We need a replacement car in a hurry so am planning the s/h route. I want an estate which has a decent enough amount of space but it doesn’t have to be cavernous. It is intended to be a workhorse and will do all the stuff that our old ‘Lingo used to do. Priorities are reasonable economy, reliable, and safe.

Bikes will go on the roof when required.

I have come across a 3 year old Saab 9-3 Sportwagon Turbo Edition 1.9 TTiD (160PS) Sportwagon. Points against…it is an auto but that isn’t a deal breaker. It has 57,000 on the clock and they are looking for £9.5k (local garage)

At the moment, it is that or an Audi A4 Avant 2l TDi 140 PS S Line, 6 years old with 80,000 on the clock but £7.5k.

Anything I should be looking out for or asking?

PS I know nothing about cars really. I just want them to go when I get in, get me to my destination and cause as little trouble as possible.

Okay, SAAB as you probably know is now dead, yes they’re 90% Vauxhall under the skin but there’s a risk there. Also even long before they went under SAAB’s depreciated like pumpkins in November.

As for the Audi that era has the older ‘PD’ engines which were problematic at the very least.

I couldn’t reckomend either really.

Have a look for a Seat Exeo (I should declare I have one, so I’m biased)

When Audi stopped making that Audi they shipped the production line to Spain and let Seat use it because they wanted to make an ‘Exec Car’ but they revised it – so for the same money as that Audi you can have the same car, only newer plus:

It has the later ‘CR’ VAG diesel engines which are head and shoulders better than the ‘PD’ ones. Mine does 50-60mpg on the motorway (when I haven’t got bikes on)

More spec, most Exeo’s especially the estates are top spec Tech SE (leather, lots of toys) or Tech Sport (less toys, bigger wheels).

Better ride and handling – they nicked the set-up from the A6 so they ride smoother and corner better.

NO KNOWN FAULTS it’s one of those very few cars that has zero ‘known faults’ by the time VAG stopped making them they were on the 4th version of the platform and ironed out all the kinks.

The only downsides are they’re a bit of a dogs dinner at the front, it’s obviously an A4 – my mates RS4 looks almost identical in profile (minus the massive wheels an arch extensions – I’m not jealous, really I’m not – can we drop it OKAY!) – but the front looks like someone’s nailed on the front of a Leon and called it JD – it doesn’t really work.

Oh, and they’ll never be worth the same as the A4 version, even though they’re older, more thirsty, slower, with a harsher ride and steering wheel that doesn’t entirely line up with the seats and pedals – the badge sells them.

Thanks P-Jay. I see what you mean but the s/h prices do seem good…..

The SAAB and Audi are at the blingier end of the market. If this is really true –

I just want them to go when I get in, get me to my destination and cause as little trouble as possible.

Then its hard to look past a Mundano

Edit – like this http://www.autotrader.co.uk/used-cars/ford/mondeo/used-ford-mondeo-isleworth-fpa-201409297796396

PS I know nothing about cars really. I just want them to go when I get in, get me to my destination and cause as little trouble as possible.

Then buy a Honda or Toyota with a non-turbo petrol engine. Modern diesels are very likely to land you with a big bill at some point (if you’re buying at that sort of money anyway).

As for the Audi that era has the older ‘PD’ engines which were problematic at the very least

Were they? plenty of 250k+ examples around.

OP are you looking for diesel – or are those the 2 cars you’ve seen? If your doing low miles petrol might be the more economic choice.

If you like the Audi see if you can find an A6 2.7 or 3.0 TDI – we had one and it did 120,000 trouble free miles. The A6 tends to sell for less and is more car (more extras as standard), economy is good you just have to be comfortable with the exterior size.

I don’t know so much about petrol turbo engines but I would be wary, £500 a year road tax ?

Also as above something “boring/mid range” from Toyota will be reliable and practical, we’ve had Yaris/Rav4 and the cars just do the job.

Some info on the Audi 2.0tdi engine problems here, it’s the ‘BRB’ engine you want to avoid really.
http://www.audi-sport.net/xf/threads/2-0tdi-oil-pump-balancer-shaft-problems-the-definitive-guide-audi-vw-skoda-seat.140949/

I’ve got the PD170 ‘BRD’ which has been faultless since I’ve owned it, now on 113,000 miles.

They aren’t quite as economical as the CR engines (I get 45-55mpg on a long run), and are a bit noisier.

Every car has it’s problems, but I don’t think it’s as widespread as people make out.

Then buy a Honda or Toyota with a non-turbo petrol engine. Modern diesels are very likely to land you with a big bill at some point (if you’re buying at that sort of money anyway).

This +1

My 1.6 Petrol C-max is almost as dull as tap water*, but it goes from a2b, holds bikes, and touch wood doesn’t break down. Miss’us has a fiesta which shares the same engine, faultless too so far.

*it’s still a ferari compared to a berlingo.

Don’t be put off the Saab just because they’re out of production. But that’s a very good reason to get them cheaper. And lots of the aftermarket parts are better than the originals. My wife still runs our 55 plate TiD because it is worthless and there’s been no problem getting parts. The key is a decent independent garage you trust and the auto you’re looking at will at least avoid the DMF issues.

I still wish we’d never bought it, but that’s because of it being on 3rd DMF and paying the price for it before Saab went under. It is still really nice to drive.

Another one here with a Seat Exeo ST. I’ve got the 2.0TDi Sport 140bhp, and love it. Very very practical, so comfy, did Manchester to London and back and averaged 59mpg. An Audi, but cheaper! I paid £6k for mine with 70k on the clock. Has all the toys on it etc.

I have come across a 3 year old Saab 9-3 Sportwagon Turbo Edition 1.9 TTiD (160PS) Sportwagon. Points against…it is an auto but that isn’t a deal breaker. It has 57,000 on the clock and they are looking for £9.5k (local garage)

I think that is the twin turbo model. Run away . . .Very fast

Hth
Marko

I wouldn’t buy a car with more than 40-50k on the clock now(keep it 2-3yrs max). Yes diesel cars will run forever but all the other parts imho after 60k + start to fail and you’ll be throwing money at them every month.. Sometimes small things but it all adds up..

I was always suckered by the cars with all the toys/higher mileage/lower price 🙁

Just my tuppence worth 🙂

I think the Saab uses the same 1.9 engine that was in my old Astra as a “1.9 CDTI”. It was the most unreliable car i’ve ever owned and all the problems were with the engine, namely swirl flaps, EGR, turbo pipe peaks, injectors, inlet manifold, ECU blah blah etc. Also DMF, alternator and starter motor. Cost me a fortune.

drove nice when it worked though.

Similar to thisisnotaspoon i now drive a 1.6 Petrol Ford (Focus).

but all the other parts imho after 60k + start to fail and you’ll be throwing money at them every month.. Sometimes small things but it all adds up..

what a load of codswallop lol

In your shoes I’d stay away from a diesel and go for a 1.8 petrol avensis estate. Very reliable comfy and plenty of space.

Thanks…all very interesting….will delve further!

FWIW I’ve got a 2009 Skoda Fabia estate (1.4TDi). Had it since new, now a few miles short of 100,000.

Apart from being serviced roughly when due it’s been appallingly abused (including being used as a working farm-vehicle) and it’s been great. OK the air-con doesn’t do much now, and the parking sensors gave up a couple of months ago – possibly because the sensors are permanently buried in mud (and worse), but that really is the entire list of faults in 5 years.

It’s also big enough for an Orange 5 and a Banshee Prime in at the same time (all wheels on) whilst still being narrow enough for the lanes round here. It’s carried me from Penzance to Aberdeen without batting an eyelid, and has averaged over 55mpg over my whole ownership.

Depressingly (for me), it’s probably only worth £3k tops now, and that would be after spending a couple of days deep cleaning it!

“I wouldn’t buy a car with more than 40-50k on the clock now(keep it 2-3yrs max). Yes diesel cars will run forever but all the other parts imho after 60k + start to fail and you’ll be throwing money at them every month..”

oh absolutely – its better to throw money at finance every month instead of living with niggling faults or repairing most occuring faults for the odd bit of labour at the garage.

the way i read about some folks opinions of cars on here – they would trade their car in rather than change disks and pads because their cars broken innit.

its a balance of risk vs cost vs your mechanical inability vs does your car earn you money imo.

My neighbour has just bought a 55 plate 93 estate, but he does own a garage so is either well informed, or is happy to do any necessary spannering. He also owns an 08 plate Zafira so make of that what you will.

Recently added one of those 1.4tdi Fabias to the fleet and can’t fault it, it feels bigger than the A4, everything is were it should be and built quality spot on. IMO (lifetime working in the motor business) its one of the best cars about.

edit: not sure if its a 1.4 or 1.5 either way its 3 cylinders of the 1.9tdi engine in the a4 but feels more agile due to the reduced weight.

I don’t know much about cars either but I wouldn’t spend anywhere near 10k on a Saab 93.

I know nothing about cars really. I just want them to go when I get in, get me to my destination and cause as little trouble as possible.

This line worries me- you shouldn’t be looking at the SAAB- if it needs work, ideally you’d need to be looking at forums then looking for a specialist nearby to get the work done best.

Why not look at a Ford Focus? A Seat Exeo as mentioned above and does it need to be a diesel?

I only buy none-turbo petrols personally.

Going against what I personally would or wouldn’t do- what about a 2.0T Skodia Octavia petrol? They are supposed to be good engines and Skoda’s good cars?

I ran an 06 Saab 9-3 Sportwagon (1.9 TiD 150PS manual) from 40,000 up to 160,000. It was really pretty reliable over that time too, no biggies, just the usual bits and bobs you expect doing biggish miles over bumpy country roads.

It made a very good family and bikey car. Boot was big (but not huge). We regularly loaded it up with roof box and towbar carrier and it performed very well. I missed a bit of the torque I’ve had in bigger engined diesels but it was fun to drive (in a fairly neutral way) and always ran well (even when it sounded like a bag of spanners towards the end).

It’s a quite and refined drive, without being soft.

We did start to have parts issues towards the end. Everything was in theory still being made, but it actually produced and imported into the country was a different matter. So I did have to resort to eBay breakers for an ignition switch.

I thought I’d hate an auto, but I’ve got one now (Volvo) and don’t really mind it. 57,000 isn’t big mileage for me. All my last 3 cars have gone beyond 150,000, planning on the current one going to 200,000 (and I paid quite a bit for it with over 100,000 on the clock).

That said £9.5k seems a bit steep to me.

With the Saab I was lucky in having that extremely rare thing of a good franchise dealer (I know… I never thought it was possible!) who looked after me really well, didn’t charge me through the nose, were honest about what needed money and what didn’t and were generally just very nice. And that continued after Saab officially stopped. If that hadn’t of happened I’d probably have gone for another one. I find that rural living means that you naturally choose your car according to what local dealers/specialists there are and who is any good, as much as the car itself.

I wouldn’t buy a car with more than 40-50k on the clock now(keep it 2-3yrs max). Yes diesel cars will run forever but all the other parts imho after 60k + start to fail and you’ll be throwing money at them every month.. Sometimes small things but it all adds up..

Hmmmm, that’s not really the case in my experience. Low miles doesn’t mean that there’s no bills waiting to bite you or that a cars been looked after. I’d far rather a high mileage car that has been looked after than a low miler that has been thrashed.

Our E90 has done 86k now and is still fine – flown through it’s last couple of MOT’s with no issues. But I bought on condition and checked up on the service hostory.

I’d be looking at slightly bigger cars like an A6 or 5 series because you’ll get more for your money because they tend to depreciate more than the smaller ones.

This line worries me- you shouldn’t be looking at the SAAB- if it needs work, ideally you’d need to be looking at forums then looking for a specialist nearby to get the work done best.

Saabs aren’t specialist, at all really. A lot of parts are common GM bits and most can be had as pattern or OEM. There’s nothing unusual in how they run or are put together. Any half decent garage would be able to deal with them fine. The Alfas I’ve had made some non-specialists cry, Saabs don’t have any of those sort of quirks to worry about.

“Saabs don’t have any of those sort of quirks to worry about.”

if thats so – why has my mates overfueling issue made Saab specialists cry ?

Mondeo estate or SMax are worth a look. I’ve got an S Max and it’s great for kids, bikes, luggage, taking stuff to the tip, or all of that at the same time.

I would definately get a higher spec one as the poverty spec ones aren’t that nice inside at all

I thought I’d hate an auto, but I’ve got one now (Volvo) and don’t really mind it. 57,000 isn’t big mileage for me. All my last 3 cars have gone beyond 150,000, planning on the current one going to 200,000 (and I paid quite a bit for it with over 100,000 on the clock).

Good luck with that! I called it a day when our Volvo hit 130K miles. The servicing costs were getting ridiculous.

OP- seeing as you have 10k to spend how about this?

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201408226807011/sort/mileage/postcode/ls31aa/radius/1500/onesearchad/used%2Cnearlynew%2Cnew/maximum-mileage/over_100000_miles/page/4170/usedcars?logcode=p

😯

Have had a look at the Exeo. It seems to be a lot of car for the money. Have organised a couple of Skodas to have a peep at too.

We’ll see how it works out in the end, but to replace my Saab 900S (1996 P plate) when it finally died got the stw favourite of Octavia estate – it’s a ’60 plate, was about 20k miles, around £9k. Early days but boot is huge, petrol (due to our mileage) and 1.4 TSI (turbo) (due to when we load it up, we really load it up) and it’s been good so far..

They are quite sought after though. Our local dealer was sh!t. Went 100 miles down the road for one. Will be serviced by local indy garage.

Exeo is an Audi A4 with different headlights, no bad thing.

Im selling this if you’re interested.
http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/fs-mazda-6-sport-estate-1

What can replace a Berlingo? I can get 4 wheelie bins standing upright in the back of mine. Can any other “car” do that?

What are you getting to the gallon from your 1.4TSI kcal?

“Saabs don’t have any of those sort of quirks to worry about.”

if thats so – why has my mates overfueling issue made Saab specialists cry ?

Because they aren’t that special.

SloJo: There is an an excellent Saab specialist in Norwich. Proper no nonsense bloke. Had a problem that Ipswich Saab main dealer couldn’t sort. He diagnosed and sorted it on the first visit. Having said all that I wouldn’t spend that much on a Saab. The interiors and spec have hardly changed over the years so buy a 2008 Petrol Aero Auto or Vector Sport. The runout preceding models came with everything included (07 plate). If you’ve got nearly 10k to spend then you should be looking at T5 Kombis. Swb is the same length/wheelbase as a 93.

@shifter –

What are you getting to the gallon from your 1.4TSI kcal?

I drive pretty sedately; and there’s a lot of town miles; but generally high 30s mpg, if I’m driving say to Central Belt then mid- to high- 40s is easily achievable, if steady driving then can get to 48 – 49 mpg. It’s a 60 – without the blue motion bells and whistles..

Our mileage is about 5-6k and quite a lot of short journeys to town so decided diesel was not the way to go.

Honda accord? Big, cheap and reliable.

I have had three Saabs and two Audi A4 estates. The Saabs are prone to niggling issues and can prove difficult to get fixed unless you know an specialist who is fairly easy to pay. I had a nightmare trying to get the air con fixed without going through SAAB.

The two A4 estates both had PD TDI engines. Both really reliable until quite high mileage. My opinion is that these engines are generally reliable but if something does go wrong then it can work out very expensive to fix.

If you were looking elsewhere I would consider the Exeo, Octavia and Mazda 6. At the same money all would result in a newer car than the Audi and a more reliable car than the Saab.

Thanks kcal. Mrs has a Seat with the 140 Tsi and the mpg isn’t impressing me too much even when I drive it to work. Putting me off going back to petrol tbh.

@ OP – Exeo is a good call. Lot of car for the cash.