Hold on. The kid’s not going to be vegan, is he? Just veggie.

The kid isn’t ‘going’ anything, they just don’t like meat.

I am very confused by veggies who don’t eat meat because they think it’s wrong to kill animals for food but still drink milk.

Because they don’t understand the full milk-production process?

Drinking Milk confuses me, with the exception of Babies feeding from their Mothers lm not sure why grown adults feel the need to suckle from a cow?

I think humans are the only animal that consumes any milk after weaning, and the only one who drinks milk from another species. We’re certainly the only animal that buys a powdered commercially-produced version of something produced for free and naturally by the child’s mother.

I think humans are the only animal that consumes any milk after weaning, and the only one who drinks milk from another species.

… and only in the northern hemisphere, basically:

We’re certainly the only animal that buys a powdered commercially-produced version of something produced for free and naturally by the child’s mother.

Some mothers have problems producing enough milk, it’s not quite as cut and dried as you make out.

and only in the northern hemisphere, basically

People of northern European origin are the only people who can digest it. Something to do with an enzyme needed.

Some mothers have problems producing enough milk, it’s not quite as cut and dried as you make out.

I wasn’t judging anyone, though I suspect that number’s considerably lower than the number of people who buy formula milk.

Drinking Milk confuses me, with the exception of Babies feeding from their Mothers lm not sure why grown adults feel the need to suckle from a cow?

Because it tastes nice…

Drinking Milk confuses me, with the exception of Babies feeding from their Mothers lm not sure why grown adults feel the need to suckle from a cow?

A milkshake is a great recovery drink after a hard run.

[/quote]Because it tastes nice…

Things that ‘taste nice’ got us to this point in evolution..

A balanced fruit and veg diet will tick all the protien boxes, a common mistake for esp new vegans is not taking in enough carbs in a day, if you calculate the carbs daily, almost by default you will also tick the protien box.

+1

I am very confused by veggies who don’t eat meat because they think it’s wrong to kill animals for food but still drink milk.

No need to be confused. Just like meat eaters, vegetarians are vegetarian for all sorts of different reasons. Some of them can even be hypocritical too, just like people who eat meat can be.

Taking a stance on something is surely a good thing, Or if you decide to do something you think is positive, should that mean that unless you are 100% infallable in every area of life, you should completely give up?

To the OP, there is no trouble whatsoever in getting all you need from a veggie diet, so long as it’s healthy and balanced, just like a meat-based diet. Hope you enjoy broadening your foodie repertoire. 🙂

I think humans are the only animal that consumes any milk after weaning, and the only one who drinks milk from another species.

I think cats would beg to differ. But its a pretty meaningless making comparisons between ourselves and other species – they have their diets and and a physiology that has evolved around it and we have ours – and ours has evolved around our farming activities as much as our previous hunting and gathering ones. Early humans didn’t consume milk form other species because it wasn’t really available and they couldn’t have digested it properly if it was. But for quite a long time humans have been keeping livestock rather than chasing it and growing crops rather than foraging and out physiology has changed to reflect that

Its a relatively recent part of human evolution to drink milk its only since the advent of farming rather than hunting and even then early farmers tapped cows for their blood rather than their milk as that was available all the time rather than in small amounts sometimes. Some cultures some still do tap cows for blood, or make a mixture of blood and milk to eat. Theres nothing broadly unhealthy about drinking milk unless you’re not personally well adapted to it. Its only unhealthy to drink too much of it, but then its unhealthy to drink or eat too much of anything.

Consuming too much is easy as there milk hidden in pretty much everything so you can decide not eat milk, butter or cheese and still be consuming quite a bit of it

. We’re certainly the only animal that buys a powdered commercially-produced version of something produced for free and naturally by the child’s mother.

This is true.
Absolutely no other animal appears to use a cash based policy for obtaining resources.

My two kids are vegan. They haven’t died yet and are perfectly healthy, and other than giving them a normal varied diet, we don’t pay much attention to making sure they get x amount of protein/minerals or anything else like that.

As for the veggies being hypocrites for drinking milk thing, if you follow the logic to it’s end the only viable option to be strictly ‘cruelty free’ would be to become self-sufficient and grow all your own food and make all your own clothes/household products/medicines etc. That’s not exactly feasible in this country so compromises have to be made. You can either focus on the positive things you do, or the negative things you don’t.

You can either focus on the positive things you do, or the negative things you don’t.

Well said.

vegetarians are vegetarian for all sorts of different reasons

Agreed. I have met some who just don’t like meat, some who do it because they believe “Meat is Murder” and some who do it as they believe it is more healthy.

From my first post

because they think it’s wrong to kill animals for food

you are 100% infallable in every area of life

Well it’s not its a minor slip is it?

If you take the stance that you think “Meat is Murder” how can you support an industry that slaughters roughly 50% of its animals at birth?

Drinking Milk confuses me

It’s not that confusing. It’s healthy, nutritous, readily availble (if you farm beef) and tasty. Also useful for making lots of other really yummy but less healthy things.

plenty of veggie options even in McDs

Haven’t been in there for years, what else (vegetarian) can you get apart from fries and a cup of tea?

[quoteIt’s not that confusing. It’s healthy, nutritous, readily availble (if you farm beef) and tasty.[/quote]

My biggest health and fitness benefits came when i gave up dairy. What healthy nutritious foods can you make with dairy products that you could,nt make with other more healthy alternatives?

My biggest health and fitness benefits came when i gave up dairy

What benefits are those? I’ve had to give up dairy but I’m not noticing or able to measure a way in which I’m either healthier or fitter as a result.

@natrix – last thing I had was a veggie wrap – kind of like a poor man’s falafel wrap but will do when the need arises, also seem to recall salad boxes.

My biggest health and fitness benefits came when i gave up dairy.

Not everyone deals with it well, for sure – just like wheat and quite a few other foods probably.

But for a lot of people it is healthy and nutritious.

What benefits are those?

Less bloated, clearer skin esp face where i used to get rashes around my eyes, my power on the bike vs h.r went up and h.r recovery was faster to rest. I phased different things out of my diet over a period of 6 months to vegan. I cut dairy in June and noticed the differences within a couple of weeks. The changes with dairy were more noticable than any other change, like cutting excess salt, red meat, fizzy drinks etc

Another huge change was just drinking water in leu of all other liquids ,although i do have one cup of organic coffee a day… im finding that harder to give up

readily availble (if you farm beef)

Nothing to do with farming beef.

Milk comes from dairy cows. If you farm beef you do not milk your herd.

I should’ve said ‘if you farm cows’.

Do they still get dairy cows pregnant to get them lactating? Or is that old fashioned now? Does that not produce a surplus of cows?

Does that not produce a surplus of cows?

Dunno, but they kill all the boy cowlets 🙁
I’ve sacked off bread and feel much better for it. Also dropped a load of fat by sacking off whey and micellar casein. Tried almond “milk”, it’s revolting and expensive. Not recommended.

We farm Beef Cattle (144 of the buggers) at the farm and we don’t force anything.
We let them eat grass and shit.
No idea about lactating MooCows for milk production but suggest it’s probably soo 1970’s..

As far as popping into restaurants goes, I’ve never had issues with Veggie options, most restatuants off this choice, if they don’t they are frankly idiots. Issue I do have though is the quiality of preparation of the Veggie options, ie: if it’s stew, does it have animal stock in it.. that’s my main question when in restaurants.

Of course they get them pregnant why do you think they lactate – its not for you its for the calf that is removed. Also tends to be done by artificial insemination as well

I am very confused by veggies who don’t eat meat because they think it’s wrong to kill animals for food but still drink milk.

On the last thread you were confused about vegans who may then eat veg that may have been fertilised by animal shit

So the choices are
1. You are just confused
2. you are a troll
3. you spend too much time thinking about other folks diets

MM interesting I notice a pattern of you being confused by those who dont eat meat

DO meat eaters confuse you or just those **** deniers of flesh?
Why would they boil a lobster alive but only a monster would do this to a baby robbin or kitten?

As far as popping into restaurants goes, I’ve never had issues with Veggie options, most restatuants off this choice, if they don’t they are frankly idiots. Issue I do have though is the quiality of preparation of the Veggie options, ie: if it’s stew, does it have animal stock in it.. that’s my main question when in restaurants.

As an ex-veggie I can tell you it’s definitely an issue if you travel abroad – although in Madrid, at least, it’s got a lot easier over the past 15 years.

Why would they boil a lobster alive but only a monster would do this to a bay robbin or kitten?

coz you slow roast a kitten or baby robin and the buggers won’t lie still for you in the roasting tin.

😀 Makes sense thanks for your expertise….you monster 😉

Not to mention a lobster is basically a giant sea cockroach, and who cares about ‘roaches?

Junkyard – Yes I am confused as I have not seen an explanation in how they handle their dilemma.

As I said above about veggies who eat dairy for the reasons stated above.
It would seem to me for somebody who feels so strongly about something and can make the decision to not eat meat, surely skipping on diary for the same reasons is a very obvious and easy progression?

The question I asked about vegans, who wish to avoid all animal products, how do you do it? Personally, I think in the 1st World it is impossible to completely avoid foods that are not directly connected to the mass commercial slaughter of animals, so where would someone draw the line and how far do people go to avoid this?

Do they still get dairy cows pregnant to get them lactating? Or is that old fashioned now? Does that not produce a surplus of cows?

The surplus of dairy cows are how we get veal, which is delicious.

you need to keep an eye on amino acids (as opposed to protein) if you are veggie. eggs are the only veggie option with all 9 essential amino acids in. (meat has them all)

you need to be careful about eating them in successive meals because they only last a short time in the body.

There are little tricks which become easy. lemon juice on salad, nuts in stir fry etc.

this book is helpful if you want to read up.

The question I asked about vegans, who wish to avoid all animal products, how do you do it?

The short answer: With great difficulty. In reality though it’s not as much of an issue as you think. In general it’s very easy to be vegan in respect to the obvious stuff like meat, dairy products, wearing leather etc. It gets more difficult when you consider food additives and ingredients, cosmetics, medicines etc. Even something as simple as beer is a minefield. However this is all assuming that you see veganism as a complete and total boycott of anything that comes from an animal. The reality is different. Most vegans I know (myself included) see it less as of a black and white label, and more as a lifestyle choice which gives you something to aim for. You do the things you can, within your own limits, and you focus on the positive things, rather than dwell on the negative things. It is after all a positive lifestyle choice so it makes little sense to worry about small negative things for the sake of a label. I always preferred the term ‘cruelty free’ to veganism anyway.

You do the things you can, within your own limits, and you focus on the positive things, rather than dwell on the negative things.

aye I can see that. Some people ride to work happy in the knowledge that they are saving the planet despite their bikes having been mass produced, using heat and electricity, the materials probably mined by some underpaid lackey in god awful conditions. And the roads what about the roads? SO much energy and materials. If you wanna save the planet you should probably be walking to work barefoot wearing a hessian sack, in fact scratch work, live in a cave and grow your own food cause otherwise you’re just a hypocrite.

dazh- Thanks for the insight.

Even something as simple as beer is a minefield.

Never thought of that one!

Veggie / Vegan here

Overall its not as hard as you think and the whole argument as to where do you get your protein from etc is a non-starter, its very easy to get all your daily needs from Vegan food. Feel loads healthier when i went from a carnivore to vegetarian and a loads healthier again when i cut dairy out of my diet. Have never drunk milk, never will.

eggs are the only veggie option with all 9 essential amino acids in

What!
As I understand it, that’s simply not the case.
All plant-based proteins have all of them. They differ in the amounts, so by combining them your body has the ability to make protein.

Your body finds it easier to get these amino acids from plants than it does from eggs, dairy and meat.

Edit: This table is on a per-calorie basis, which is obviously easy to confuse. Don’t go thinking that it’s by weight.
That means that you’d have to eat an awful lot of iceburg lettuce to make it a complete source of protein (hence the advice to combine), but I wanted to show that they are all ‘complete’ proteins.

What!
As I understand it, that’s simply not the case.
All plant-based proteins have all of them. They differ in the amounts, so by combining them your body has the ability to make protein.

Your body finds it easier to get these amino acids from plants than it does from eggs, dairy and meat.

This.

Some mis-informed information being posted here. As stated, your body can extract and use the essential amino acids far better from plant based sources as well as nuts and pulses etc.

What about iron?

Docs advice to anaemic people is meat, afaik. From reading on the subject it would appear that it is easier to get iron from meat than plants.

Again a myth. There is more iron in things like squash, pumpkin seeds and nuts than there is in meat. Lentils have the same percentage content of Iron as meat. (There are differences between heme and non-heme sources of iron, heme is easier to absorb but non-heme is better regulated and better for the body.)