I had a Token screw together bottom bracket put in my Search XR to fix a warranty claim for a loose GXP Press fit BB. No issues after 4000 km and I am a fat knacker who mashes rather than spins.

Less bothered about the colour and press fit bb than by the conservative 72.75 head angle and 73.5 seat tube, with a 25mm setback post! Are these bikes actually meant to be ridden off road? And climb without feeling like you’re about to fall off the back? Rhetorical questions. 70/74 ish with an inline post is where it’s at. Maybe it’s to leave something to improve in a few years for the next model. Seems like bigger brands are overly influenced by road bikes and what their pro roadie team say. Whereas Whyte, Nukeproof, Ragley, Fustle, Salsa, Vielo, BMC have actually thought about what works best.

Less bothered about the colour and press fit bb than by the conservative 72.75 head angle and 73.5 seat tube, with a 25mm setback post! Are these bikes actually meant to be ridden off road? And climb without feeling like you’re about to fall off the back?

Perhaps the marketing is more ‘off’ than the geometry. Look at the bars, the saddle to bar drop etc – this isn’t an off-road bike, it’s a road design adapted for some light off-road use part of the time. If we’re / they’re honest about the kind of terrain these bikes actually cope with those numbers work fine. Sounds like a trad road geometry but the 45mm tyre OD adds some trail, the wheelbase is a bit longer, don’t know what the fork offset is though.
You could go MTB-influence geometry with it and it then flops a bit on narrow rutted jeep tracks and feels odd on tarmac or the front-rear balance may be off on road corners compared to a good road bike. You won’t be smashing through rocky sections or riding it like an MTB for long anyway (well maybe in the promo video) so while yes it could be slacker, I don’t think the agility and light steering feel on roads and byways etc is a bad trade off. Whatever the geometry these are mostly still light, head-down bikes with narrow drops and slim tyres – fat tyred road bikes. ‘off-roading’ the geometry to some extent is the thing to do yes, but in some cases gives you compromised handling on road which is where all of these bikes should feel good, otherwise why bother with a road-like design as a base?
There’s plenty of gravel bikes with MTB-ish geo that riders like and I’m not saying they’re wrong at all, just suggesting that it’s not all or always positive effects if you see these bikes as at least 50% road bike. If you see them as more / 100% off-road then we just differ in opinion or what we want in a bike like this and that’s ok, a large part of these bike’s appeal is that they’re different things to different riders.

To be fair to them though its hardly “and a pink one for the lady” promo shots and videos are all or mostly women riding all th other colours.

Totally. And they have sponsored Jenny Tough (the main lady riding in the video) as part of the launch.

Perhaps the marketing is more ‘off’ than the geometry. Look at the bars, the saddle to bar drop etc – this isn’t an off-road bike, it’s a road design adapted for some light off-road use part of the time.

If so the marketing is definitely off looking at the photos of it being ridden on gnarly terrain from Canyon and Radavist websites. Not to mention ‘Ready for rough stuff’ claim. Seems like there’s not much to differentiate between the Grizl and Grail. Few small details, including to accommodate the Grail’s weird bars, but they essentially perform the same job.

Can’t say I think a 70 head angle would really have any downside even for a road bike. But then I’m used to mountain bikes and anything over 68 handles sharp to me.

Does feel like a bit of a self inflicted punch in the face.

Bearing in mind the bike frame is the same, imagine just having it available in 3 colours (they are direct sales so they can just mark pink in XL as not available if they don’t think they’ll sell) and a “female specific” cockpit pack at nil cost which you choose with a tick box. Wham bam, men who like pink get to buy it, ladies who want the black get to buy it with a female specific saddle. Everyone is happy and you don’t look likes knobs pinkwashig your products.

If so the marketing is definitely off looking at the photos of it being ridden on gnarly terrain from Canyon and Radavist websites. Not to mention ‘Ready for rough stuff’ claim

From the Radavist.

From Canyon’s site.

I had to have a look, was interested. Looks closer to hybrid level terrain than MTB tbh?

What about this, this, this, or this? All hybrid terrain? To be fair a decent flat bar hybrid is more capable than many gravel bikes. Anyway those photos look better suited to some slightly more capable angles to me.

At least Canyon marketing dept aren’t as silly as BMC. Don’t flip bicycle photos folks!

Watch out, we’re not allowed to talk about Grizl

What about this, this, this, or this? All hybrid terrain? To be fair a decent flat bar hybrid is more capable than many gravel bikes. Anyway those photos look better suited to some slightly more capable angles to me.

Is that considered extreme or not suitable for a gravel bike? I’ve been riding the wrong trails then.

Every single one of those photos looks like great fun on a gravel bike.

Anyway those photos look better suited to some slightly more capable angles to me.

They show riders taking it pretty easy on mild XC trails tbh. And one rider bunnyhopping?
Not being obtuse, I just don’t see those pics as a bike being marketed for anything rugged beyond what’s been normal for CX and gravel bikes for ages.
I basically agree with you though – the Arkose used similar longer TT / shorter stem and 45mm tyres a while back but also had a 71.5 HTA. The ride feel was right imo at 71.5 with 50mm offset. I’d have considered 72.5 a bit steep – but not too steep to ride ok, it may have been too steep for the positioning of the bike. 72.5 is endurance road and CX, 71ish is gravel, 69 is MTB-ish drop bar, etc. In reality they’re all limited by the same things whatever the HTA and main geometry aspects.

I ride all of that sort of stuff on a brakeless fixed gear on 28c tyres so pretty sure it would be fine on the fat tyred Grizl.
The geometry of the Grizl looks perfect to me for a gravel bike, i.e. for mostly riding fast on gravel roads. Why people seem to want the geometry of a chopper on their gravel bike always seems odd to me.

I ride all of that sort of stuff on a brakeless fixed gear on 28c tyres so pretty sure it would be fine on the fat tyred Grizl.

There’s a difference between getting from A to B over the terrain and ‘riding it’ though ie riding with speed and flow, creative with your lines and the opportunities etc. I mean, I can ride a BMX on my local trails but it’s rubbish and I’d be way faster, smoother and have more fun at every point along the way on a rigid MTB. I’m sure a good rider could be suprisingly quick on a track bike on fire roads but it’s despite of not aided by the bike.

That’s where I think gravel bike marketing is mis-selling the bikes. You see a lot of riders struggling to let the bike run on even the gentlest of off-road trails and bikepackers really struggling on loaded gravel bikes off-road. Yes they can go anywhere but they don’t flow anywhere.
Marketing has always over-sold things. Not sure this is an example of that but in general gravel bikes seem to be accepted as something beyond what they are, eg look at the start line of the Atlas Mountain race etc.

Is that considered extreme or not suitable for a gravel bike? I’ve been riding the wrong trails then.

No, I’d ride all of that on a gravel bike, and do. I just think 70, as I’ve got, would be a lot more suitable to it than 72.75.

Why people seem to want the geometry of a chopper on their gravel bike always seems odd to me.

70 is chopper geometry to you? Strange 🤔

I’m sure a good rider could be suprisingly quick on a track bike on fire roads but it’s despite of not aided by the bike.

Not true. I am faster on my track bike that I am on an MTB on fire roads, it is a very good style of bike for all year round fire road riding.

70 is chopper geometry to you? Strange

Nope but thetas the way it is going, but then 72.5 is hardly steep for a road based bike either. Remember this is gravel riding we are discussing here not MTBing. Mostly straight lines with corners taken at a speed the tyres allow rather than the geometry.