I thnk the pebbles have emerged over time through the soil in between them being washed away by heavy rains and high volume of traffic. They don’t look like they’ve been added. The only area I find that they’re particularly tricky is the first part of the dog before you split off for the Monkey trail where they pebbles are fixed into the ground and the trail weaves its way through the forest. The rest of the trial you can navigate the slippery parts and you do get some bite if you commit a bit of body weight. Its like anything – it takes a bit of time to get used to and improve your skills. And to say Cannock isn’t flowy, again say’s more about the person writing that than the trail. Like everything in life, practice makes perfect. I can pick holes in all the trail centres i’ve ridden so far, but I tend to think that any issues I have with a particualr trail is down to me and not the trail.

rocketman, I think I know what you’re getting at and to some extent agree as there are a number of contractor introduced features on the trail which may apear randomly placed when you’re actually riding the trail.

In some cases these are valid trail anchors whils tin other cases they are curious, there are also a number of features which could given the benefit of hindsight be altered or have been better located elsewhere but. Now this may only become evident once the trail is ridden as the commnoly used line may ultimately differ form that designed and built.

A good trail designer working with the contractor will pick some of this up but there remains some which will only become evident when the trail is established.

This isn;t to say that the trail is badly designed but there are things that could be done better. The situation may be further highlighted due to the way in which there is a mix on contractor / machine built sections and volunteer / hand built sections.

The nature of the maintenance on the trail is such that it may not always be possible to make the changes we would like to for reasons of time, resource or sign-off by the FC safety / engineering team. Put simply we may need to accept a compromised feature as it is officially approved and in the grans scheme of it it is better to accept the compromise.

This comment doesn’t immediately suppor the negative comments made elsewhere as it doesn’t cover every scenario.

wobbliscott has it regarding the pebbles.

Locally sourced mixed sand and gravel is used to surface the trails. It is sourced either from borrow pits close to the trail sections or from the local quarry who have been first clas in suppoting the developmen of the trails.

As is the way of it the finer sand gets separated and carried away on tyres, wahsed away in the wet or kicked up as dust. This leaves exposed gravel and over time more sand is separated and the stones then break loose leaving a combination of fixed but exposed stones and loose gravel.

The sand content makes the trail succeptible to expansion during freezing conditions which exacerbates the cycle.

It is hoped that by mixed non-local gritstone with it’s more angular aggregate and coarseer sand content that this vicious circle will be dealt with at least in part.

OK thanks for the explanation st. The lack of flow is not intended as a criticism of the official trails it’s just that there is a marked difference between what has been done and what can be done. Not so much in terms of resources or maintenance but more in terms of what you describe as ‘trail anchors’ 🙂

Cannock is my local trail centre and I don’t do too bad, if strava is anything to go by( I know, I know!) I reckon I’m in the top 35% ish!

Anyhow, the only time I’ve really crashed was coming down upper cliff ( the last decent on the monkey)
And this was due to the trail being really dry and dusty and I washed out on a corner.
I don’t think I’ve ever crashed on the pebbles, IMO the trick with those is to run your pressures a lot lower than you normally would elsewhere, fwiw I run mine around 23 psi but then again I’m only 10 st.

I personally like the tight lines through the trees makes things a bit more interesting, I’m sure I’ve still got some bark wedged behind my brake levers from one close encounter! 😆

I also like the addition of sharp, steep, technical or tight section after “flowy” bits! Yes, it’s good to have a section of berms and flow, but then sticking in a change of pace means you have to think about your riding a lot more. It makes it feel more natural to me.

I’ve never really had much of an issue with “braking bumps” either. I’m riding a mountain bike, therefore i should be able to cope with a few small bumps here and there……… 😉

How much trail building do you do Hora?

Morning Will. 😀

Good morning Scruff!

What I wouldn´t give for a few days of groomed trails and pebbles.
This is what we have to put up with round here.

@walleater I paid parking and at the cafe. You dont need to trailbuild in the Peaks and its frowned on upon in other areas. So its not really a valid question as I visit trail centres <once a year.

@sunrider, where’s that? Looks great.

@walleater I paid parking and at the cafe.

So therefore you’re allowed to criticize volunteer’s trail building efforts? Nice attitude.

hora – Member
I paid parking and at the cafe.

Well…fair do’s to you then hora.

I visit trail centres <once a year.

With that wealth of experience you’re clearly well placed to call it out as ‘s h i t’ in your OP. Especially in light of the above…I mean, £3 for parking and having to pay for food and drink! Well it’s practically your right, my son…

[video]http://youtu.be/RxJh2kuEpgw[/video]

Did you GPS the ride?

We’ll said rusty

Sun rider, that looks great to me too. No need for trail centres if that’s on your doorstep!

Personally, braking bumps, pebbles, roots, small / no berms, ‘horrible’ entry to black sections are what makes mountainbiking worthwhile…

If you want to ride ‘places that flatter you’ invent mtb tobogganing as that is what it sounds like!

Long live mountainbiking and not hardcore pruned berms and rollers!

Its not dis-repair, its a bloody trail and we ride bikes with grippy tyres..

I’m slightly glad it doesn’t seem to be only me that likes to go out an find the hardest a roughest things to ride. An then get to the end smiling thinking “Jesus that was hard work”

Sunnrider, I have trail envy. Somewhere in Spain?

mtb tobogganing

Now that sounds like great fun. The speeds would be truely terrifying!

If you want to ride ‘places that flatter you’ invent mtb tobogganing as that is what it sounds like!

And that’s what makes it so fun. I don’t mind techy rocky stuff every now and then but tracks that are fast, bermy and full of jumps (proper ones, not like at Llandegla) are the best.

Each to their own, prefer natural trails myself but in some areas of the country there aren’t any big rocks to fill trails up with and the ground is solid rock. Are trail-builders supposed to transport rocks from the north to the midlands?

Doesn’t mean anyone needs a 140mm bike to ride them mind.

Rode there mid October and had a good time – didn’t notice any real issue with the pebbles, but then I run a big grippy front tyre and am happy with the rear being quite drifty. As for the narrow gaps through trees etc, that’s what it’s all about – I love that “on edge” feeling when you are gunning through stuff like that. It’s how you become a faster rider. Much prefer that than an excessively groomed trail with berms everywhere and “nu skool flow” (read “wheelchair trails with a bit of elevation and a couple of rollers) as it seems to be called all of a sudden!

Well a 29er would be the best type of bike to tackle the Cannock marked trails with, them being XC and all. They are not exactly rad narr, so what’s the problem with 29ers being prevalent there?

andyrm, I’m right there with you. One of the best off piste trails I ride on the Chase has a particular pinchpoint that requires a wiggle to get any width of bars through, narrower than the narrow bits on the Monkey but ace fun. I’ve never properly washed out on the trails and I’d like to think I don’t hang about. The smooth pumpy trails with their easy jumps and progressive berms have their place but only a place.

@wobbliscott @winch

That pic was taken on the descent of Mt Larrun. Last of the Pyrenees, it starts off rocky as hell and later gives way to twisty mountain sheep singletrack.
It really is a full on descent, I was thinking a few easy berms and some pebbles would be a sweet change of pace.

Did any of you lads or lasses leave an EA90 Front wheel next to a silver merc estate a couple of weeks ago at Cannock chase???

Thanks Sunrider. Just added to my MTB bucket list which I need a whole other lifetime to fulfil!

@walleater I paid parking and at the cafe. You dont need to trailbuild in the Peaks and its frowned on upon in other areas. So its not really a valid question as I visit trail centres <once a year.

So you provide nothing to the community and yet bitch and moan about the people who do? Unless anything has changed since I did any trail building at Cannock, Chase Trails don’t see any of the revenue from parking or the cafe.

Re. the Peak District…. I’m sure you’d be welcome to take a fold-up spade / trail tool in your pack and sort out some of the God awful drainage on some of the trails.

I provide nothing to the community? I don’t understand I paid parking. From a few people I talked to there they said ‘no need to pay, theres a free carpark just before the last section of Cup of tea?). I paid parking (and always will at a trail centre, put money into the cafe etc). Its FC land isn’t it? They need to see a benefit to them and I’m sure they provide some materials OR funding at some level to the trails. So I’m not a local letch who has local knowledge and gets a free ride.

Maybe if you think I’m a freeloader you should charge me to ride the trail?

Now the title of the thread, I admit makes me look like a bit of a cock but on Sunday afternoon I was abit pissed off, passionate I’d say as the cliff has great potential as does Deer Skull etc. I didn’t like the pebbles one bit. I found them sketchy. Now I understand about the politics/topography etc but crushed stone is now being brought in for an alternative surface.

I doff my cap to the volunteer work and the next time I’m in Brum I WILL co-ordinate and help you guys too/put some work in.

😕

Holy moly – the chap doesn’t like a few pebbles on the surface of a man made trail but prefers natural trails ?

Eh ?

What’s he going to do when faced with, mud, leaves, snow, ice, moss, random rocks and so on ?

Probably ride them just as badly and blame the trail conditions for not pinning it.

What’s he going to do when faced with, mud, leaves, snow, ice, moss, random rocks and so on ?

In the same post you mentioned this below natural trails. This IS natural trails.

Yesterday I had to climb/make my way over felled trees/branches for 300m’s. Can’t het more natural obstacles than that.

..but you missed the point of my first post completely.

This topic/thread has become cyclic/boring.

Yesterday I had to climb/make my way over felled trees/branches for 300m’s

Need a 29er/fatty for that

I’d love that 29’er Chromag that I mentioned earlier. Noice.