Cameron kicks EU in the nuts – right decision?

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  • Cameron kicks EU in the nuts – right decision?
  • yossarian
    Member

    So David Cameron has withdrawn British support for the EU proposals to stabilise the Euro and Europe citing (I think I’m right) excessive regulation.

    Is he right to do so? What are the implications for us and for the rest of Europe?

    Your thoughts please…

    Premier Icon stumpyjon
    Subscriber

    Once again we’ll be on the outside ranting whilst everyone else gets on with it. The others don’t really take us that seriously anyway. Euro cock up not withstanding we have no choice but to be part Europe, might as well get on with it.

    Cameron’s chosen the usual middle ground trying to keep the Euro sceptics happy whilst being part of the EU, now nobodies happy.

    just sell us all on Ebay and be done with it

    IanW
    Member

    Yes, Euro mk1’s history.

    Premier Icon onewheelgood
    Subscriber

    As I understand it, the issue Cameron decided to make a stand on was the right of the financial institutions in the City to go on raping and pillaging without let or hindrance. Doesn’t sound like much to be proud of to me.

    What exactly are Britain’s “interests in Europe”?

    Is it to do with the banks and the stock exchange which is the only really significant export we have or something else?

    Premier Icon teamhurtmore
    Subscriber

    Be careful what you wish for! Look into the details and lack of them that were being debated here. The euro politicians are at best muddling through and at worst continuing to misunderstand what is going on around them. Don’t be fooled by Sarkozy’s comments especially re the financial transaction tax. You do not need to “have friends in the city” to realise that this was a simple mechanism designed to ensure that the UK was forced to contribute 35-45% of tax revenues here to fund the Euro disaster. If they phrased it honestly for what it is, would you still say the same thing about DC rejecting the idea?

    Is this the fourth last summit that has failed to address the real issues?

    Premier Icon aracer
    Subscriber

    All the other Euro leaders are busy protecting their own interests (when it’s actually their problem, not ours), so why shouldn’t we? Merkel is trying to avoid paying for the mess and just looking for somebody else to instead, whilst refusing to face up to the reality of the situation and what really needs to be done. They don’t like talking about the elephant in the room.

    Premier Icon kimbers
    Subscriber

    Yup Cameron protecting the city , they fought hard for deregulation and they aren’t going to let merkozy ruin that party
    rather than trying to help sort out the euro coz that might actually help rebuild our exports and help the manufacturing sector

    castirondave is a puppet of the money men

    CaptJon
    Member

    does anyone believe he went to the summit intending to sign something?

    Premier Icon Frodo
    Subscriber

    Right now its impossible to tell if it was a good deal for Britain or not as we simply do not know the details.

    At the end of the day the city contributes about 10% to the uk economy if not more so its important that that it is protected. Yes we need to rebalance our economy but that will not happen overnight.

    allthepies
    Member

    Frodo + 1

    What else could DC have done ?

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Once again Dave demonstrates that every other consideration is secondary to the monumental greed of his mates in the City.

    Its Business as usual in the city. Bring on the next Crash! He’s already setting us on a path for it. Yay!

    Mugboo
    Member

    Dump that human rights nonsense next.

    Premier Icon teamhurtmore
    Subscriber

    So binners, let me ask you a simple question. Are you happy with the current state of the euro arrangement that you would like the GB to contribute 35-40% of new tax revenues to support it?

    The over-riding objective at the moment is to prevent a disorderly collapse of the Euro. That is in no ones interest. The second leg of this is to create a new and sustainable comic system in Europe. People are correct to point out the dangers of two speed Europe going forward but let’s not mistake which one will be which!

    iDave
    Member

    I’d be chuffed that 65% of a new tobin tax went into UK coffers.

    65% of something is better than the current 100% of nothing

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    I think the Euro is a complete mess fella. They’re demonstrating a total refusal to take the decisions everyone knows are utterly essential.

    BUT… The inevitable collapse is going to be cataclysmic for all of us. And with his actions last night, Dave has essentially excluded us from any part in the decision-making process of a club we’re constitutionally integrated with, for better or worse. We’re still bound by the laws and regulations of an institution who, from this point on, won’t give a flying **** about our opinion

    Who’s interests are being served here? The city. To the total exclusion of everyone else! The city may represent 10% of our GDP, but Euro-zone represents 40% of our trade. I work for a British manufacturing company who’s exports to Europe count for a large chunk of business. Do you think we’re even registering on Dave’s radar in all this posturing? Not a chance! We, like many others, will be sacrificed for the benefit of the city

    His decision will ultimately impact on the competitiveness of British Business, leading to even more job losses as our potential to export to our biggest market takes a hit. We’ll be re-balancing our economy alright! In totally the wrong direction. Say one thing – do the opposite

    March of the makers? My arse!

    Premier Icon Rio
    Subscriber

    new and sustainable comic system in Europe

    Sometimes autocorrect is almost prescient… Or maybe that’s what you meant to say! 🙂

    Premier Icon Frodo
    Subscriber

    I’m uneasy about being outside of this treaty but weve been outside the Euro and that has served us well. Until all the deatils fall out its impossible to tell if the veto was warranted or not.

    IHN
    Member

    Germany’s pi$$ed off, rightly, because it doesn’t see why it should be bailing out other Eurozone countries because it managed it’s economy well and they didn’t. All the Eurozone countries now realise that there has to be a monumental central pot of cash to bail them out instead, which is where the Tobin tax comes in.

    However a Tobin tax wouldn’t work here unless it was implemented worldwide, otherwise the big banks would simply up-sticks and head off for Singapore and/or New York. And, as 1 in 8 tax pounds collected by HMRC comes from the city, that would be pretty bad for the UK. Also, even of it did work, the majority of the tax would be raised in the UK, and then used to bail out the Eurozone. That doesn’t seem right.

    For once I kind of sympathise with CallmeDave. He was on to an absolute loser from the start.

    mcboo
    Member

    How does all this solve the underlying problem? How does Italy compete from within the Euro? That is the question that needs to be answered here otherwise they are going to default.

    As per usual this has turned into a power grab by France and Germany when they should be addressing the fundamental flaws at the heart of the Euro.

    Labour party reaction? Silence. They arent stupid, they know where UK public opinion is on this.

    mcboo
    Member

    which is where the Tobin tax comes in.

    Why do you want to pay more tax? It will be everyone’s pensions that will pick up the bill, do you want to work longer and for less? Wasnt that what the public sector just went on strike against? Make your mind up please.

    Premier Icon MSP
    Subscriber

    The tories would rather britain be worse off and the euro fail, giving the apearance of an idealogical victory, than a sucsesful britain and euro where everyone wins but the tories have nothing to crow about.

    The city don’t want regualating, even though we all know its necasary, they also don’t want to repay the support given through these financially constrained times. Which is unfortunatly a short term stupid view, the city will collapse if the loans to spain and italy can’t be repaid (unless the great british public, gawd bless them, rally round and save those poor impoverished bankers again).

    Junkyard
    Member

    You do not need to “have friends in the city” to realise that this was a simple mechanism designed to ensure that the UK was forced to contribute 35-45% of tax revenues here to fund the Euro disaster. If they phrased it honestly for what it is, would you still say the same thing about DC rejecting the idea?

    God forbid we should make the people who got us in to this mess actually pay for this. FFS we have public sector workers to shaft please please let the rich off the hook Dave and don’t sign

    Are you happy with the current state of the euro arrangement that you would like the GB to contribute 35-40% of new tax revenues to support it?

    Are the banks GB or are they private companies operating within a single economic market who just happened to be based here?
    Yes I am happy to make them pay their fair share after all why is it that we all have to pay the price and they dont get regulated, taxed and keep the special relationship for the City and still pay themselves huge bonuses…personally I would have them all shot in front of their families [ I would not]

    It will be everyone’s pensions that will pick up the bill, do you want to work longer and for less?

    GAWD BLESS EM – they are thinking only of us when they have to pay more tax rather than their profits ……remind me again what their primary legal objective is again?
    Ps when did we get this benign and helpful financial sector that looked after the little man ?
    I realise my view is bit of a polemic but that is fairy tale stuff

    As per usual this has turned into a power grab by France and Germany when they should be addressing the fundamental flaws at the heart of the Euro.

    Labour party reaction? Silence. They arent stupid, they know where UK public opinion is on this.

    ^^This^^

    The Conservatives are over a barrel as well, as they don’t want to have a referendum on anything to do with Europe, as they know full well what the outcome will be. Too many people in the political machine have a vested interest in keeping the Europe project going. Those nice conferences need to keep on happening, those nice big buildings need to keep being built etc.

    loum
    Member

    Teamhurtmore makes a good point about Sarkozy’s probable motives, but iDave makes a lot of sense too.
    I must admit to not reading up enough around what’s going on with this summit, anyone have a good impartial summary link please?

    julianwilson
    Member

    they don’t want to have a referendum on anything to do with Europe, as they know full well what the outcome will be.

    …the breakup of the coalition and a real mountain to climb in getting back a working parliamentary majority? 😀

    mefty
    Member

    Until the Germans accept that they are going have to fund the transfers required to make other countries competitive within the confines of the Euro, there is no future for the Euro. The problem is, if they don’t do it soon, there will be no decision to make.

    Why should they, you may ask, well if they don’t their banking sector is bust because it funded the profligacy of the worst offenders.

    Cameron had no choice, he would have had to hold a referendum that he knew was not winnable. Apparently, one French official take on the British position was that it can be likened to someone wanting to turn up to a wife swapping party without their own wife. Well I would respond that you should perhaps look into the mirror to work out why that might be the case.

    Premier Icon Frodo
    Subscriber

    God forbid we should make the people who got us in to this mess actually pay for this. FFS we have public sector workers to shaft please please let the rich off the hook Dave and don’t sign

    What do you think actually pays for public services …after all they arn’t wealth generators ….ah yes that would be taxes paid by among others the city of London.

    Best not to bite the hand that feeds you….

    Dave isn’t protecting bankers, he is protecting the tax revenues that fund the country.

    Julian, that’s it! 🙂

    Premier Icon aracer
    Subscriber

    God forbid we should make the people who got us in to this mess actually pay for this

    Yeah – the Germans are pretty reluctant to pay aren’t they?

    LHS
    Member

    The Euro is already finished, its not a matter of if but when.

    I heard a good quote not long ago on Radio 4 along the lines of

    The UK is as isolated as somebody who refused to join the Titanic just before it sailed.

    Premier Icon aracer
    Subscriber

    For those who think taxing the bankers is a good thing, well you have a point and a lot of people would sympathise with that. But don’t you think it would be a better idea to tax the bankers and the money go into helping out our economy rather than that of Italy, Greece and Germany?

    Premier Icon binners
    Subscriber

    Its all well and good saying the Germans don’t want to bail out Europe, but who has benefitted most since the formation of the Euro? To an absolutely ridiculous degree? The Germans!

    The fixed, inflexible nature of the currency amounts to the rest of the Eurozone effectively subsidising the German economy. And this situation was contrived entirely by them. And it was then the German capital generated by this boom that then financed subsequent property booms in southern Europe

    Germany is as complicit in this Euro-mess as anyone. Not that you’ll hear anyone acknowledging it

    surfer
    Member

    God forbid we should make the people who got us in to this mess actually pay for this

    Its one thing to make them pay for it (and we are as one on this subject) however I for one would prefer that payment went to bolster the UK economy not to support a failing Eurozone.

    Are the banks GB or are they private companies operating within a single economic market who just happened to be based here?

    Maybe they are and it is a relationship of convenience. There is no doubt that some would up sticks if it suited them however they still pay taxes in the market that they reside.

    5thElefant
    Member

    How can you locally tax a business which is nothing more than some computers with numbers in? You can move the overpaid halfwits who punch numbers into those computers anywhere in the world in a matter of weeks.

    Junkyard
    Member

    What do you think actually pays for public services …after all they arn’t wealth generators ….ah yes that would be taxes paid by among others the city of London.

    and say the taxes of those in the public sector and everyone else?
    i think you will find we are all feeding them and they are being somewhat ungrateful.
    Just imagine the govt ran everything as a private organisation and billed you for the services – like say the eleccy board does and nothing has changed and we all paid the same amount …suddenly it is now generates money because it is in private hands yet nothing has actually changed. Stupid argument and i think we would both do well to step back and not have a simplistic GCSE style rantette from the left wing and the right wing
    It is clearly much more complicated than either of us are saying.
    TJ will be along soon to take up an extreme and entrenched position to argue with you

    iDave
    Member

    Slight diversion, but I can’t listen to the slimey gobshite aka Cameron* any longer. Detestable self-serving vacant ****. His voice is almost as grating as Miliband’s.

    *other politicians are available.

    allthepies
    Member

    There is no doubt that some would up sticks if it suited them however they still pay taxes in the market that they reside.

    Quite, and no doubt many would up sticks and move off to NY / Asia (taking their jobs + tax contributions with them) should a Eurozone only financial tax be imposed.

    PJM1974
    Member

    What politicians tell the public they’re doing and what they actually do are usually two completely different, often contradictory things.

    60% of Britain’s exports go to other EU countries, so if Callmedave decides to go all Fatcha on Merkozy then we stand to lose far more than we’d gain. Do I care if a wunch of bankers have to stump up a teeny weeny amount of cash in taxes to help pay for the mess they’ve made? Hell no, and if I had my way they’d all submit a written apology too.

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