It’s not so hard, is it?

Well, it’s not simple, as all the gross simplifications in your post make plain.

There’ll be a process to claim back refunds of duplicated Vat.

If the seller in Europe charges (EU)VAT then presumably the buyer in the UK will need to contact the seller to get the refund. The buyer may need to provide evidence of the (UK)VAT being charged to them (by the courier) to help explain to the European seller that VAT charges have been duplicated.

If the courier charges (UK)VAT on top of the price of the goods+(EU)VAT then that’ll be a ball ache to sort out. The buyer would then not only need to contact the seller to claim a refund of the (EU)VAT and request an updated invoice, but the buyer would then need to claim a refund off HMRC of the extra (UK)VAT that had been paid on the goods+(EU)Vat. The original invoice from the seller plus the invoice from the courier will be the evidence required.

I’m no authority on this but these would be the steps I’d attempt to follow.

The duty and courier charge are things that everyone that has purchased goods from outside the EU pre-Brexit should be used to anyway but with the slight variation on duty dependent on the goods origin of manufacture.

That buyer above who claims to have received goods having not paid any VAT should (I hope) receive a letter in the post from Parcelforce demanding the UKVAT is to be paid.

Some real life examples in this article…
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55734277

The part has just been delivered and I’ve not been asked to pay anything further; seems like I’ve got away with one!

From distant past experience when I used to import stuff often from outside EU, Parcelforce I was in the clear if they haven’t demanded I pay on receipt, but almost always they charged me if it was due, and the handling fee was twice that of Royal Mail.

Royal Mail was a lottery depending what gets selected for charges, but most stuff avoided it.

All the other main couriers either charged up front or sent me a bill later and I’d always get charged. Some also made their own judgement on value rather than what was declared.

Unless I really needed insurance of a courier I tried to get the sender to use something that would arrive via Royal Mail (eg in US, USPS usually okay, but avoid any option for express or expedited delivery as that came via ParcelForce once in UK).

It’s the handling charge that is the killer for relatively low value purchases. Basically if the EU business doesn’t collect the VAT for the UK gov’t( and I doubt unless they do a lot of business with the UK they’ll bother) then the courier will do it and add their exhorbitant charges ..even if the vat is £2 making a £20 purchase perhaps double once arrived.

We faced the same issues living in Switzerland and importing from the EU. The only sure fire way to know is to buy only from vendors that take care of all shipping/importation charges etc at time of purchase (or at least make it very easy).

This turned our to be pretty much all of the main ones (CRC, germans, French etc) for bike stuff, and shops like M&S, next etc.

I am not a Brexit fanboy, but if EU companies could get it sorted for the tiny amount of custom in CH, they will pretty quickly get it sorted for the UK. They will get there soon, it’s just new.

The Guardian has had a go at explaining it:

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2021/jan/21/eu-website-purchases-the-import-charges-uk-customers-have-to-pay?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

I supect you were in Switzerland before Jan 2019, big_scot. Since then the VAT rules have become much like the post Brexit rules for the UK: VAT paid to the courrier if you buy from a company that sells less than 100 000SF into Switzerland, only bigger companies pay it direct. Same problems with VAT being billed twice and with deliveries coming from different countries to where the order was placed. Amazon gave up on selling goods into Switzerland because of the complications and I believe they’re quite big.

https://www.tdg.ch/suisse/achats-ligne-tva-couter/story/11521738

Hi just posting this here as the cougar closed my topic.

Where I work we send out branded promotional materials to lots of events around the world including the EU. When we post to China we have to list what’s in each box.

I’m now being told that posting to the EU I’ll have to list what’s in each box and each items country of origin. Is there any truth to this? If there is I imagine a lot of these materials are made in Asia but possibly have the branding done in the UK in which case that muddies the water a bit.

The materials are given away for free but obviously have a value. I’d like to avoid having to further paperwork as it gets shoehorned into my department.

Do FREE materials even incur import tax?

Thanks for any advice.

Do FREE materials even incur import tax?

Import to UK, maybe. They would be treated like gifts I would think. Gifts still attract duty (though can have a higher allowance before due, but it has to be for personal use for that).

The recipient hasn’t paid for them but there’s a value and depends on the value and duty rate for the item. Then VAT is chargeable on shipping and fees even if not the item itself.

Duty itself is largely about competition and leveling the playing field. If an item is produced in the same country the duty on an import may be high else it could undercut the local price. If it’s not made local, the duty may be low.

I pretty much guessed it would be a shit show, I bought a bike from Germany for Xmas for my daughter, it was pretty easy, frankly it was harder swapping the brakes over.

Now I can’t do that, I have to ‘import’ a bike from Germany.

I guess it’ll go one of a few ways, we’ll stop buying stuff from retailers in the EU as it’s a lot of faf or prohibitively expensive, which I’m sure was the goal of some Brexit supporters, or smart retailers will be able to calculate the full cost for us and effectively collect UK VAT on our behalf and pay it onto the courier, or whoever else.

Personally, I think the days of buying up cheap bits from EU retailers, or frankly EU retailers who sell the little odds and sods the UK retailers don’t want/like to sell is over.

I wonder how this is for CRC, they’re based in NI aren’t they? Both in and out of the EU at the same time (is that right) does it give them a trading advantage, or a logistical and paperwork nightmare. Can they land stock in the Republic and simply drive it over the open border to the UK?

This sort of shit won’t make the papers, and yeah Leaver voters tended to be older and less Tech savvy, I doubt many will notice unless Wayfair are based in the EU.

When we post to China we have to list what’s in each box.

The process is now the same. You should have been declaring country of origin etc on those already.

If this is a single pen etc. In a “look what we can do”, it’s commercial samples and there’s are specifics which apply.

I wonder how this is for CRC, they’re based in NI aren’t they? Both in and out of the EU at the same time (is that right) does it give them a trading advantage, or a logistical and paperwork nightmare

Second option. NI has been screwed. Brexit has likely done more for a unified Ireland than anything else in the last 100 years.

More articles appearing on BBC re all this bollocks and how disgruntled both customers and vendors are with the whole thing . Dutch bike bits for example are now exporting to every country in the world except the UK as HMRC want to charge businesses in the EU to collect VAT on their behalf.

lmost any item will have VAT applied to it. There are some things like helmets, and items with a value (including shipping) less than £15 which are exempt, but in the main, there’ll be 20% VAT.

VAT charged on items under £15 now, no exceptions or waivers.

Thanks @dangeourbrain comercial sample is a good term. Something I can look into further.

I can’t promise they’re good specifics but you do declare them differently…

I believe Wayfair are based in Germany.

VAT charged on items under £15 now, no exceptions or waivers.

So on any purchase, however small , if VAT is due but not collected by the EU vendor you can expect an extra handling charge which could be up to £20 ( figures of £12 to £15 seem common ) for the courier / postal service collecting the perhaps miniscule amount of Tax owed? This is ridiculous.

As it stands, any non-UK business selling into the UK, has to register for UK VAT and charge the customer VAT for any goods with a value less than £135.

Over £135, it’s up to the customer to pay the import duty/VAT (along with the inevitable courier handling fee).

The only part of this that is actually Brexit specific, is the UK have introduced it 6 months ahead of the EU – https://www.pwc.ch/en/insights/tax/new-ecommerce-eu-vat-rules-july-2021.html

Ultimately, it’s to stop imports from being under declared, and level the playing a bit for EU based companies who are fully declaring goods values.

Good explanation MC. I hate brexit but most of the complaint aren’t due to brexit. I think it will get better once everyone gets used to it and efficiencies and competition lowers courier charges.
I’m still in the dark to whether any of our EU customers have been charged fees as well as import vat so it’s equally as opaque the other way round.

As it stands, any non-UK business selling into the UK, has to register for UK VAT and charge the customer VAT for any goods with a value less than £135.

How is that going to be policed?! Loads of sellers won’t register because of the hassle/ costs or simply that they can’t be bothered. I’m sure they’ll still accept your order though and then you’ll be forced to pay the heavy “handling” charge on top of a possible miniscule amount of VAT that’s due once it arrives in this country. Johnson said VAT will be collected by the vendor but that’s bullxxxx…they’ll only do that if registered and small vendors offering more choice may not be interested in doing so .

From what I understand, it’s essentially going to be the same as what was introduced for digital goods a few years ago, whereby you have to pay VAT in the country of consumption, not the country of sale.

I’d imagine policing will be done randomly as it is just now, but for the big sellers, it simply won’t be worth the risk of all their shipments being targeted, because they’ve be found to be fiddling the figures.
My last major shipment from China got held up for two days, as the container it was in was targeted by customs due to another shipment within it, so the transport company couldn’t open it until customs could remove the targeted shipment. (my part of the shipment came in at 2.3tonne, so I’m guessing it was held in a bonded warehouse until customs were on site to witness the unloading)

Even prior to this, if customs suspected something had been underdeclared, they could apply market value to the goods. You can try arguing, but if a quick google search shows the goods typically cost £100, and it’s only declared as £20, you’re going to have a hard time arguing otherwise, unless you can produce a verified commercial invoice saying it only cost you £20.

For smaller sellers, it’s going to make selling direct a very big headache.
It’s going to benefit any marketplaces that invest in the required processing greatly, as eBay/Amazon/Etsy/Shopify etc will handle it all for you, as most will have already been doing it for sales into Australia. I sell on eBay, and any sales into Australia, eBay already add the required tax to the sale, and immediately deduct it from my account, without me having to do anymore than I would for any other order.

I hate brexit but most of the complaint aren’t due to brexit.

But, it is. This wouldn’t apply to the 27+ countries that we trade most with, at all. We already had the VAT rules sorted and stable within the EU… if it wasn’t for Brexit this VAT change would only effect imports from distant countries.

But, it is. This wouldn’t apply to the 27+ countries that we trade most with, at all. We already had the VAT rules sorted and stable within the EU… if it wasn’t for Brexit this VAT change would only effect imports from distant countries.

Erm..as of the 1st July, it’s going to apply within Europe as well…

You mean “into” the EU.

Selling between EU countries remain unchanged.

If we were still an EU country, we’d be buying/selling with all of them the same as before new year, and still would be post the extended OSS changes due later this year.

Nope.
Within the EU.

Essentially, anybody within the EU will have to pay VAT (or the equivalent) at the rate of their own country, not the rate of where they’re buying the goods.

As I said in a previous post, it’s essentially going to be the same as digital goods, so no more buying something in Ireland/Luxemburg with their minimal VAT and not at the higher VAT rate of your own country.

It will still operate much as MOSS though, paying in your home country, rather than registering and paying to another country.

That’s interesting MC ..(re a similar scheme being applied to each separate country within the EU ). You’d think that all the software/ systems would have been sorted by now and adding in the UK would simply be a little extra work. Although I’m not pleased re the extra charges it’s the handling charge that I can’t swallow particularly on small purchases. I remember buying 2 small bottles of vitamin type product from the states for something around £18 which was a good saving on the £35 in this country. On arrival all the extra charges were added on and it ended costing more with the courier stinging me for an extra £15 just for handling.On other occasions to be fair there’s been no extra charges as they seemed to have slipped through. My situation involves peanuts ( as that’s all I have) but I see with the Covid situation on top affecting couriers /transport there’s a lot of unhappy buyers and sellers everywhere.

It’ll be one scheme, multiple rates. For intra-EU trade, you’ll continue to pay your VAT locally, but declare who for and at what rate. For third countries, you can pay to one EU country, and declare to them who for and at what rate. So, if you are a UK company you will pay VAT to HRMC and to the revenue collectors of one EU country… rather than just to HRMC. Easy enough for the big general retail companies… a headache for a nation of shop keepers relying on selling beyond the British borders to achieve the sale volumes required for their specialisation to work.

Anyone else brought a bike from Propain and received an update on their order? I brought a Propain Spindrift mullet in October 2020…. still waiting to receive it, and now they are saying I am liable for an additional 14% Import Duty + 20% VAT, and looking at DHL they will now charge an additional 2.5% on the import duty as well!

Seems insane how Propain are saying the bikes are liable to an additional 34%, yet Canyon have all duty and import taxes included? Putting this on top of a £5.5k bike just isn’t affordable, nor value for money!

Any advice would be great.

Walk away

Wouldn’t that mean you’re paying VAT twice, EU and UK?