So, our growing family (we have a 2 year old and a newborn) is in need (want really, but you know…) of some form of adventure-enabling, luggage and people carrying machine. I have it in my mind that something like a long wheelbase camper van with a pop-top and awning will let us all explore all day, stopping for walks / lunch / little people naps / overnight stays whenever the need arises. I also like the idea of camping – most likely at campsites but perhaps more wild camping when the nippers grow a little. The lack of setup with a van really appeals – ability to be cooking or sleeping without putting tents up etc – and the stealth aspect for quiet car parks and laybays also appeals.

To those with such machines – how frequently do you use them for days out / overnighters? Any drawbacks to counter my romantic ideal of family fun? Is a LWB Transporter (or similar) going to be big enough? DIY or already converted?

I have a lot of previous for buying expensive toys with the idea of regular use, only to find them gathering dust. I’m keen to avoid this mistake again!

Every day. Days out, weekends away, daily drive, bringing the new fridge home, etc etc.

Couldn’t imagine not having one really.

Depends on where you live we have family holidays in them most years and numerous weekends away as well as the odd night where me make our evening meal 10 mins away and watch the sun go down.

Van only used for these trips hence only 18,000 miles in 3 years.

Wanted to go down the DIY conversion route but the Mrs got nervous and we opted for a professional conversion.

WE did have 10 years of this so we are used to the gyspy like at the weekends!

New van

[url=https://flic.kr/p/XEBZF8]Untitled[/url] by Richard Munro, on Flickr

We bought a van last year which we converted into a campervan.  We had our first night away on the 1st May 2017.  We are up to 61 nights away so far which bearing in mind I work two out of three weekends isn’t bad.  If work didn’t get in the way we would have used it even more.  Link to my thread below if you are interested.

https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/yet-another-van-conversion-thread/

We have a LWB T6. Bought it as a panel van and did  a bespoke conversion using an Amdro kit but building a garage in the back for our mountain bikes. For weekends away it’s amazing and we are currently on a week long trip in France. We are planning our usual fortnight in the Alps in it later in the year.

We designed it so we can keep the bikes inside (hence the LWB). There is no loo, so we haven’t wild camped yet. Also, we don’t have kids so you would definitely benefit from a pop top (you’d probably get away with a front seat hammock if you just had one). I’m not sure how stealth you could be with kids. We also use insulating blankets on the windscreen when in the UK to try and keep the condensation down, so these would be a dead giveaway. There are so many excellent campsites though, so we just use those.

It is clean, it’s comfortable and it’s a great way to be spotaneous when the weather is good. It’s also easy and relaxing to drive around, both in the UK and on the continent.

No, it wasn’t cheap, but we have a van to our own spec and we are really, really enjoying using it.

We live in the middle of a city so it lives on our street, along with the other half a dozen VW vans on our middle class, inner city road 😂.

Having done the small and mid sized van thing -and now having bought a full size.

2 things come to mind if your using it for bikes and sleeping in it.

1 bikes must go inside otherwise your just advertising them to thieves passing if your wild camping. Countless posts on the wildcamping pages o bikes being stolen off racks as folks sleep.

2 you must be able to stand in it or all tasks just become arduous and cramped.

We keep ours ready to go and I just fill the water , the fridge and off we go.

We use it for weekends away overnights and even just going to trail heads as nothing beats getting back from a ride cold and wet and chucking on the heater and getting changed/cleaned up in a space you can stand in while the kettle boils up

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And the best thing —-not  having to use the portaloos at events. I’d rather empty my own turds into the toilet than use a portadunny at the end of a race weekend.

As your family grows up you will grow out of a t6 sized van very quickly and will add an awning and be very quickly back at camping and all that entails.

And as for lack of set up -the thing that pissed me off the most with midsize was that everything was dual purpose so you had to move everything to get in the fridge or to lay out the bed you pretty much had to get everything and everyone out the van . I actually reckoned I’d have been as well just taking the tent.

2 things come to mind if your using it for bikes and sleeping in it.

1 bikes must go inside

2 you must be able to stand in it or all tasks just become arduous and cramped.

hehe. 25 years of camper ownership (lots of different ones) and never bothered with either of those.

Thats what I like about campers, they come in all shapes and sizes and there is something for everyone. You just need to find out what it is.

And I just came back to say. Hire one before you commit .

I’m glad I did .found out neither mid size nor coach built were for me . Saved me a few thousand in mistaken purchases. The mid size because everything was a pain in arse and the coach built because they were simply too wide to be comfortable on the roads I use them on most.

We bought a T5 and had it converted (SCA roof, RIB bed etc) 10 years ago – when the kids were young we managed to get away a lot but as they grew older we used it less (hence it’s up for sale now) Summer going to the Alps were great and it was small enough for me to use as my everyday car when needed ( I had access to pool cars in work for most of the time)

No regrets buying it, we’ve had a lot of use but now the kids are older and less interested it’s time to get something else – we’ve more than had our money’s worth (being a T5 its still worth good money) and have had some great times

I’d suggest renting a T6 size one and also a motorhome/white box to see what works. I’ve owned 2 VW Californias and also now rent a big white box – with a 5 year old having a bog is absolutely essential for us. The VW was great but it’s like Jenga esp. if you are in the UK and it’s raining, 4 people inside a vehicle the size of a station wagon is never going to be a tardis. We’ve been renting a Swift 695 the last few times which has a made up double in the roof and bunks in the back. Shower, toilet, hot water etc has meant much more flexibility, for us.

Saying all that we’re looking at buying a HymerCar Free 600 just now for the basic reason i can get 3 poss 4 bikes in bags under the bed and also have a pop top with heating plus a bit more space. I’m not leaving my bikes on my rack again after attempts to cut them off.

And I just came back to say. Hire one before you commit .

I’m glad I did .found out neither mid size nor coach built were for me . Saved me a few thousand in mistaken purchases.

^This. Everything else is just opinion.

Personally I’d go large or coachbuilt, probably the former unless I found a really well designed one as my experience of caravans shows a lot of style and no substance (like a 7.2m 4 berth with 234kg allowance from dry).

But Amdro?? Really?? I saw that stuff, a lot of money for some wood and off the shelf bits. Tailgate awning is about the only bit worth having and even then it’s a lot of money for what it is.

we’re looking at buying a HymerCar Free 600 just now for the basic reason i can get 3 poss 4 bikes in bags under the bed

https://www.hymercar.com/en/models/hymercar-camper-vans/models-on-a-fiat-chassis/hymercar-free/hymercar-free-image-gallery.html

Are you planning on taking a gas axe to them first?

That is actually a classic example of what I meant above. A toilet that makes a Ryanair bog look big, no storage space (seriously, how thin is that wardrobe?), no prep surface unless everyone else doesn’t use the table and daft things that should be standard or at least optional (like fixed LPG tank). Trying to cram far too much into far too small a space ends up with everything as a compromise. I’d hate to try and work round my wife in that space never mind a 5 year old that wants to colour in or whatever whilst you are trying to prep stuff and get food organised.

Well I did it last week quite easily actually – a L Tallboy, 2 road bikes and a Bien 20. Ours were in some canvas bags we already had from the other van, wheels off, droppers dropped, the Beinn was minus one pedal. The space was full which is what I expected given the dimensions under the bed. The other van storage works fine. Yes the wardrobe is narrow but it would be top to bottom drawers and shelves which would take all our gear, wet jackets etc can hang in the bog which is exactly what we did in the motorhome and anyway, who uses a wardrode ? Theres a nifty clip onn work surface in the kitchen, we had massive thunderstorms – daughter was building lego, i was sitting reading a book and Mrs NZCol was cooking dinner, wasn;t materially worse than the Swift really.

While I admire your enthusiam around what decisions I make the thing with vans is what works or not for you may work for me and you have absolutely no idea about what I use it for, where I store it, where I would typically take it or how much compromise I would make. I’ve looked at coachbuilts like the mclaren sporhome, i’ve had VWs, i’v rented several types of coachbuilt and I’ve spent a few weeks in a Hymercar Yosemite. So we know it works for us, YMMV which I respect but I sincerely doubt your requirements are the same as mine. Primary for me is < 6m vans go where I need them to go in Scotland, i can get it up my drive and I can park it inside my garage.

So for the OP, consider all the options and do some renting – for a few K it’s well worth it. With small kids you have to consider bedtime – small vans mean you are pretty much committed to either going to bed the same time or being outside which unless you live on the continent may not be all that feasible!

But Amdro?? Really?? I saw that stuff, a lot of money for some wood and off the shelf bits. Tailgate awning is about the only bit worth having and even then it’s a lot of money for what it is.

Round my way it seemed to cost a lot more for a similar bespoke conversion. The Amdro is solid and comfortable, with a good finish and we won’t mind getting it muddy when used biking or whatever. I wouldn’t have been able to make it myself so I’m not sure how there’d be a cheaper alternative!

Amdro Angel (their T5 conversion) is a different prospect to the boot jumps they do (which can use the tailgate awning).

Have seen some pics of a LWB Angel and it looks good if you must go T5 size and want a decent boot for bikes and kit. On a LWB you can get a decent bunk over the load area so you can separate kids if needed.

Yes that would totally work. We went the other way and put a drawer in the garage with space for bikes on top (front wheel off). It’s a really comfy set up! Am currently lounging in the back with a vin rouge…

Me, wife, 7 yr old boy and spaniel, 42 nights last year, hoping for similar this year. T4 multivan with kitchen pod and pop top. The real beauty is that we are on holiday from the moment we leave home and that even the next valley is an adventure 🙂

And take the minimum gear you can get away with..

It’s a case of different strokes for different folks isn’t it? We are ultra-ghetto with our van which has done a mere handful of overnights with a bed in the back but many day trips (with/without rear seats and up to 5 pax) and gets most regularly used as a basic box van for carrying all sorts of stuff around – most recently my deceased sister’s property, which wasn’t in the original plan but has proved to be very convenient. Incidentally my sister had a much more complete conversion which was great for a single traveller but couldn’t carry a fraction of the load.

I’d have a pop top in a heartbeat if it would fit in the garage but cope without.

“And take the minimum gear you can get away with..”

Why ? The point of my van is to base for all the fun out door shit I want to do while I’m away.

Be it bikes /swimming/kayaking /running/walking.

Now I may not take them all at once but I’ll have a reasonable combination. Of any of above on any given trip.

Which is why I have a full size 7.2m van which doesn’t struggle to go anywhere in Scotland so far including western isles and all the back roads (which is where the wide coach built a lose out big time ime….. Length won’t get you stuck but width will. )

Watch pay loads though. Mines 2900kg empty(with 2 folks on board and a third of a tank of fuel) with the conversion in. Add full fuel and water and your looking at only about 3-400kg payload. Thankfully bikes are light just bulky. Lots of 3500kg coach built a can’t carry a bag of crisps without being over weight

While I admire your enthusiam around what decisions I make the thing with vans is what works or not for you may work for me and you have absolutely no idea about what I use it for, where I store it, where I would typically take it or how much compromise I would make. I’ve looked at coachbuilts like the mclaren sporhome, i’ve had VWs, i’v rented several types of coachbuilt and I’ve spent a few weeks in a Hymercar Yosemite. So we know it works for us, YMMV which I respect but I sincerely doubt your requirements are the same as mine. Primary for me is < 6m vans go where I need them to go in Scotland, i can get it up my drive and I can park it inside my garage.

Which yeah, comes back to what works and what doesn’t for each person. Could have worded it better, sorry if it came across as arsey. Genuinely surprised those bikes fitted though, it really doesn’t look that big!

I’m basing a lot of my Amdro prejudices for their Berlingo kit. £1800odd for a few bits of wood, some storage crates and a couple of bits and bobs you could gather together for a quarter of the cost. Considering the finish is no better than some of the DIY efforts I’ve seen unimpressed doesn’t come close.

It’s all about what compromises you want/need to make. Is it a daily drive? is the size limited for some reason?

For me my T5 camper is my daily drive, we use it alot for both quick overnighters where we pack minimally as there is little room in the van once there is a family of 4 in there, so bikes go in the external rack. But if we’re going for more than 3 nights we’ll take our drive away awning so can take as much gear as we like. Great for MTB weekends both to camp in overnight to break up the journey if going far and as a base to ride from with a fridge with milk for tea/coffee, cold beers, ice lollies etc. I’ve not done any off grid camping yet, always stayed on campsites so far, but intend to do some off grid camping, just need to get a diesel/gas heater and suss out how to hook up a solar panel or something to keep the leisure battery topped up.

So a T5 is a big compromise, you’ll need something bigger if you want to store bikes internally but then you lose the convenience of being able to park it anywhere, so into multi-storey car parks and general etc. Not sure a LWB does much for you – you get a bit more cupboard space, and interior space but I don’t think it will make the difference for carrying and storing bikes internally assuming a family of 4. If there is only  2 of you and you’ve a pop top then you can sleep in the pop top and have alot more storage space in the main part of the van.

At the end of the day its pointless to obsess too much over it, just get something you think will be big enough for your needs and crack on. It’s great fun, we’ve had a blast over the 18 months so far and got lots of plans over the next couple of years.

Length won’t get you stuck but width will

Story of my life.

+1 for what works for you.

Our van is away for conversion but you’d barely notice once it comes back. No kitchen, gas, plumbing. Some vents, windows, lining, heater, and a removable bed and 2/3 height and I think that’s it!

We we use it constantly as a van so really would miss the space and as it’s SWB (correctly so as well) there isn’t that much And comfort is much less of a concern for me. Whereas a home from home might be essential for you.

We use and have used ours a lot. But found we wild camped more when they were tiny then used campsites once they were interested in playing with other kids.

They are 12 and 14 now and can do ‘proper stuff’ we are back to wild camping again. Wouldn’t be without our camper.

If I was doing that again, I’d get a Transit size van as a dayvan, ie cooking facilities, bog. heating etc, and a towbar for a caravan for longer adventures.

I believe quite a few of the grey nomads work on that system.

Like do-it-all MTBs, do-it-all vans require some compromises.

Determined to avoid the VW scene tax, we went for a SWB Vauxhall Vivaro (Renault Trafic and Nissan Primastar are the same van) that I use as a daily driver. Bit thirsty on fuel on an urban cycle, but not much bigger than an estate to drive/park and actually a fairly nice place to be (elevated driving position, etc.). Quite relaxing to drive on a long journey.

It has some day van/simple camper conversions – swivelling front seats, insurance certified king-size rock-roll-bed, electric hookup, TV, leisure battery and inverter.

With a drive away awning it does us (me, my wife and the dog) great as a camper – three week road trip last summer and the same planned this year. When in camping mode my bike comes along (in a bike bag that slides nicely under the seat/bed). With the seat/bed in ‘seat mode’ we have a six seater bus or a van that will take three people and at least three bagged bikes and kit on a day’s biking trip.

We bought it with the conversion already done. Next time I’d buy a similar base van and spec or build the conversion myself – 3/4 width bed instead of a full width one to allow for more storage and possibly built in water/cooking facilities.

So, we have a vehicle that will work as a car / bus / van / camper, but does none of those things quite as well as a dedicated specialist vehicle. For me the upsides outweigh the negatives though.

Just about to reconfigure the cupboard storage for this summer and fit a folding table.

@epicyclo presumably you got your licence before 1997? Even the lightest Transit is 2 tonnes dry, that doesn’t leave much payload margin for us plebs if pulling a caravan as well.

I’m basing a lot of my Amdro prejudices for their Berlingo kit. £1800odd for a few bits of wood, some storage crates and a couple of bits and bobs you could gather together for a quarter of the cost. Considering the finish is no better than some of the DIY efforts I’ve seen unimpressed doesn’t come close.

Well they do other stuff too, like the Angel!

350 quid and 1 day will remove all those constraints sk worth factoring into the cost of the next caravan and then you won’t have the same weight related compromises to stay legal …. Just be the car limiting you 🙂

Be easier than having zero payload

Point to niote the lower transits have pisspoor gtw and gvm it’s not a given a transit can be 3.5t gvm

Trail_rat the minimum kit applies to 3 of us and a dog in a small van, as we only have to move said kit around at bedtime. Suppose it depends on the size of your wagon. In the future we might get a bigger van but right now the T4 works just fine.

We bought our t4 from the STW classifieds 11yrs ago.

It had done 50k. It’s now done 135k and we’ve slept in it over 250 nights. It’s depreciated by about £1k pa and was a second vehicle for a couple of years.

Easy to service (although ive had to buy a special socket bit to remove the lower suspension ball joint last week), the body is showing some signs of rust now but I see no reason it won’t make it to 180k+ before it’s worn out

Has been a great thing to have.

the stealth aspect for quiet car parks and laybays also appeals – Consider whether you will actually do this, might be easier in the wilds of Scotland, but it can be surprisingly difficult to find a pleasant spot to park up for the night even with just a pair of adults.  Add a couple of kids to the mix and trying to be stealth is very difficult.  Generally you need to turn up pretty late, blinds drawn and minimal lights.  I’ve been moved on once as the spot looked OK, my downfall was we turned up too early and it was obvious we were settling in for the night (rooflights open and eating dinner inside).  Most stealth camping for us has been a late stop over during a long trip, kipping in the van at the venue after enjoying drinks at a Christmas/Birthday party, or a supermarket car park before doing an big ride (i.e. camping in Winchester for a 4am start at the South Downs Way)

Your decision will be a mix of compromises, for me;

Standing room = high top

Bikes inside and lots of storage = minimum 6m length/high top and garage

No faffing with converting seats to beds, loose storage boxes = fixed bed and permanent layout

3500kg towing capacity = rear wheel drive, a high floor and very limited base vehicle options

Fairly stealthy = no non-standard windows, portholes, swoopy stickers/bike logos or chimneys and the like!  Looks like a crew-van to the average person.

Self-sufficient = solar, integrated water tanks (adds expense)

@Stoner

Has been a great thing to have

This makes me happy 😃

Look at AutoCampers range of Transit vans for day vans and campers

Built a Mercedes Vito campervan over the winter months.  Usual R & R bed, cupboards, water, gas , lights and batteries.  Finished about March time.

My wife wouldn’t entertain driving it so it is 100% a extra luxury vehicle.  Even so it’s done 6000 miles so far and loads of fun

various solo nights for me.  I finish work on a Friday and if I fancy a night by ullswater by myself it’s less than 30 mins to a chill out.

Various trips to Manchester, Edinburgh etc for climbing wall visits.  Stay over in car park and chill

1 mammoth trip to Austria for a climbing comp.  2500 miles in a week.  Including 1100 miles in a day.  100mph + on autobahn was fun.  75mph fully loaded with 4 people and camping gear was late 38-40mpg.  Mate drove at 85-90mph and still got 32mpg