a breaking car of the same colour. Should be able to get wing, bonnet, bumper, headlight for under £100 each second hand, in the right colour so no painting needed. The structure (inner wing) underneath may be a little bent, but I wouldn’t bother fixing that if you can locate the parts well enough. Liberal doses of waxoil everywhere the paint has been broken

    It’s a bit of a bodge, but should be cheap enough that you can just keep the extra for a new bike

    fazzini
    Full Member

    As per @5lab, apologies, note to self don’t write long replies when you are still half asleep! I was actually trying to highlight that future market value is tricky as CAT N and S may be given a lower value in the future, so something to consider.

    I’m going back to bed.

    sharkbait
    Free Member

    Good luck OP.
    On the plus side my daughter’s car was written off by a third party 12 months after I bought it from an official dealer.
    Insurance paid £15 more than I paid for the car originally (and that was 3 years ago)!

    anagallis_arvensis
    Full Member

    If the damage is not structural then usually you can buy the wreck for a few hundred quid from them take the cash and patch it up yourself

    I’ve done this with a motorbike, kept some of the more characterful scratches on various panels and came out on top after a full service!!

    spooky_b329
    Full Member


    aphex_2k
    Free Member
    That won’t get written off.

    Wing, bumper, headlight/indicator, bonnet, perhaps the slam panel, plus paint, plus hidden damage such as damaged wiring loom, number plate arch liner etc.

    For a car that sounds like its valued at £2-3k? Best and likely option is its written off and buy back for your friendly mechanic to repair using a breaker for parts. Might even end up with some cash in hand.

    I’ve heard that you should let the loss adjuster know your desired outcome, you can imagine a lot of the time they will get pressured to write-off a fairly valuable car for not much damage as the driver has already talked themselves into a shinier replacement/

    Rich_s
    Full Member

    OP – don’t forget that you can have it worked on by a repairer of your choice. You don’t have to use admiral’s network.

    They will, however, still need to assess it and you will end up paying a higher excess (probably). If you’re 100% not at fault, this excess can be recovered from the other side.

    mikertroid
    Free Member

    I had this twice: insurers estimated the damage to be >70% of the vehicle’s worth and said it’d be a write off. Both times I disputed the value, pointing them to autotrader prices (think there are less than 10 cars with my engine/gearbox/estate combo) and they repaired it thru a manufacturer approved shop.

    I think there are only 3 panels on the car that haven’t been replaced/resprayed now, but she still scrubs up well for an old timer!

    sharkbait
    Free Member

    Paint alone on that would be well north of a grand for a proper job.

    A friend has a body shop and does a lot if insurance work (so not crap).
    About 5 years ago he was charging the insurance companies £120/panel (that’s probably what they say they will pay).
    So paint on the OPs car is probably in the region of £500 for the insurance company.
    Obvs panels etc might still make it a write off.

    db
    Full Member

    I think that will be written off. As others has said if it means that much to you buy it back and repair it but be aware of its lower future value.

    Not a lot you can do to influence the decision. I was present when my wides mini was assessed. It was written off after be t-boned at a junction. Didn’t look like a lot of damage but once the airbags go off it costs £’s.
    The garage said they could repair much more cheaply if I bought it from the insurance company but why would I want a cheaply repaired car which is flagged as a repaired vehicle.

    There are a long running argument over its value due to the number of options it had like but in the end we got back what we paid for it.

    simian
    Free Member

    Look at ‘Cash in Lieu of repair’.

    It works if you can meet a number of conditions;

    1. the car is not structurally damaged

    2. you can source & fit replacement panels from a breaker OR get it repaired, for what they’re willing to offer

    you need to be 100% on this as once you accept the cash you’re on your own.

    The positives

    1. You’ll be offered the maximum they’d be willing to pay for repair (around 70% of the market value of the car).

    2. It won’t be recorded as a write off.

    3. the car is never handed over to the insurance company, it’s all under your control.

    I’ve done it once, and it was totally worth it IN MY CIRCUMSTANCES (low value but immaculate MX5, damaged wing, door and wing mirror)

    That looks like a lot of damage so think carefully.

    richardkennerley
    Full Member

    It’s already been mentioned, but if the other party are accepting liability, then their insurance should sort it. It’s likely Admiral will tell you not to speak to the other insurance company and make you use their claims management company. Try to avoid this if you can. When and if you get a replacement car, make sure it is a courtesy car and NOT a hire car.

    ceept
    Full Member

    I can’t tell the full extent of the damage from that photo, but having bought a car with very minor cat n damage before (I only needed the engine), then found it was twisted right across the front end, I’d be getting a measuring tape out and measuring diagonally between subframe mounts to check it’s square and checking the tracking before even considering a buy-back to repair quickly.

    TheBrick
    Free Member

    About 5 years ago he was charging the insurance companies £120/panel (that’s probably what they say they will pay).

    That what they pay the sprayer. But the sprayer in probably contracted though a company who manages the repair (owned by the same group as the insurance company of course) this adds some admin charges, then the insurance company adds some more charges and the price on the invoice for the climbis over £250 per panel minimum.

    Rich_s
    Full Member

    It’s already been mentioned, but if the other party are accepting liability, then their insurance should sort it.

    Er, nope. That can be a way of sorting it, and tbf for the op this might be a good way forward if it’s a write-off. No excess, gets a courtesy car from the third party straightaway. But, you’re not a customer of their’s so there’s no come back or protection from ombudsman or regulator.

    It’s likely Admiral will tell you not to speak to the other insurance company and make you use their claims management company

    Much of Admiral’s profit come from their own CMC, IIRC… I wonder why.

    Try to avoid this if you can. When and if you get a replacement car, make sure it is a courtesy car and NOT a hire car.

    +1 if going through a CMC. But if just through your own insurer it can be a combination of these depending on insurer and cover. If claiming direct from the 3rd party then it doesn’t matter if they are paying for it directly.

    duncancallum
    Full Member

    Age? mileage?

    But I’d say that was a write off. It’s also now undrivable

    Could as above buy it back? You mechanical enough to repair it?

    johnw1984
    Free Member

    Yep if it’s a non-fault claim and your with Admiral, you’ll probably be dealing with Auxillis.

    Be prepared to make a few phone calls to chase it up and ask what’s going on. The online portal was useless, but we ended up using their repairer to sort our van.

    Company delivering portaloos reversed into our van that was parked up. He’d come down the wrong way of a one-way street and he tried to squeeze past a car coming the opposite way and scraped the bumper, back panel and smashed a light.

    Company admitted liability straight away and emailed details of insurance over. Courtesy van never materialised, so she used my car for gardening for a couple of weeks.

    All done though now and it went pretty smoothly. Only problem is the rest of the van looks worse that that corner now!

    FWIW our caddy has over 170K miles on it and no service history and they didn’t write it off.

    natrix
    Free Member

    make sure it is a courtesy car and NOT a hire car.

    Not heard about this, what’s the problem with a hire car???

    crazy-legs
    Full Member

    Not heard about this, what’s the problem with a hire car???

    There have been a few threads on here about it. Basically, you end up paying rental for a hire car, even if the funds can ultimately be claimed back from the other side:

    Embroiled in the car insurance credit hire scam

    flannol
    Free Member

    UPDATE

    Thanks all. I really appreciate all the above – have digested it – and will (at least, try to) make decisions based off it

    Turns out 3rd party are also with Admiral. I think this has massively sped things up. They rang me the morning after saying he’d been in contact with them also and admitted full liability, “so it is a simple process from hereon because you are claiming from us”

    I’ve been given a car from Enterprise that Admiral (both who I am claiming from 3rd party, and my own insurer) have said they are paying for

    FMG in MK are ringing me on Wednesday to arrange collection to repair the car. Nice to hear about the caddy above.

    I’m going to fight tooth and nail for repair because the pile of crap brand new suv thing I’ve been given solidifies in my mind this really is the only car that meets my needs (lots of equipment, solid on the road, auto etc blah blah doesn’t matter) needs!

    butcher
    Full Member

    Look at ‘Cash in Lieu of repair’.

    My only experience of making an insurance claim was down this route on a car that was worth less than a grand. I was happy to repair myself and they paid out what was pretty much the value of the car without question.

    My understanding is the reason they would write it off is because of the astronomical costs their approved repairers would apply, even just to keep the car. Also any courtesy cars, etc. Giving you the cash to repair it, either yourself or at an independent garage, is likely to be buttons in comparison.

    fossy
    Full Member

    My ar isn’t worth anything, but it’s 20 years old, and I’ve looked after it for 19 years. Best option if they write it off is to buy back and see what a local body work company will fix it for – hopefully under the insurance payout. Could always source lights/bumper off a scrappy.

    flannol
    Free Member

    ***UPDATE***

    Car has been with FMG at Milton keynes for almost two weeks now. They quoted Admiral for authority:

    “f bumper, moulding and parking sensors, l/f headlamp, l/f wing and splash shield, l/f bracket, wiring loom”

    Admiral authorised it this morning after a bit of chasing up (They are under staffed from isolations) and FMG have already contacted to say they have assigned a technician to it

    So a positive result. And I keep the enterprise hire car until mine is returned. And I have it in in a letter sent through the post from Admiral that they are paying for the hire car

    Objectively speaking it has been very well and seamlessly dealt with and I am very impressed with Admiral.

    Looking forward to getting HMS Sharan back. Thanks all again for advice.

    tthew
    Full Member

    Good outcome for you OP, and I always appreciate proper thread closure! 👍

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