If you weren’t aware. Large restaurant chains have to print calories on their menus.

It will almost invariably end up with these sorts of articles which do little to nothing to help fight rising obesity. This sort of measure has been in place since 2008 in some US states, and it’s had precisely zero effect.

Tackling food poverty, ignorance, healthy diets, exercise? Nope all too difficult, let’s just pretend getting other people to print a random number on a menu is the best we can achieve.

Another slow handclap for 12 years of Tories.

Correction, 12 years of globalist Blairite government.

Agree that it’s not going to have a huge effect, but it’s going to help some people make a more informed choice, so it’s definitely a good thing IMO.

FWIW, I get the occasional McD. I do try to eat healthily generally, and obviously I know the large option/double burgers etc are worse for you but without seeing it quantified in the past I’ve just supersized it. Now (they’ve been voluntarily doing this for some time) I can easily see just how many more calories are in e.g. the double ¼lb vs the regular ¼lb, it’s easier for me to show restraint and order the latter (unless I’m really hungry 🤣)

I don’t necessarily view this as a bad thing having heard both sides argued. It’s just additional information which will help some people to decide what to eat. People are free to ignore it if they aren’t interested.

That above article is quite interesting.

 but it’s going to help some people make a more informed choice, so it’s definitely a good thing IMO.

Yeah. No. Every study that’s ever been done on this sort of thing shows that it has zero effect on people’s choices, and can in fact perversely have the opposite effect. If you’ve already made the decision to have the 750Kcal burger, why not have the more tasty 900Kcal one? It’s the same price and who cares about the extra 150Kcals…etc etc.

It’s stupid, and it’s exactly the sort of “did something, but haven’t really” policy that let’s ministers off the hook of doing their actual jobs.

Yeah. No. Every study that’s ever been done on this sort of thing shows that it has zero effect on people’s choices

except, I’ve LITERALLY JUST TOLD YOU it’s been helpful for me, and has (positively) affected my choices. 🙄 Your entire post is just armchair conjecture, with no evidence.

Utterly and completely pointless and absolutely typical of this governments ‘lets pretend that we’re doing something’ approach to everything.

I’m sure that even the densest of Spoons customers know that a dirty great big cheeseburger with chips is probably pretty heavy on the calories

Your entire post is just armchair conjecture, with no evidence.

As far as I am aware they are correct about the studies showing no benefit at a population level.
Will it help some people. Sure
Will it help enough people to make it worthwhile. That doesnt seem to be supported.
Will it harm some people. Sure. No just some people going slightly higher in calories but also those going significantly lower (there have been concerns raised by various eating disorder groups).

except, I’ve LITERALLY JUST TOLD YOU it’s been helpful for me

Good for you

This study basically says the thing that most of these studies say

“Across all these studies, there is a trend toward calorie labeling having no effect on calories purchased at fast food restaurants. In nine of 12 studies conducted in localities where calorie labeling was implemented, the policy did not lead to a significant decrease in total mean calories or unhealthy items purchased”

Sometimes the studies show a average reduction of about 50Kcals per serving but not one study has demonstrated that’s because of menu labelling, and in any case if the study goes on long enough they all show the effect wears off over time, and the average consumption goes back to where it was before .

The policy is just designed to enable ministers to say that they’ve “done something at no cost to the taxpayer” when in fact they’re probably been made aware by the studies available and by campaigners who long said; it has no effect at all.

I’m sure that even the densest of Spoons customers know that a dirty great big cheeseburger with chips is probably pretty heavy on the calories

As daft as it sounds though the densest of folk probably don’t know, don’t care or can’t afford to care.
Personally I think they’d have been significantly better off giving the data in another format, so “4mi walk” “5mi walk” that people can actually quantify and identify with.

1000kcal, pft thats fine. 10mile walk? Yeah I might go for the small instead then.

Spoons as a point in case though, the legislation would have been hugely better if it included drinks. Burger and chips they might know is full of calories, that the pint of beer they are having is half the burger, probably not.

Nutritional information and the traffic light labels have been around for a while on packaged food, I personally find that useful. It doesn’t stop me eating crisps but it puts me off some items.

It’s stupid, and it’s exactly the sort of “did something, but haven’t really” policy that let’s ministers off the hook of doing their actual jobs.

Indeed.

If only I could think of a suitable punishment to inflict…?

A clamp down on advertising from the like of Just Eat, Deliveroo etc would have a much bigger impact. Every form of media is swamped by adverts for these services and the promotions they push.

They’ll just claim they offer a delivery service and aren’t responsible for the product though.

Heard an interesting point on the radio about it; while its seen as a good thing for people trying to reduce or maintain weight, it can be a bad thing for people with other eating disorders such as anorexia, bulimia, etc as it ‘could’ add additional guilt for calories consumed.

It’s not going to solve the obesity crisis but what is? Are there any signs we’re going in the right direction? I can’t see it getting any better with the cost of living crisis.

Agree that it’s not going to have a huge effect, but it’s going to help some people make a more informed choice, so it’s definitely a good thing IMO.

Beat me to it.

“Across all these studies, there is a trend toward calorie labeling having no effect on calories purchased at fast food restaurants. In nine of 12 studies conducted in localities where calorie labeling was implemented, the policy did not lead to a significant decrease in total mean calories or unhealthy items purchased”

This may well be true, but does it analyse why? It may be that for one person on a calorie-controlled diet to lose weight there’s another deliberately wanting to bulk up as part of their weight training regime. It could well be that the vast majority of diners simply don’t care.

I’m not seeing how providing consumers with more information can be anything other than a positive thing. Sure, they make make stupid choices, but that’s their choice to make. You could say the same of strength labelling on alcohol or cigarettes, sure some people might choose the 6% beer over the 3.5% one but are we really arguing that not providing that information would be a good idea?

Humans are inherently weak, I don’t think you can rely upon ‘informed restraint’ to stop people doing inherently self destructive things. Remove the product or tax the bejesus out of it or provide a better alternative etc. etc.

My knowledge of the sickening number of calories in a jumbo empire biscuit (600kCal I think, not easy to figure out from the packaging) makes precisely sod all difference to my decision to scarf two of them in one sitting if I’m having a bad day.

Had to look up empire biscuits. Yeah they look nice.

Every study that’s ever been done on this sort of thing shows that it has zero effect on people’s choices, and can in fact perversely have the opposite effect. If you’ve already made the decision to have the 750Kcal burger, why not have the more tasty 900Kcal one? It’s the same price and who cares about the extra 150Kcals…etc etc.

I guess one thing that’s hard to measure is what people do outside of the restaurant. For example, someone might order that 900Kcal burger for lunch, see the calorie count, and then decide to go easy on whatever they have for dinner later based on the info they now have about what they’ve just eaten. Or they might have a salad the following day to balance their calorie intake. Or that same info might convince them that it’s a good idea to only buy that burger once a month instead of once a week.

In each these cases, there is an effect on choice – it’s just harder to quantify.

This is also probably exactly how I would use this info. If I want to smash a massive burger, it’s not going to stop me from doing it… but I would likely make an adjustment elsewhere.

Of course, there’s all kinds of ways to address the problem of obesity, but surely having this info in front of you can only be a positive step.

It’s not going to solve the obesity crisis but what is?

People eat too much yummy (heavily calorific) things for many reasons. They broadly fall into 3 categories.

Temptation/Availability

Association (positive or negative)

Lack of Accountability (either to others or yourself)

tackling any of those will do more to cut the numbers of people who are becoming increasingly overweight. Only one of them is really within the domain of public health. Do something towards that, and teach people about the other two.

It is hard.

Labeling food is going to amount to the square sum of **** all.

But is easy

Remove the product or tax the bejesus out of it or provide a better alternative etc. etc.

Problem here is sugar, fat and salt are about the only way to make a lot of really cheap nasty stuff edible, taxing the bejesus out of calories would largely make food inaccessible to huge % of the population who are stuck eating supervalue turkey testicle patties because enough to feed a family of four costs the same as four apples.

Then of course you’re into how do we tackle poverty and the generally accepted answer to that from governments of every colour and nationality is to change how we measure it.

there is a trend toward calorie labeling having no effect on calories purchased at fast food restaurants.

Just a wild stab in the dark, but can I suggest that people who head to a fast food place are not looking to have their choices influenced by a calorie count.

It could well be that the vast majority of diners simply don’t care.

That would be my assumption. Those who are calorie counting would be less likely to go to a fast food place.

but are we really arguing that not providing that information would be a good idea?

Quite possibly, yes.
What are the downsides of providing it.
One that has been listed is the potential impact on people with eating disorders.
Another is simply the cost of coming up with it.

What is it actually solving and could the time and cost be better invested in other ways?

but surely having this info in front of you can only be a positive step.

I don’t know how many times this needs saying really. Every study that’s been done on this says the same thing. It has a teeny effect that soon wears off, or has no effect whatsoever.

It isn’t a step; positive or negative, it has no effect.

I guess one thing that’s hard to measure is what people do outside of the restaurant. For example, someone might order that 900Kcal burger for lunch, see the calorie count, and then decide to go easy on whatever they have for dinner later based on the info they now have about what they’ve just eaten.

That’s a good point also. How many people on this forum have gone for a strenuous bike ride and then gone for the lump of cake and pint that they’d just earned?

Labeling food is going to amount to the square sum of **** all.

But is easy

But is it bad?

Nutritional information and the traffic light labels have been around for a while on packaged food, I personally find that useful. It doesn’t stop me eating crisps but it puts me off some items.

This. My local pub/resto has printed calories on the menu for a long while, and that info has been enough on more than a few occasions for me opt for a less calorific plate.
OK sometimes I do opt for the mega stack or whatever, but not much.

I’d rather have the information than not, personally, especially if you’re looking at a tasty dish and it weighs in at 1500 calories or something daft, it deffinatley makes me reconsider.

But is it bad?

It is pointless, and in this case; Yes that’s bad. It allows ministers who should have people’s health in mind to say that they’ve “done something, and if it doesn’t work, well then that’s not their fault, is it?”

Policies to reverse growing obesity will have to at some point tackle the fact that we have surrounded ourselves by food that is, not to put too fine a point on it: Killing people.  I’m guessing telling people that we can’t go on like this isn’t going to be a vote winner.

How many people on this forum have gone for a strenuous bike ride and then gone for the lump of cake and pint that they’d just earned?

I’ll make a bet with you that even on here where more than average are clued up about the relationship between their food intake and their waist size, cannot accurately gauge the amount of exercise needed to offset their food intake. (see for instance Chubb club)

How many people on this forum have gone for a strenuous bike ride and then gone for the lump of cake and pint that they’d just earned?

Is probably a better question

I don’t know how many times this needs saying really.

Because you’re right and everyone else is wrong?

Every study that’s been done on this says the same thing. It has a teeny effect that soon wears off, or has no effect whatsoever.

It isn’t a step; positive or negative, it has no effect.

It may not have a measurable effect overall – I haven’t looked at the studies – but some people may find it useful. I know my partner would, she would absolutely take it into account when choosing a meal.

What a croc of shit.

With knowledge of close others with eating disorders, I maintain that food should not be reduced to numbers or anything that negatively impacts on mental health.

So for the foreseeable I now won’t go to anywhere that is required to display calories.

Luckily the local pizza place is an indy so I am hoping they keep all the numbers off the menu.

Across all these studies, there is a trend toward calorie labeling having no effect on calories purchased at fast food restaurants.

Maybe in that specific restaurant. But I wonder if there are any deeper effects, like for example, when deciding where to go out to eat does the perception of the healthiness of a restaurant affect the decision? If a restaurant has lots of lower calorie or ‘perceived healthy’ options on the menu then it might poach a few customers from some other place. and no, I haven’t read the study 🙂

It is pointless, and in this case; Yes that’s bad. It allows ministers who should have people’s health in mind to say that they’ve “done something, and if it doesn’t work, well then that’s not their fault, is it?”

It is pointless in your opinion.

I agree wholeheartedly that it is (yet another) dead cat politically and we should be addressing obesity and general health in a more grown-up manner. This policy may well be playing lip service to that as you say, but food companies absolutely should be telling customers what they’re eating.

It is pointless in your opinion.

Not my opinion, the opinion of all the scientists of all the numerous studies that have been done on this very policy. They say it’s pointless.

If its point is to inform people, then it succeeds. Whether it will nudge people to make healthier choices is another matter. I’m sure there will be some UK studies so we’ll find out in a few years.

They say it’s pointless.

Do they? Or do they say something like it’s ineffective in reducing obesity? “Pointless” doesn’t sound like a particularly scientific term.

@nickc didn’t take me long to find a meta-analysis showing that some studies have found positive effects from publishing nutritional information https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s13679-016-0193-z and yes, some studies have not, or found null values.
“I don’t know how many times this needs saying really.” – Until your biases are confirmed?

Printing Nutrional information is one tiny part of a solution to a problem that needs to be addressed from multiple angles.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-calorie-labelling-rules-come-into-force-to-improve-nations-health

The press release

It allows ministers who should have people’s health in mind to say that they’ve “done something

I’m not usually one to stick up for ministers, but in this case what would you have them do? They can hardly ban fast food or sit down meals over a certain level?
They can prise my (occasional)donner meat with chilli, mayo and cheesy chips out of my cold dead fingers!

Across all these studies, there is a trend toward calorie labeling having no effect on calories purchased at fast food restaurants.

I don’t know how many times this needs saying really. Every study that’s been done on this says the same thing.

That’s not even what I was arguing. But whatever. You seem to have some (loaded) chips on your shoulder about this.

All I’m saying is that I think, as part of a wider piece of education, it will likely have a net positive effect. It might not necessarily persuade someone to buy a ‘healthier’ meal in a particular restaurant, especially if they’ve gone in already knowing what they want to order, but that info might prompt them to subsequently adjust what they eat for the rest of the day, or even week.

Show me the studies that disprove that.

You’ve also just said this yourself:

I’ll make a bet with you that even on here where more than average are clued up about the relationship between their food intake and their waist size, cannot accurately gauge the amount of exercise needed to offset their food intake. (see for instance Chubb club)

So, surely you can agree that something that educates people (us?!) about our relationship with food in general (not *just* food from the restaurant we’re in right now) can potentially be a good thing?

Printing Nutrional information is one tiny part of a solution to a problem that needs to be addressed from multiple angles.

Also this. Will it have a huge impact? I highly doubt it, however I can’t logically see how this can be a bad thing, overall. Fringe cases like eating disorders aside…. in fact I’d hypothesise that people with such disorders are already acutley aware of and able to hunt out lower calorie options without needing a lable to tell them, so probably a minimal or null impact there also.