I am about to take the leap and buy a van to convert into a camper with a bike storage space.
I need 5 sleeping spaces, but the 3 kids could share a big double.
I have decided a rock and roll bed might be good but there seem to be many with no crash testing.
Any help, thoughts, pictures would be great!!

for five without a pop roof,. I guess you’re considering bunkbeds across the rear? There’s also cab hammocks aswell

http://www.vw-beds.com/products/cab_bunk.html

My T4 is a proper conversion so has an approved rock and roll bed in that runs on tracks. Space for two more in the roof though.

don’t muck about.

http://www.kiravans.co.uk/rib-campervan-seats.html

How big a van have you bought for this? If you want 5 folks and any useable space I hope it’s a big one! Having had campers and conversions before for a 5 berth I’d want the biggest sprinter/iveco/crafter you can get. Garage at the back for bikes etc with kids all sleeping on top, l shaped seating area for living on and converting to a double for you to sleep on. That’ll leave a bit of room for some kitchen units, more so if you cover half the side door over with them (no reason not to).

Have thought about this a few times and think with 5 bikes (even kids bikes) you definitely need to start with a high top long wheel base van. I looked at lots of top end conversions just to get ideas and see how things were laid out. One of the nicest i have seen was done by Mclaren. It has a garage in the back about 3/4 height to roof. The inside space uses the area above the garage as a bed. There are some pictures here.

http://www.adtrader.co.uk/yorkshire-and-the-humber/west-yorkshire/pontefract/caravans-and-camping/motor-homes/mercedes-benz-sprinter-311-cdi-mclaren-sportshome-2200cc-manual/134126_400

http://www.sprinter-rv.com/2011/05/14/best-sprinter-toy-hauler-ever/

39 k is a bit steep tho!

I’ve got a RIB bed in the back of my T5 Camper – a three seater – it’ll sleep 3 kids easily or maybe 1 adult and 2 kids. It wasn’t cheap but is crash tesed and very well made

Which RnR bed did you go for for the T5, if you don’t mind me asking?

Its one of these:

http://www.vw-interiors.co.uk/#/rib-altair-3p-bed-seat/4536177341

had it fitted (not from the supplier in the link) when I had the van converted just under 3 years ago.

They are expensive but IMHO worth it – my kids travel on it so safety was a priority and they are really comfortable to sleep on.

My T5 has a conversion from Amdro. Iwan, the chap what owns Amdro, has three nippers, and they all go camping in one of his vans.

http://www.amdro.co.uk/

Nice chap too, worth giving him a call. He can supply the kist to fit yourself (like I did) or do the lot for you. Has some vids on YouTube too which show the vans in action.

The conversion also keeps a ‘fixed’ boot space, which means that you don’t have to shift loads of stuff out to make up the beds. I travelled around Europe for six months in one this summer, from pi$$ing down freezing Norway to hot and sunny Romania with my good lady, can totally vouch for the quality and useability of the kit.

Brilliant replies and very reassuring.
I am aiming to buy a LWB and high top and create this garage.
I have 3 kids so really want a crash tested bed.
Has anyone tried a company in Newton Abbott that make R and R beds that are crash tested.
Has anyone put in captain seats in front?

An Amdro conversion of a LWB Hightop T5 would give you tonnes of space for nippers and bikes.

Can’t answer any of your questions, but can suggest you ask on Motorhome Facts.com
Lots of peeps on there that have done self builds etc. You are allowed 5 posts before you have to pay membership, so that should be enough to pick up a lot of tips and good advice.

I’ve been a member for a few years now and the advice regarding all sorts of related subjects (campsites, routes, van probs, ferries, etc etc) has been priceless to me.

I had bunkbeds across the back of my LW Hightop ducato. COuld easily have put 3 in with a bit of planning.
The seat then formed the double bed for me and Mrs J. Its the seat that needs to be crash certified, if you do it that way.

I recently had a camper on hire – it had the rock and roll seat / bed.

However it rather looked like in a crash the only restraint was the seatbelt – so the belt would be stopping you and the seat. didn’t look that safe to me

The test isn’t actually a “crash” test. It is a static pull on the seat and anchorages (we used to have a rig at work for doing the tests).

You need a seat tested to M1 loads – the only ones I’d consider are Rib, Scotseats and Reimo. Rib probably looks nicest / best match for original seats. Scotseats is made in UK. Reimo I think needs floor tracking (which must be installed properly) and I think needs upper anchorage in vehicle shell (I could be wrong on this). I’ve not heard of your Newton Abbot company – they could be OK – ask for test evidence and make your own judgement.

Off the top of my head, the load was equivalent to 20g deceleration of seat and occupant mass (So a lot of load! It usually trashes the test seat and bodyshell).

The installation is therefore just as important as the seat – i.e. lots of load spreader plates, under floor reinforcement, high tensile bolts etc. A few big washers on the seat bolts is NOT enough – walk away from anyone that says it is without test evidence! A really reputable company might have details of a fully tested installation (i.e. seat and vehicle shell tested together). VW is a very common conversion so the manufacturers listed above might have fixing kits that have already been tested.

I know it is expensive but cutting corners will always leave a nagging doubt every time you strap the kids in.

There’s an article in this months VW camper and bus out yesterday on seats with a crash test.

The ex-network rail transits are usually LWB, high-roof with a ‘garage’ section in the back with kettle/water boiler, hand washing facilities and microwave. The seating area in the middle would need need ripped out and replaced with your RnR bed then I’d suggest L shaped bunks around the top area. Might still need one of them to sleep on the front seats but there’s plenty of room there.

I was having a look at one at the weekend, it’d be fantastic for me for events but way too big for normal weekend biking.

http://www.vancentrelarbert.co.uk/24005/used-vans.htm

I seriously doubt you’ll get a van with enough room inside for 5 people, bikes and kitchen/bathroom style facilities. If you don’t have certain facilities – toilet, running water, seating area and table all spring to mind – you can’t register it as a camper. If it’s not registered as a camper you’ll probably not be insured to sleep inside it (this was what I found out when I looked into it).

Only van you might manage to fit everything in is something like a Transit Luton, always wondered how they would work as campers – actually scrap that I don’t think you get a dual cab that could seat 5.

I’d also suggest a cheap pop-up gazebo that you could put by the door as an entry/seating area.

If you don’t have certain facilities – toilet, running water, seating area and table all spring to mind – you can’t register it as a camper.

You don’t need a toilet to register as a motor caravan. From memory from doing mine it needs a sink/running water (but on a pump from a tank is fine), a ‘fixed’ stove (mine is an alcohol burner that can be removed), a fixed table (but it can fold away or be removed), a fixed bed (but it can be folding) and windows in the back.

Reregistering it also ups the applicable speed limit on a dual carriageway from 50 (for a panel van) to 60. Also some insurance companies insist on it.

Think it’s upping the speed limit to car speed, so that would be 70 on dual carriageways not that my T3 will do 70 very easily.

I’ve not got a toilet or fixed cooker, but it is registered as a camper, was a mini-bus when I bought it.

Something like a Caravelle should come registered as a Diesel Car / body type MPV.

Think the DfT website had a list of the campervan requirements. Registering as a campervan sometimes makes it a bit easier to insure (compared to a modified commercial for private use).

If it does not comply as a camper, but has seats in the back, unladen mass below 2040kg and some windows in sides and rear, then it can be registered as a dual purpose vehicle (which also sorts the speed limit issue).

If it’s not registered as a camper you’ll probably not be insured to sleep inside it (this was what I found out when I looked into it).

What risk are you worried about insuring the van against when you are alseep inside it?

– Theft? Much less likely when you are inside it.
– Fire? Good chance you will not be around to make a claim – if you are then you weren’t asleep.

What risk are you worried about insuring the van against when you are alseep inside it?

– Theft? Much less likely when you are inside it.
– Fire? Good chance you will not be around to make a claim – if you are then you weren’t asleep.

Depends what the van is, what it’s worth and where it’s parked.

It wasn’t something that really worried me as I’ve always been looking at older vans but wouldn’t be happy if someone crashed into it and drove off while I was asleep and I wasn’t insured. Vandalism could easily happen too without disturbing the occupant.

Also indicates that insurers aren’t happy with normal vans being used to sleep in. Not sure I’d want something in the back that couldn’t be explained away as storage or a bench/seat if anything was ever to happen.

Just to make the OP aware it was a potential issue really.

You can get self build motor home policies for example one from Highway through LV that don’t require the V5 to classify as a campervan/motorhome.

I found these were cheaper than trying to insure something with more than 5 seats.

Captains seat in the front is very easy to do, literally remove bolts and swap. You might have some spare bolts, in other cases single and double seats both use four bolts and nothing changes.

What facilities do you want in the van?
Cooking
Shower
Toilet
Seating (for 5)
Table
Garage (how much room/how many bikes)

I can think of a pretty good working layout for 5 leaving a small garage area that would allow you to have all the above pretty much. Have a look at lots of vans before you decide, it’s taken me owning 3 to understand the layout I want/need for what I do.

I have a 2000 vw t4 high top (reimo) with a variotech crash tested bed on rails.

There are a lot of bed seats around with belts but not many have been pull tested or are certified. having said that the rib/reimo seats have to be fitted correctly to do their job, some stories of badly fitted rib seats that effectovely make them expensive death traps. A crash tested bed/ seat will cost around £2k fitted so brace yourself.

Other options with the size you need would be a mwb sprinter/movano/lt. Action van http://www.actionvan.biz do nice conversions with two double beds and can fit the unwin seat rail system as well with built in belts and m1 certification. All his vans are custom built so you can choose what goes where.

I’ve watched a lot of expensive tests rip expensive seats from expensive bodyshells. Tracking systems will also fail if not installed correctly (i.e. large lengths of the tracking without securing bolts and / or floor reinforcement). 20 x a heavy rock-roll seat is a lot of load (and then you add the passenger loads).

It is fairly easy to buy a stand alone seat that passes the M1 test (but that test pass might have been achieved bolted to a cast iron bedplate not a flexible vehicle floor). If installed to a pre registered vehicle, then the installation does not legally have to be tested – just installed with the intention of meeting the test requirements. So do lots of research and ask lots of probing questions about the installation.

When shopping for my own vehicle I’ve had installers tell me blatant lies (e.g. that an M2 seat is the same as M1 – when the test load is actually much less!).

It is possible to have a safe campervan – just do the homework – it costs nothing.

awning? put kids in that bit so it is like camping?

tailgate:

Now we are four, we’ve added a large pop-up tent to our kit.

We did have a drive away awning but it was a bit of a git to put up and strike again, and wasnt that big for the ammount of space it took up.

The pop-up tent is easy to put up and strike – takes about 5-10 minutes. We use it as a base at the campsite to put the table and chairs out and keep bedding in while it isnt needed in the van itself. Its also a larger space for the kids to play in if it’s raining.

When Jr was unwell and not sleeping well for a few nights, we split up and Mrs S and Jr were in the van while other Jr and I slept in the tent.

We still have a light awning which we very occasionally use.

And this is the rock and roll bed in the seat position.
You can just make out the embedded tracks in the floor.

Stoner – who did you RnR bed on tracks? Would really like something like that for our Bongo. Got a full AVA conversion, but the bed isn’t brilliant but having it on tracks is a must so that we can use it as a “normal” van too.

Got a Khyam drive-away awaning with 2 sleeping areas if anyone’s interested…..

these guys did the original conversion for Clink of this’ere parish, I got the van from Clink
http://www.acareleisureltd.co.uk/www.acareleisureltd.co.uk/info.php?p=4

the bed on rails in the pic above is a reimo variotech, same as i have, it slides, although they are heavy so can be a bit fiddly to move, they also come out quite easily so you can use the van for lots of bikes.

Not sure if reimo still make the same one as they now have a variotech 333 which is much bigger and has buuilt in belts. Again not cheap though. Rib are a similar thing and do a sliding one but it does not slide as far.

If you look for a converted van look for ones called “reimo” conversions as they usually have variotechs. Another option is to look at Westfalias, they usually have belts and sliding buts but are left hand drive and can fetch a premium…http://www.campervans4u.com/stocklist.html

@stoner, i like the idea of the pop up tent, what one is that, we have used a beach shelter before for the same purpose bu that looks great..

Pop up tent looks like a Quechua Base Seconds XL from Decathlon. We’ve go the smaller version to go alongside our Bongo. Dead easy to put up, bit harder to put down!
Bongo comes with folding seats that make a bed and our has an electric pop top with another bed. Great van but much narrower than a T4/T5. We did two weeks touring Scotland in it last year (2adults + 2 kids) and it was hard work! Needed to empty all our luggage out into the awning to put beds up, now looking for a bigger van to convert so this thread is interesting. My biggest problem is that anything we get needs to double as my daily driver.

Speak to Rob at Kira vans I was speaking with him before xmas about a Rib seat but with plain material and no headrests it makes them slightly cheaper. Also the rib may by crach tested but only if you use the anchoring frame supplied by scopema, most people don’t use it and bolt it through the floor with spreader plates which in my opinion is more than adequate.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sturmey/sets/72157625587973397/

Some great advice and have been looking at vans this morning.
A MWB movano is in the running and is good value.
Someone mentioned putting in a pop top roof instead and then normal seats.
Seems a reasonable idea?
Any thoughts

steelisreal – what simon said,
it’s a quechua Base XL

Goes up in about 3 minutes, takes a bit more time and a knack to strike. But after a bit of practice Mrs S and I can do it easy enough now. Even with the T4, you need just a bit more space for comfort, although we can stop at an Aire and can be comfortable and not pirouetting around the van trying to do things. Trick is to pack light and not clog your living space with stuff that you are going to use at a site.

The pop-up obviously comes into it’s own if your are site camping and want to go explore somewhere. We can drop the popup roof, and stow all cooking stuff/spin the captains seat/disconnect a hookup etc in about 5 minutes and be on the road for a day trip if we want to go somewhere further afield than the bikes would allow.

It will be easier still when Jr Jr is a bit older – at <12 months at the last trip, we still needed a pushchair and a back carrier which both lived in the van. In a year or so, no push chair or back carrier, just an extra bike on the back.

dci – what facilities do you want in the van? MWB movano’s are really quite small when you get some stuff in to them. LWB one of those at least and it won’t give you much room if you want a decent sized garage.

Search ebay for race and look in motorhomes, will give you lots of ideas of things people do and what does and doesn’t work for you.

Seen loads of Transit mess vans on Ebay. Would these make a good base for a camper? I was thinking replace the 3 seats in the back with a rock and roll type seat and lower the bulkhead and have two kids beds above the garage and space below in the back for bikes.

“Also the rib may by crash tested but only if you use the anchoring frame supplied by scopema, most people don’t use it and bolt it through the floor with spreader plates which in my opinion is more than adequate.”

Uhh? – not quite with you there. I guess you’ve never performed an SBA test. Most converters haven’t performed one either (which concerns me when they give this kind of “informed” advice).

Manufacturers don’t make additional reinforcement brackets for fun or to make more money. They make them because the seat can’t pass the test without. Legally you have to install the seat with the intention of it being able to pass the test. I’m not sure where this leaves converters / owners that ignore the manufacturers advice with no supporting evidence.

Correct never done an SBA test. The anchoring frame is not ever advertised for sale or discussed as a requirement when purchasing. The advise given to people is “make sure you use big bolts and some thick plates underneath” This I agree is wrong. When I used the term “spreader plates” I was refering to the method I used to secure the seat, fabricated plates that tie into the vehicles chassis/load bearing points (without drilling). Also Bebbseats have just had a seat/bed pull tested they use VW original seat fixings. Cannons forge also I think got a pull test done. Remember these seats usually have the seatbelt anchorages attached to them making the fixing of seat take the load in the event of a crash not like some car seats where your load is taken by the seat belt anchorages which are secured to the vehicle itself