Cameron doesn’t actually believe any of this guff. He’s just doing it to 1: keep his core right-wing back-benchers quiet and 2: try and get some votes back from UKIP.

Mind you, with the imminent posting of their latest anti-immigration banners, UKIP have been caught behind the news – apparently, living standards are now so good in Poland that none of the Polish are interested in coming here any more…

Shame – they’ve wasted £1 million on a pointless campaign about a non-issue.

he’s so Christian that his constituency office called the police when a Bishop came to visit them;

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/david-camerons-constituency-office-calls-police-on-food-bank-campaigners-bishop-of-oxford-and-reverend-keith-hebden-9274303.html

I believe in HiFi magic – you know, directional cables, high value interconnects and so on. Unfortunately there wasn’t a box to tick for that so I ticked Christian.

ninfan – Member

Q.20 What is your religion?

Yes, it really could be much clearer, couldn’t it, very ambiguous?

Exactly the opposite, it’s a leading question. Not “are you religious” or “Do you practice a religion” but “What is your religion”.

The ONS accept this- they defend the question as it’s been used for some time, and so it’s useful for measuring trends, even though it’s poor for measuring absolutes. If they change the question, they’d get a truer answer but they’d lose the trend measurement. So they accept that the question gives misleading information on religiousity. It’s not a conspiracy or anything.

Don’t think this has an impact? Asking the question “What is your religion” gets 61% of respondents to identify as religious, as per the census. But asking the question “are you religious” gets only 29% to respond yes.

Similiarly, if you ask the census question, then follow it with “Do you believe in Christ”, only 48% of all the “Christians” do. And just over half believe in God. That’s a bit tricky really.

Relax, Easter is over. The unnecessary chocolate has been eaten and the altar of consumerism can be worshipped yet again.

Chocolate is never unnecessary.

Thinking religion is risible doesn’t mean having to find an alternative altar to worship at, silly. Altars are all part of the risibility.

Relax, Easter is over. The unnecessary chocolate has been eaten and the altar of consumerism can be worshipped yet again.

You seem to think that the opposite of religion is rampant consumerism. This is not the case.

Sorry I should have added Simon Cowell and reality TV.

Yumyum. The head first…

Sorry I should have added Simon Cowell and reality TV.

Not really.

Similiarly, if you ask the census question, then follow it with “Do you believe in Christ”, only 48% of all the “Christians” do. And just over half believe in God. That’s a bit tricky really.

Amusing

Do you have a link ?
I want to send it to someone

TA

What did Jesus say before he died on the cross?

No-one touch my £$%&ing Easter Eggs, I’ll be back on Monday.

“Immaculate Confection”

[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wfamPW3Eaw[/video]

Edit: too slow 🙁

@JY- stuff here.
https://humanism.org.uk/campaigns/religion-and-belief-some-surveys-and-statistics/

Much Obliged sir

Does it really matter? Seriously other than people who should know better getting upset because David Cameron said something which might be nothing more than strictly factually accurate does it change anything?

Would “Britain is a multi faith country which accepts your right to believe our disbelieve (an act of faith in its self since disbelief has zero basis in fact , otherwise it would be disprove) what you like, but asks that by and large you observe the Christian traditions of this country and follow the moral code into which you in the UK are educated (which is coincidentally based on the Christian and therfore Jewish belief structure, since predominantly all education in this country stemmed from the church at some point, but is in no way exclusive of your non christian belief), and asks that you largely accept public holidays based on christian festivals and that you consider working Sundays to be something requiring extra pay and or reduced hours since its the Christian holy day, but in no way requires that you go to church, and we accept Jesus wouldn’t recognise the church today anyhow since it didn’t exist until several centuries after he died and he was Jewish after all.” be any better?

Does it really matter?

Yes

Yes. Because if this is a christian country, then it becomes arguable that laws, education, social and cultural policy should reflect that. Since we’re not, then it’s not. And when it’s the Prime Minister asserting that we’re a christian country, that’s cause for concern. Maybe it’s just empty noisemaking, maybe not, but there are plenty of people who do think along these lines and we could do without encouraging them.

I’m not religious at all but I can still see why it’s not too nice as a muslim or a sikh or a pastafarian to be told that “this is a christian country not a noodly country”. Truth is we are not a religious country full stop, so let’s acknowledge the level playing field, whether christian or any other religion, you’re a respected minority among minorities. Nothing good can come of misrepresenting that, and plenty of bad.

Though as pointed out above, laws etc. do reflect that.

It seems to me we have two options
1. The state becomes totally secular and we abandon all Christian festivals and holidays
2. We become multi cultural/religious and embrace all festivals and holidays.

In the interests of maximising time on the bike, I would propose we throw our combined weight behind option 2.

Northwind » if this is a christian country, then it becomes arguable that laws, education, social and cultural policy should reflect that

Though as pointed out above, laws etc. do reflect that.[/quote]

Just off the top of my head:
Sunday trading
Equal marriage
Divorce
Abortion legality/limits

The fact some laws aren’t doesn’t mean that laws in general don’t reflect.

most of the “laws” reflect social norms that predate Christianity in this country . Of the Specific old testament ten commandment’s only don’t kill and don’t nick and don’t do perjury feature in our law .Of the few thousand laws scattered through the bible most are about clothing choice, diet, owning slaves and some pretty appalling treatment for rape victims . None of which thankfully feature in “our” laws. Our laws do not reflect Christianity but some pan cultural norms essential to living in stable settled communities.

Truth is we are not a religious country full stop, so let’s acknowledge the level playing field, whether christian or any other religion, you’re a respected minority among minorities. Nothing good can come of misrepresenting that, and plenty of bad.

I agree with not misrepresenting. So let’s start with the truth – we are a religious country with an established church. We also are very tolerant and respectful of other religions indeed we have laws that protect that. All in all, a pretty good place to live. Plenty of bad from trying to pretend otherwise.

we are a religious country

Speak for yourself.

Edit: Oh. Perhaps you were?

We have an established church yes, but that’s merely a historic fact. It doesn’t make the country as a whole Christian. Given that Sunday services apparently attract about 1M attendees and a very small percentage of the population actually attend church or believe in God or Jesus as the son of God, I find it difficult to agree that this is a “religious country”.

No Woppit….it’s fact. Good, bad, indifferent according to your view, but fact nonetheless. It’s even on google.

It’s when people make stupid sweeping statements like ‘we are a religious country’ that it becomes annoying. Hardly anyone I know is religious, and very few adults as a percentage of the population actively take part in anything religious.

The idea that the religious have a monopoly on altruism, morality and anti-consumerism is a false and harmful one.

No Woppit….it’s fact. Good, bad, indifferent according to your view, but fact nonetheless. It’s even on google.

Depends how you define ‘religious’ – we’ve already established why the census isn’t a worthwhile source of evidence. If we’re so religious why don’t more people go to church?

‘we are a religious country’ that it becomes annoying. Hardly anyone I know is religious, and very few adults as a percentage of the population actively take part in anything religious.

Yet 75% of the population identify themselves as having a religion, go figure!

If we’re so religious why don’t more people go to church?

Isn’t faith based on belief, rather than going to a particular building regularly, after all, God, if he exists, is everywhere 😉

we’ve already established why the census isn’t a worthwhile source of evidence.

In a poll conducted by YouGov in March 2011 on behalf of the BHA, when asked the census question ‘What is your religion?’, 61% of people in England and Wales ticked a religious box (53.48% Christian and 7.22% other) while 39% ticked ‘No religion’.

When the same sample was asked the follow-up question ‘Are you religious?’, only 29% of the same people said ‘Yes’ while 65% said ‘No’, meaning over half of those whom the census would count as having a religion said they were not religious.

Less than half (48%) of those who ticked ‘Christian’ said they believed that Jesus Christ was a real person who died and came back to life and was the son of God.

Asked when they had last attended a place of worship for religious reasons, most people in England and Wales (63%) had not attended in the past year, 43% of people last attended over a year ago and 20% of people had never attended. Only 9% of people had attended a place of worship within the last week.

Isn’t faith based on belief, rather than going to a particular building regularly, after all, God, if he exists, is everywhere

Yes, and most people don’t believe in god. Ergo, most people are not religious.

most people don’t believe in god

You could ask ‘do you believe in god?’ and only get a 30% yes answer –

at the same time I reckon that if you asked ‘Does god exist?

Yes,
No,
Maybe

I’d be willing to bet my house that you didn’t get anywhere near the 70% remainder coming up with a definitive No!

I would love to know how the brain functions in the 65% who say they are not religious having previously stated they are Christian.

I would love to know how the brain functions in the 65% who say they are not religious having previously stated they are Christian.

You’re making it sound more complicated than it is. Some people claim they are Christian, when asked “are you religious” which they take as meaning do you go to church regularly, do you pray every day, etc, they answer “no”. A fairly simple concept to understand imo, even if you don’t necessarily agree with it.

In typical fashion, I have just read the posts above on this page, rather than any of the preceding pages, which clearly gives me every reason to suggest that a belief in whatever one defines as god, need not have anything to do with a or any doctrine.

I would love to know how the brain functions in the 65% who say they are not religious having previously stated they are Christian.

You could read the rest of the thread, where it’s been explained several times over?

a belief in whatever one defines as god, need not have anything to do with a or any doctrine.

Offhand, I don’t think anyone’s suggested otherwise. Though I’m not immediately seeing where you’re going with that? Do you mean that the answer to “what is your religion?” could be “none / other” if one believes in a higher power but doesn’t subscribe to an organised religion? Makes sense but I’d speculate that that situation would be about as statistically relevant as “Jedi.”

But there again, maybe it is pretty common. If pressed, how many people would say “well, I don’t know for sure, but I feel there might be ‘something’ up there”…? Hm.

Oh has this turned into a religion thread? I’d better read back.

Save yourself the trouble Molgrips….