Calling out for some Engineers….

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  • Calling out for some Engineers….
  • boltonjon
    Member

    Looking for engineers – preferably with aerospace experience but not critical – all experience considered

    Details can be seen in the following link, but if you are interested, send me an email – link in profile

    Cheers

    http://www.totaljobs.com/JobSearch/JobDetails.aspx?JobId=60344348

    Premier Icon ahwiles
    Subscriber

    …A Degree/HND/HNC in an engineering discipline is desirable, but not a prerequisite…

    you’re not looking for engineers, you’re looking for technicians.

    Premier Icon legspin
    Subscriber

    you’re not looking for engineers, you’re looking for technicians

    Here we go!!! tosspot graduates alert

    That link re-directs me to the website’s front page, not a specific advert. Perhaps my current aerospace employer is doing some clever website content filtering?!

    Is the job based in Bolton, John? πŸ˜‰

    Premier Icon wwaswas
    Subscriber

    That link re-directs me to the website’s front page, not a specific advert

    works here.

    Maybe you’ve triggered an internal alert. Boss on his way over?

    cheekyboy
    Member

    legspin – Member

    you’re not looking for engineers, you’re looking for technicians

    Here we go!!! tosspot graduates alert

    Nice one, buy yourself a pint and send me the bill πŸ˜€

    Premier Icon ahwiles
    Subscriber

    me? a tosspot graduate? a tosspot graduate tired of excessive, inappropriate use of the word ‘engineer’?

    yes, it’s a fair cop.

    ‘doctors’ have medical degrees, lawyers have legal degrees, architects have architectural degrees, engineers have engineering degrees, etc.

    Or can i assume sirs would accept a dentist who hadn’t quite got around to attending and completing a university degree course?

    Premier Icon legspin
    Subscriber
    LHS
    Member

    you’re not looking for engineers, you’re looking for technicians.

    Spot on. You can not call yourself an Engineer unless you have a degree from an accredited University. Anyone else is a technician at best.

    My washing machine was fixed by an engineer. It said so on his van.

    Premier Icon igm
    Subscriber

    Or can i assume sirs would accept a dentist who hadn’t quite got around to attending and completing a university degree course?

    ahwiles has you bang to rights

    Premier Icon honeybadgerx
    Subscriber

    You can not call yourself an Engineer unless you have a degree from an accredited University

    You can, (sadly) Engineer is not a protected title.

    That link re-directs me to the website’s front page, not a specific advert. Perhaps my current aerospace employer is doing some clever website content filtering?!

    Skip to 6.55….

    [video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HCVzH7cLeC8[/video]

    Honeybadgerx CEng MICE

    bencooper
    Member

    ‘doctors’ have medical degrees, lawyers have legal degrees, architects have architectural degrees, engineers have engineering degrees, etc.

    Cool, that makes me an astrophysicist πŸ˜‰

    In my experience, an engineer is anyone who knows how to fix a bike better than I do, they just need my help for some reason.

    You can make yourself an engineer with a slightly abused body, a bucket of experience, some self tapping screws and whatever passes for a paper qualification these days.

    boltonjon
    Member

    Ideally, we’d like a graduate engineer but we are also very open to meeting non graduate engineers with frontline aerospace experience who could take to the role

    Based in Wokingham in Berkshire

    I have huge respect for HND/HNC from 10 years ago – but sadly, like a BEng, it has lost some of its credibility

    Thanks for all the very helpful comments above πŸ™‚

    daveh
    Member

    you’re not looking for engineers, you’re looking for technicians.

    Shouldn’t worry about it, the salary offered for that location will see to that…

    Junkyard
    Member

    Engineer is not a protected title

    THIS you can get upset if you want especially if you ever need an industrial heating engineer* πŸ˜‰

    *they even have their own trade body FWIW

    Premier Icon ChrisHeath
    Subscriber

    engineers have engineering degrees

    You know you can become a Chartered Engineer without an engineering degree, right?

    dunsapie
    Member

    I have worked with a number of Chartered Engineers who have HNDs, perhaps they should be Chartered Technicians then.

    Premier Icon ChrisHeath
    Subscriber

    Some of the best engineers I’ve worked with haven’t been degree qualified. And some of the worst have had degrees from the best universities.

    Funny old world, eh?

    Premier Icon honeybadgerx
    Subscriber

    Some of the best engineers I’ve worked with haven’t been degree qualified. And some of the worst have had degrees from the best universities.

    Indeed, those who focus on job titles/qualifications above who has the most relevant experience to the task at hand tend to struggle to knit a happy project team together.

    Part of my job is too familiarise graduates on the company program with some of the more er heritage bits of our technology still in use in our organisation. Some of them are very good, willing to listen and ask questions and others are shocking in their I know everything attitude and won’t listen to even basic safety info.

    One guy I took out for a few days was definately in the latter and I advised him wrap up warm and bring a flask of hot drink as we would be working outside all day in a cold valley bottom in January with no direct sunlight. He looked at me like I’d got three heads and sure enough he turned up the next day in jeans, t-shirt and a high vis jacket, no gloves, hat or warm socks! We started onsite at 0800 and by 1500hrs with his teeth chattering badly I told him to go home.

    Conversely I had a female graduate who after two days was “flying” my radio test set as well as I could and helped lug all my test gear from the van to the site and back.

    All must take the Ming “soldering iron test”, where I plug in the soldering iron leave it for 10 minutes to warm up and then ask them to pass it to me. If they pick it up by the hot bit then they are destined for Project Management and if the don’t burn themselves then they’ll end up in a technical role somewhere. Oh and if I really don’t like them I give them the solder reel with a bit of binding wire wound onto it and watch them get really frustrated when it wont melt!

    Of course I am asking questions like “You have used a soldering iron before?” and “Didn’t they teach you anything practical at that university?”

    Oh I’m a qualified Technician Engineer.

    IanMunro
    Member

    If they pick it up by the hot bit then they are destined for Project Management

    πŸ˜€

    Having an engineering degree no more makes you an engineer than having an art degree makes you an artist.

    You don’t need a degree to become a chartered Engineer but you do have to have completed an accredited academic course and/or sufficient real experience proper engineering experience in lieu to qualify, or a mix of the two. You also have to appear in front of a panel to justify yourself and demonstrate you’ve met the criteria, and I don’t mean changing brake pads on cars or fixing central heating systems. A proper engineer is not a mechanic/technician etc. they may be if the job demands but that’s only part of it. it’s a very different job and requires very different skills. Even knocking stuff up in your shed doesn’t make you an engineer.

    A surgeon uses his hands and tools to do his job, so does a first aider armed with their first aid kit. The two are not the same – I know which one I’d choose to take my appendix out.

    Unfortunately it’s only in this country where engineering is not recognised as a formal and distinct profession.

    hilldodger
    Member

    An engineer

    Another engineer

    lemonysam
    Member

    I’m a User Experience Engineer, does that count?

    Anyone’s job title stretch the definition further?

    A train driver is not an engineer. In name maybe, but that’s it. Brunel was an engineer, Henry Royce was an engineer, r j Mitchell was an engineer. Your local Kwik Fit Fitter is not

    IanMunro
    Member

    Maybe a test on repairing common devices should be part of the qualification. If you can’t fix a washing machine, no Engineer title for you. Just a thought.

    πŸ™‚

    http://www.theengineer.co.uk/opinion/comment/protected-status-titles-and-a-broken-coffee-machine/1015043.article

    Money’s shit, especially for that part of the world.

    Premier Icon Fat-boy-fat
    Subscriber

    I’ll put my usual response to this tired debate; you can call me anything you like, heck you can call Mildred, as long as you pay me in line with my skills and experience, it’s all good.

    Chartered engineer here.

    hilldodger
    Member

    A train driver is not an engineer. In name maybe, but that’s it. Brunel was an engineer, Henry Royce was an engineer, r j Mitchell was an engineer. Your local Kwik Fit Fitter is not

    As a job title ‘Engineer’ in the UK has the same status as ‘Nutritionist’ anyone may call themselves either, in fact I think I’ll set up as a ‘Nutritional Engineer’ πŸ˜›

    peterfile
    Member

    A surgeon uses his hands and tools to do his job, so does a first aider armed with their first aid kit. The two are not the same – I know which one I’d choose to take my appendix out.

    Funny that you pic the one job where upon reaching such lofty heights within your profession, you drop the designation that is otherwise given to practitioners of medicine and go back to plain old Joe Bloggs πŸ™‚

    I wonder whether they get in a tizz if someone uses the wrong title?

    Re engineer. As far as the public are concerned, if you fix or make stuff that we can’t eat or drink then you’e an engineer. We don’t care what kind, so long as you fix our coffee machine/bridge/TV/road

    Premier Icon bearnecessities
    Subscriber

    I was a sky engineer once.

    A somewhat misleading job title.

    hilldodger
    Member

    I wonder whether they get in a tizz if someone uses the wrong title?

    Yes, they do! When I was a postdoc working in NHS the medics got tizzy if I called myself Dr and the surgeons if I called myself Mr πŸ˜•

    Premier Icon MrOvershoot
    Subscriber

    monkeyfudger – Member

    Money’s shit, especially for that part of the world.

    That’s what I thought, the Process Technicians who work for me earn more & that’s in the NW.

    And not one of them even has a BTech. Even I only have an HND (30 years ago!)

    Premier Icon footflaps
    Subscriber

    Money’s shit, especially for that part of the world.

    Possibly the only sensible comment so far, our lab technicians are on more than that.

    It’s not really an engineering role though is it, it’s just a repairs liaison role skim-reading/para-phrasing, and reading between the lines it’s more of a junior role.

    Premier Icon slowoldman
    Subscriber

    My washing machine was fixed by an engineer. It said so on his van.

    Ah now there’s the thing. In Germany if you are an engineer you are invited in to meet the daughter whereas in England you are invited in to fix the washing machine.

    Arguably “Engineer” should be a term reserved for those of chartered status.

    Yrs sincrly, Slowoldman BSc CEng MICE. πŸ˜‰

    PS I have in the past worked with some extremely capable diploma qualified technicians who would knock spots off degree/chartered engineers.

    jools182
    Member

    Mrovershoot- got any jobs going πŸ™‚

    Premier Icon wheelie
    Subscriber

    My friend Frank Costin always said an engineer was someone who could design it, build it and then fly it….maybe he was a bit old fashioned?
    A lot of stuff i build designed by graduate engineers possibly takes 30-50% longer to build due to clumsy and unthought out design.(composites)

    Premier Icon stu170
    Subscriber

    Throwing some fuel onto the fire here, what would you say to an ex RAF technician with only an NVQ level 3 but 9 years real world experience.
    Just because you have done the course and got the paper, doesn’t mean you can really do the job

    Premier Icon ahwiles
    Subscriber

    The Job?

    which job? engineers and technicians are different professions.

    anyway, ignoring that for a moment, just because you’ve done the course, and got the paper, doesn’t mean you can’t do the job – which seems to be what some people are suggesting.

    Premier Icon MrOvershoot
    Subscriber

    jools182 – Member

    Mrovershoot- got any jobs going

    In about 12 months yes(we will be looking to train a replacement next March) one of my team will be 67 (he wanted to stay on a couple of years). and another in a few years time too.

    If you have a good grasp of industrial electrics & PLC control systems (GEM 80 in our case) and a basic level of mechanical engineering skill in pneumatics/hydraulics then your good to go.

    Never mind paper qualifications, it’s what it says on your parking space that matters.

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