Viewing 26 posts - 41 through 66 (of 66 total)
  • Canyon K.I.S. self-centring steering doohicky
  • malv173
    Free Member

    unless it flops

    If it does, I reckon it’ll spring right back.

    Ba dum tiss!

    thisisnotaspoon
    Free Member

    Bikes don’t really self-correct, they just self-‘reduce the error to a point’. But then they fall over.

    https://www.pinkbike.com/v/embed/4263/

    dangeourbrain
    Free Member

    So what I take away from this is its a security upgrade, essentially making it less desirable as its more difficult to ride no handed whilst swigging monster bull and smoking 20 silk cut?

    Beyond that it’s unlikely to serve a purpose?

    tthew
    Full Member

    Beyond that it’s unlikely to serve a purpose?

    It’ll sell a few bikes to the gullible, so actually some purpose. 😁

    dyna-ti
    Full Member

    It’ll sell a few bikes to the gullible

    They know their market well. 😉

    Gunz
    Free Member

    ‘OK guys, we all know that brakes, suspension, frames and drivetrain are pretty much sorted. On top of that we’ve managed to foist on everyone every permutation of new standard wheel size and dropout spacing. What the hell can we do now to invent a requirement that will make them give us more money, let’s blue sky this thing’

    dyna-ti
    Full Member

    What the hell can we do now to invent a requirement that will make them give us more money, let’s blue sky this thing’

    Saddle angle doodah thingy. ? Only £170

    https://www.aenomalyconstructs.com/

    dudeofdoom
    Full Member

    TBH we shouldn’t slag them off for attempting to er innovate on something that isn’t a problem as perhaps one day they will come up with something that people actually really find useful.

    Like dropper posts.

    dudeofdoom
    Full Member

    oh have I er inadvertently posted positivity – id better have a lie-down 🙂

    dday
    Full Member

    But these ‘Deflopilators’ are for bikes with front baskest or brackets when carrying something heavy over the front wheel, making them far more prone to flopping at slow speeds. I was hoping that marketing vid would describe a problem that needed correcting, but it seemed it was more of a ‘look at our innovation; more than anything else. Not sure its comparable with dropper posts or suspension.

    Unless you are planning to carry a picnic basket and/or small dog on the front of an enduro bike.

    ads678
    Full Member

    carrying something heavy over the front wheel

    My bike did that the other week. My bike then followed the heavy object over the front wheel….

    dangeourbrain
    Free Member

    Unless you are planning to carry a picnic basket and/or small dog on the front of an enduro bike.

    A dog on the bars of your Enduro bike? Can you imagine the arguments about offset for the perfect trail hound?

    stanley
    Full Member

    All bikes have “Self-centring steering” built in to their design anyway. Caster and rake anyone?
    Steering dampers calm the effect of this inherent self-centring when greater forces are involved (speed and heavy components… like on motorcycles).
    Anyhow, you don’t always want it to be overly self-centring; think counter steering.

    More marketing drivel I reckon.

    Gunz
    Free Member

    To be fair Dyna-ti, if that saddle thing lets me get ‘rowdy and span distances’ then I am all in

    desperatebicycle
    Full Member

    More marketing drivel I reckon.

    That video, splashing the word EVOLUTION everywhere. It’s just silly. Evolution, I may be wrong here, is a gradual changing of things to better fit their environment, or purpose (in the case of a bike). This hasn’t evolved from anywhere – they just stuck in a new doohicky to solve some issue or other. I bet one of them was riding up something steep and got a bit of wheel wander, started thinking.. ooh springs! What if next time he gets front wheel lift..? ooh, weights?

    DaveyBoyWonder
    Free Member

    There’s a pretty in-depth ride review of it over on pinkbike if people don’t want to just read a ctrl-c / ctrl-v version of a press release.

    jonwe
    Free Member

    Pinkbike review. TLDR. Can’t ride no-hands. Feels odd in corners. Hard to get used to. Solution looking for a problem.

    Cougar
    Full Member

    Probably the most stupid thing I’ve ever seen, today. Bikes already self-centre, if they didn’t then they wouldn’t work.

    HoratioHufnagel
    Free Member

    Probably the most stupid thing I’ve ever seen, today. Bikes already self-centre, if they didn’t then they wouldn’t work.

    It’s very complicated. This bike has no gyro effect and no trail, but it’s still stable.

    darlobiker
    Full Member

    Reminds me of the Mitchell and Webb sketch about toothbrush manufacturers persuading people they need to clean their tongues.

    intheborders
    Free Member

    In the early 80’s we added steering dampers to motorbikes to ‘calm’ the front ends, I had them on 350LC’s. Roll forward 10-15 years and manufacturers had sorted out the geometry/suspension etc to not need them (for normal road riding) and I never felt the need to put one on any of my 90’s/00’s bikes. I don’t ride a motorbike now but a quick Google shows me they’re now back in fashion.

    Maybe MTB’s have got to a point due to geometry/suspension/use that self-centre / dampers are now a useful item?

    I’d suggest until each of us ride one, we won’t know.

    A bit like droppers, discs, wide bars, proper geometry etc etc…

    jameso
    Full Member

    For me this product generated more ‘Hmm, yeah, but, what if’ thinking than anything else for a long time. About how wheel flop is a force resulting from other design needs – front centre length meant slacker angles etc. How it’s a negative at times or a bike with a lot of wheel flop becomes great in some places that most of us want, and really not great in other places (I was working alongside a team who developed a steering stabilser not long ago and tried it on that vehicle, it was very effective and thought provoking generally esp as they’ve been on Dutch bikes for so long already)
    But one area that really makes a bike handle well for me is how positive feedback in the steering (wheel flop force) can blend with with common lean angles for that bike type to create a bike that just carves and curves like it’s the most balanced, natural thing. It’s part of how some bikes are such a joy to ride and it’s like frame stiffness, it’s subjective and depends on how you ride to some extent. So I went from thinking that having some influence / control / ability to neutralise a resultant force while keeping all the benefits of long trail was good, to thinking you risk losing that link between steering influence and lean angle if the spring is pulling back to centre.

    Then I thought how tuning the amount of wheel flop you feel would be interesting since it’s a subjective thing. You might not need to tune it or even understand what the adjustment is doing. But if slacksets are a good thing to tune to taste, so is this if it covers the right range of adjustment. (can you fit a progressive spring to it? Did they test that? Probably)

    Bikes already self-centre, if they didn’t then they wouldn’t work.

    A bike doesn’t self-centre, it’s the opposite. Particularly a slack MTB. The rest position is with the wheel at an angle and that’s what flop is – wanting to rest in that position due to the bike or bike+rider weight. And the self-centre effect of a bike in motion can generate is temporary and such a small force compared to the forces the mass of a rider on top generates.
    As above you can have zero trail and the bike can do that ghostie thing to some extent. That’s the lean and centripetal force balancing up for a moment.
    Gyro effect is the Room 101 type answer about bike stability, it’s not how a bike stays upright. So what we’re left with is rider input as the reason a bike works and the geometry of a good bike aids that process.

    Bikes work because we continually steer into a fall to one side, self-correct then adjust the inevitable over-correction and so on. We never track a perfectly straight line. When not cornering we’re always weaving a little in order to keep out C of G as close to the line between the 2 contact patches as we can (there’s some case law on this that justifies a bike waving in the road as normal).

    jameso
    Full Member

    In the early 80’s we added steering dampers to motorbikes to ‘calm’ the front ends, I had them on 350LC’s. Roll forward 10-15 years and manufacturers had sorted out the geometry/suspension etc to not need them (for normal road riding) and I never felt the need to put one on any of my 90’s/00’s bikes. I don’t ride a motorbike now but a quick Google shows me they’re now back in fashion.

    I think the same thing will happen with e-scooters. Dampers are a feature being introduced now but imho mainly due to geometry negatives that may be resolved in time.

    Maybe MTB’s have got to a point due to geometry/suspension/use that self-centre / dampers are now a useful item?

    They were available ages ago when geometry was steeper and shorter, then geometry made them irrelevant and enabled faster, rougher trails to be ridden – maybe it’s a cyclic thing.

    I’d suggest until each of us ride one, we won’t know.

    Exactly this – there’s only so much we can understand about riding from theorising.

    mrauer
    Full Member

    Cane Creek has been making Viscoset headsets for some time, and those are exactly for damping steering oscillations / eliminating possibility of speed wobble. https://canecreek.com/product/viscoset/

    “Utilizing specially designed damping plates above the bearing in the upper assembly, ViscoSet stops the oscillation known as “speed wobble” before it can grow to a dangerous level.

    The Viscoset’s ability to reduced arm fatigue, provide a more stable ride, and standup to the elements lends itself to a variety of applications including Bikepacking, gravel and ultra-endurance.”

    Put a Viscoset on the Canyon and you have damping and centering!

    jfraser5
    Full Member

    Kinda reminds me of the headset bearings being shot and the steering feels stuck 🙂

    bikesandboots
    Full Member

    Problem I don’t have, but actually a problem I do have that this might unintentionally solve – stop the bike falling over when leant against a wall.

Viewing 26 posts - 41 through 66 (of 66 total)

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