nbt,I sorta agree with BB so I'm not part of 'everyone' neither. i think there's two seperate issues here.
One being the state or design of cycle paths. The other being the right to ride on the road if there's an alternative cyclpath. Being a motorist, motorcyclist and cyclist, I think some 'cyclists' do the cycling community no favours by their holier than thou attitude.

I don't complain about enough cycle lanes. And I don't decide 'for no reason' not to use them, I use the road because it's faster and safer. Two perfectly legitimate reasons.

Agreed. There's a cyclepath along a wide pavement I ride PAST in the mornings. It crosses 3 side roads, which means slowing 3 times and bumping up and down 6 kerbs on a panniered-up bike (i.e. No bunnyhopping possible!) then goes through 2 sets of lights before ending on the wrong side of the road (For me) at a roundabout.

I generally use it at first to keep moving, wait for a gap then cross to the correct side of the road to carry on. It's a no-brainer: When you leave for work at 6.15am, you don't want to be faffing around, see?

Said cycle path looks like it's designed to get people to and from Farnborough Main station, but I'm not going there. It does get a lot of use though, so seems to be good for 99% of users 🙂

And cyclists complaining about other cyclists using the road – if it wasn't so sad you'd have to laugh.

-1

You're assuming that everyone who owns a cycle is a cyclists. I own a dishwasher, I'm not a **** dishwasherist and I'm very unlikely to agree with anything a militant dishwasherist has to say.

Whaever the debate about using cycle lanes and their adequacy, there's no justification for trying to run a cyclist off the road. EVER

Ironically, you can't actually cycle on some cyclepaths for legal reasons. The footway need to be made into a cyclepath or shared use path by order but most local authorities don't bother with this and just drop some paint and a few signs on it. In which case, you can still get nicked re the 1835 Highway Act for using a carriage on a footway!

there's no justification for trying to run a cyclist off the road. EVER

Nahh, but it hones your reflexes in the morning and keeps your blood boiling when it's cold….. 🙂

I was a little amused and felt sorry for his dog, bouncing into the roof of his car as he fly over the speed bumps….

Because its near a school and full (and I mean full) of kids so its almost impossible to ride at any reasonable speed.

fair enough, i'd have ridden on the road too, worth pointing out the children angle when explaining the motorists speed and lack of care to the rozzers

Good point rocket dog

The Government advice IS! to use the road when exceeding 18mph

http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/+/http://www.dft.gov.uk/consultations/archive/2004/ltnwc/annexdcodeofconductnoticefor1688

+1 brooess
BB=Cock +1

I ride to work on a cycle path for 12 miles which is segregated from the road. It's great and there is no way I would ride on the road alongside the path in the dark. But in summer when I do occasionally ride the road it's a whole lot faster – smoother tarmac and no need to look for glass. But I'm lucky in that the path goes from a town to a city with nothing but a moor in between and there are only 2 junctions on the path which are easy to negotiate and only the occasional broken bottle thrown from a car (which says a lot about what the public think of cyclists).

What was the reason for not using the cycle path?

Well for a start there is freedom of choice, if it’s the usual path it will have lots of junctions where the joining road has right of way, be covered in glass and a crap surface. I occasionally see someone riding on the moor road in the dark and wonder why they bother with the stress and danger but it’s up to them. I wouldn’t do it where a decent path is available but that’s my choice.

What was the reason for not using the cycle path?

Just because you're a **** and you wated to cause that exact reaction?

I rarely use cycle paths because they are, pretty much without exception where I've seen them, more dangerous than the road. Even the off-road paths I used to use to get to work (after being repeatedly "bullied" into using them by drivers throwing bottles/food/rubbish at me and yelling) were/are dangerous – broken every 2-300 yards at times by a side road/slip road from an NSL road, even if you weren't almost taken out by traffic flying up to/off from the NSL road you'd spend at least 20 minutes longer on the commute just standing and waiting for traffic to pass and half the time when you were half way across someone would wazz round a corner and beep at you. Of course you have to dismount at each of those junctions too – pain in the neck when it's over 10 miles long. Then of course you still get spat out onto the NSL road part way along anyway, where cars have not been used to there being bikes for the previous 10+ miles so aren't expecting you. In town there are 2-300 yard strips of green lane, parked all over meaning you have to pass the parked cars, nip in and out of the green laned area effectively leaving and entering the main traffic all the time – it's nearly as bad as hopping on and off the kerb for drivers.

Cycle lanes are not the way forward IMO. They may work nicely in the odd circumstance, but for someone wishing to commute a distance with them rather than just tootle 1 mile to work in a city centre with stopped traffic. Even at rush hour I'd rather ride the NSL dual carriageway than on the cycle lane, if there was a little more tolerance and respect.

We need to promote tolerance and respect, not segregation. The reason we have so little respect is because car-only drivers think we are not traffic and should be out of their way on our own little lanes. Get bright lights (they're cheaply available) and get on the road, IMO.

We need to promote tolerance and respect, not segregation. The reason we have so little respect is because car-only drivers think we are not traffic and should be out of their way on our own little lanes.

Here, here. Well said that man! 🙂

On a similer note, do you have to use a pavement if one is provided. I hate running on pavements and will often run on the side of the road. Now that really winds up motorists !

Come on now, none of this sensible talk, you'll kill the thread! 😉

"You're assuming that everyone who owns a cycle is a cyclists. I own a dishwasher, I'm not a **** dishwasherist "

Does that mean you don't use your dishwasher? In the same way you don't use your bike?

On the commute from my old house i didn't use any cycle paths as they made you give way at all junctions and even some of the private drive ways which means that you can't get into any kind of rhythm and the road is a 2 lane one that the traffic doesn't move that fast on. On my new route there are a couple of paths that i use that are fine in that you can ride them with out having to stop and they keep you off fast moving busy roads so do use them. the rest of the time i ride on the road which is the right place for a bike.

We need to promote tolerance and respect, not segregation. The reason we have so little respect is because car-only drivers think we are not traffic and should be out of their way on our own little lanes.

+1

We need to promote tolerance and respect, not segregation.

I dunno about this; tolerance and respect, great, but a decent off road cycle path can't be a bad thing. The one I commute on most of the time is infinitely more pleasant and much safer than the horribly congested road alternative.

Cycle lanes are not the way forward IMO. They may work nicely in the odd circumstance

Like a lot of major towns in Belgium, Netherlands & Denmark?

Like a lot of major towns in Belgium, Netherlands & Denmark?

aye, where they are designed well….a bit like Stevenage if you ever have the pleasure. Cycle Paths in Stevenage are absolutely fantastic but in most other places over here they are crap.

Its not "cycle lanes bad" its "badly designed roads bad" and that includes badly designed cyclepaths.

Well designed roads and cyclepaths / lanes could easily improve safety at little or no cost.

Today is feed the trolls day! Yippee! 🙂

Ricochet rob – is that the stretch before you get to the mini roundabout where you go left to the moors estate? Or through the estate before you turn onto lower way. You mentioned speed humps so i'm assuming the former.

Like a lot of major towns in Belgium, Netherlands & Denmark?

Although you'll notice that some of the research that found cycle lanes to be more dangerous than riding on the road was actually in the Netherlands. When they were proposing forcing people on bikes to use cycle lanes if available – which they in the end decided not to do, given the evidence that it was more dangerous to use cycle paths than roads even in the bike friendly Netherlands.

Its not "cycle lanes bad" its "badly designed roads bad" and that includes badly designed cyclepaths.

Well designed roads and cyclepaths / lanes could easily improve safety at little or no cost.

Is that really true – if they designed places with cyclist priority, ie. designing the cyclepaths before the roads, then maybe they could do things better, but that would require zillions of pounds, and would generally only work in new towns. Otherwise they'll still have the problem that people on cycle-paths crossing side roads / junctions are way less safe than people on the road riding past the side road.

Joe

http://karlmccracken.sweat365.com/2009/11/05/cycling-manifesto-in-pictures/

Beej,

Yep, the former. Station Road I think…

Does that mean you don't use your dishwasher? In the same way you don't use your bike?

It means I don't define myself by a possession or feel any kind of affinity for other users of a similar possession.

And… I immediately assume anyone who does define themselves by a possession is a mindless peer-pressured cock.

my commute is about 6 miles. roughly the first half is an off road cycle path – away from traffic, along side a river and a new build estate. it's not as quick but it is very pleasent. the three miles go by without incident.

then a one and a half mile hill, on the road 40mph/nsl – the road is wide and i rarely hold anyone up as there is normally room to go by me – i only occasionally have problems here.

final 1.5 miles shared use pavement – with 3 side roads – loads of wet leaves – it is crossing the side roads here that is dangerous – i know of two people who have been injured on here.

IMO the separation/ shared space of cars& bikes is not the problem but when the two meet.

I wish there were more facilities like the first 3 miles of my commute.

I think we should immediately divert all funding for cycle lanes in the edge of the road to a massive publicity campaign informing drivers that cyclists do NOT belong in the gutter and the default is NOT that cars come straight past them.

Drivers, and quite a lot of cyclists for that matter, simply fail to understand. Do not ride right in the edge of the road, and do expect plenty of space to your right. Cars can come past when the rider decides it is safe to let them.

cyclist noun the rider of a bicycle, motorcycle, etc

(Chambers)
Sorry 5th you are a cyclist, just as when you are driving a car (presuming you do) you're a motorist. Interestingly chambers don't have dishwasherist maybe they think it's a bit silly.

No-one expects all cyclists to be of one mind but I think aP was pointing out that one cyclist slating another for legitimatley using the road is a bit out of order.

5thElefant – Member

Does that mean you don't use your dishwasher? In the same way you don't use your bike?

It means I don't define myself by a possession or feel any kind of affinity for other users of a similar possession.

And… I immediately assume anyone who does define themselves by a possession is a mindless peer-pressured cock.

What a load of tosh – all those folks sat in their cars are, by definition based on their possesion, DRIVERS….. oh, hold on, perhaps I do agree with you – in a convoluted way…..

DailyMail.com must be down today….. given some of the tripe posted on here.

My commute includes about 6 miles of off road cycle lane – and very pleasant it is too, provided you remember to dodge the dog walkers, extending leads and piles of dog turd.

However, the last 2 miles are in city centre traffic, and the cycle lanes are an absolute joke – far safer to be in the traffic flow taking a visible presence in the centre of the lane.

As has been posted – more cyclists in the traffic flow = more driver awareness (hopefully)

Some of Cardiff's cycle lanes are actually narrower than the width of my bars, and have been robbed from the traffic lane – in a car, it is simply not possible to drive within the marked lane without encroaching on the marked out cycle lane.

There are some places where the cycle facilities are very good – I used to live in Lancaster which has good sections of well signposted, completely separate cycle lanes alongside the river. As a result people used them regularly and there was safety in numbers.

Unfortunately most councils don't put cycle lanes there for the cyclists, it's done to use up the last bits of the "green transport initiative" budget before it gets taken away at the end of the year.

There's no legal requirement to use cycle lanes even when they are there. If you take that argument to it's logical conclusion you could point out to motorists that they're not using the motorway that's been so thoughtfully provided for them.

I don't define a cyclist by ownership more like the actual action of cycling. But then what would I know, as I've commuted by bike since 1986.

In addition to the yellow button above, stw seems to have acquired a cock detector. It's working very well…

Sorry 5th you are a cyclist, just as when you are driving a car (presuming you do) you're a motorist. Interestingly chambers don't have dishwasherist maybe they think it's a bit silly.
No-one expects all cyclists to be of one mind but I think aP was pointing out that one cyclist slating another for legitimatley using the road is a bit out of order.

I'll play along with your enthusiasm for classification.

What you appear to be forgetting that cyclist and mountainbikists are different. Mountainbikists don't ride in traffic and don't necessarily see road cyclists as anything other than a suicidal road hazard. Which might put into context "slating another for legitimatley using the road".

Not that I have a problem with the OP or how he was riding. It's the we're all cyclist and think the same crap that gets on my tits.

Well it's all those audi driving IT middle managers. 😉

Mountainbikists don't ride in traffic

I think you're confusing people who ride exclusively at trail centres with mountain bikers.

I think you're confusing people who ride exclusively at trail centres with mountain bikers.

I think you're ignoring the fact that, to the general public, we're all CYCLISTS. Everyone from the chav on the BMX skidding round the shopping centre car park to the granny on the shopper to the besuited businessman on a Brompton to Chris Hoy on the Bran Flakes ad and every possible niche in between.

I think you're ignoring the fact that, to the general public, we're all CYCLISTS

Never said we weren't.