Viewing 40 posts - 41 through 80 (of 86 total)
  • Calling all hardtail riders!
  • thisisnotaspoon
    Free Member

    after watching a low end kona dawg (the old 4″ heavy as a modern DH bike one) pull away from me on the lower section of stanage causeway i sower i’d get a full suss.

    3 years later i still havent.

    Although I’m a firm believer that change and swaping bikes is good;

    Riding BMX at a skate park for a few hours reveals flaws in your weight distribution and body language you never knew you had.

    Riding a road bike is the only real way to train for 8 hour rides

    Riding a race BMX shows you how to jump properly

    Riding a full susser gets you used to riding a lot faster over bumps and cornering.

    After each of those times i’ve gone back to the hardtail and its been a quantum leap in terms of impovement. If you get the chance to try another bike take it, it will always improve your riding one way or another.

    ericemel
    Free Member

    As a general statement, no I wouldn’t [:)] and that’s having had plenty of both. There are plenty of steel frames that are no less harsh than most alu frames and actually visa versa.

    I do agree to a point, a steel frame can be built to be stiff, alot of hardcore hardtails are like this and of course BMX’s. But I personally never owned or ridden an ali frame that was in the comfy category – flex really isn’t in the nature of ali alloys that are used for frame building – I would like to see the ali frame that has rear dropout spacing of 132.5mm for both road and mtb hubs (a la cotic road rat). Though I am open to the idea of their existence.

    mansonsoul
    Free Member

    My Cotic Simple is just like the name says, simple. Beautifully so. I also ride BMX and appreciate the simplicity of it, the direct ride, with 120mm Pikes, and loads of bunnyhopping, pumping and hauling the bike around, I don’t believe I could have more fun. I recently tried SPDs on my bike. And they made me ride like an XCer, just rolling over things, not properly riding the bike, being involved in the ride.
    Hardtails are ace.

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    sofatester
    Free Member

    “And they made me ride like an XCer, just rolling over things, not properly riding the bike, being involved in the ride.”

    Oh dear, lets not start that again!

    mansonsoul
    Free Member

    Sorry…

    stilltortoise
    Free Member

    I went through a similar process (with a smaller budget) and bought a hardtail. It wasn’t the right bike to be honest and I should have done more homework. I then did my homework, bought a full susser and loved it. My poor old hardtail then got used as a shopping bike.

    Fast forward a couple of years and I’ve shortened the stem, put on wider riser bars and fitted a super-light rigid fork on my hardtail. I now LOVE riding it but it is MILES away from the ride my FS offers.

    The point to all this is that although I love my hard-tail, if I was in the market for one bike I would defo go for full sus for trail centres, long rides, XC, Alps etc etc

    HTTP404
    Free Member

    tell me why you love them so much?

    There’s nothing quite like the feeling of overtaking a susser downhill. 🙂

    crazy-legs
    Full Member

    North, the only way is to try out lots of different bikes and see what feels right for YOU. There’s no right and wrong answer. The right bike for you will be ace whether it’s FS/HT/full rigid, the wrong bike will put you off riding forever.
    Try stuff out, work out what you’ll be riding. For 99% of stuff in the UK you don’t NEED a FS. Sure, it can be nice, it can be fun, but so can a HT in it’s own different way.
    I own both but the the bike I will take away on holidays to the Alps/Pyrenees, the bike I will ride most of the time in the UK is the HT. The FS has it’s place and I’d never be without it but for me, the HT is simply a more involving ride. (In fact at this time of year, the bike I ride most often is my cyclo-cross bike, sure it’s often slower off road but it’s still loads of fun!)

    gingerflash
    Full Member

    What he said. 🙂

    North84
    Free Member

    the fact I have never rode a full suss means I dont know what I am missing lol.

    from the 2 hardtails I mentioned earlier, which of the two would be a better buy?

    crazy-legs
    Full Member

    from the 2 hardtails I mentioned earlier, which of the two would be a better buy?

    Whichever feels best for you! There isn’t a right/wrong answer. It’s not the answer you want to hear I know, one may well represent better value for money in terms of component spec etc but the only way to tell is to ride them both. One will (almost certainly) feel ‘better’ in some indefinable quality. If they both feel identical then get the best value for money one, the one that has the best deal/most money knocked off.

    MrAgreeable
    Full Member

    Both of those bikes look pretty stretched out and racey to be honest. I’d go for something a bit shorter and slacker with a 5″ fork, like a Marin Rocky Ridge or a Genesis Alptitude.

    North84
    Free Member

    Mr Agreeable, thank god there folk like u out there mate, I would never in a million years notice that they are stretched out! so the xtc alliannce 1 would be the same then mate?

    rs
    Free Member

    Just read the last few posts but hired the genesis alpitude at glentress when i was back in the UK over xmas, very nice bike and I would take it over any alloy framed bike. Since trying that now have a dialled alpine which is kind of similar and loving that. Depends what your prefer of course, stretched out is fine if thats what you like.

    MrAgreeable
    Full Member

    Well, obviously whether it’s stretched out or not depends to some extent on the rider. But compared to some bikes those two look quite long and have a “nose down, arse up” riding position.

    If you compare that one:

    With the bike I’ve got:

    the differences are pretty noticeable, no?

    Although, this being STW, someone will probably be along to quote the head angles of both bikes and prove me wrong…

    scott_mcavennie2
    Free Member

    Always hearing about different bikes for different things, and really I just want a do it all bike – can fly around xc courses, could commute on if I wanted to, can take it on holiday with me and do something stupid. I’m not a downhill racer so I don’t need a 63 degree head angle with triple clamp forks and half a foot f+r. A hardtail fits my bill and is bloody good fun.

    Ironically I do actually have two bikes, one geared h/t for the weekend and one singlespeed h/t for commuting / keeping fit on during the week. But my reasons for riding the hardtail each time remain the same (and really I ride both to keep the geared one in better nick).

    I have to say, while my current hardtail was being built I loaned a Nicolai Helius for a day. Got used to the rear suss pretty quickly, but my hardtail was more fun, and more confidence inspiring strangely. Must be a personal thing.

    rs
    Free Member

    I was agreeing with you mr agreeable. Personally i couldn’t go back to riding a short travel race type hardtail, had a shot of a friends stumpjumper hardtail last year and it just felt weird and didn’t inspire confidence on anything remotely technical.

    hora
    Free Member

    I love my hardtail but if someone offered me the new Intense tracer then I’d call all hardtailers ‘gay’ 🙂

    jarl
    Free Member

    I love my HT. On one inbred with some 6″ air forks on the front. Although there’s no doubt in my mind that FS’s are faster and you can do lairy stuff on them, if you want to be able to do silly stuff with little skill, then buy a motocross bike*. If you want a more involving (and fun) ride, then get a HT with a decent pair of forks (5″+) and ride it like you stole it. Overtake boys on 6″ FS bikes on the way down…. hell, I take the fight to 8″ downhill rigs on my hardtail (I rarely win, but I like to think I give them a run for their money).

    The reason I love HT is that it’s really simple; having no squidge between me and the back wheel feels good IMO, and I prefer the uncluttered look. Also, I love how it’ll do anything- if I wanted to, I can commute on it, or I can race DH on it (you get a lot of weird looks doing this ;)), or mince along with some XC boys. It’s great =)

    * I rode motocross a little while back. I know you need skill, but it’s easily possible to do stuff on a crosser that you’d never dream of doing on a bicycle….

    MrAgreeable
    Full Member

    Sorry rs, that was aimed more at North84. Of course, he might find that he loves riding a fast racey hardtail rather than a slack chunky one, so 2nd the “try before you buy” comments.

    elaineanne
    Free Member

    i ride a womens Hardtail…. but looking to get full suss in the near future… i like my hardtail but feel that i need that something extra !

    rs
    Free Member

    no probs, slack and chunky 😆 think you just invented a new niche or at least a new name for an existing one.

    MrAgreeable
    Full Member

    Elaine Anne, why? Is a full susser going to be easier to learn new skills on than a hardtail, or let you clear a difficult bit of trail that’s been defeating you? Not having a go, just wondering. 🙂

    james
    Free Member

    The XTC and 8000 are both quite long/racey/perhaps harsher ride compared to most MTBs. On paper that sounds about right for mountain mayhem type events and red trails
    So too would a similar full suss bike (a racey 100mm bike). eg a trek top fuel, specialized epic, giant anthem x.

    It’s a lot more than whether it’s a hardtail or full suss. The fork travel is generally a decent indicator as to how well it will descend/ascend. There are (lots of) exceptions of course, but it generally applies to the mainstream manufacturers

    Something like the giant trance X, trek fuel EX, specialized stumpjumper FSR, marin mount vision offer around 120/130mm travel, slacker angles and shorter cockpits. All better for the downhills, but impair the ups by comparison to the 100mm racey bikes

    Though the mainstream manufactuers dont seem to make them, there are a number of hardtails with this sort of travel. Genesis Core/APtitude (not altitude), orange P7 (cotic soul, pipedream sirrus, on one inbred) will ride similarly to the 120mm full sussers, riding uphill a bit better.
    Adjustable travel forks will to make the uphills a bit easier too

    Beyond you start to get the even shorter cockpits/slacker angles/longer travel stuff, (like the black cove pictured above) where the climbs start to become a lot harder
    The same goes for full suss bikes (though most tend to be more all-day-rideable than similar travel hardtails at the same travel)

    Some seriously sweeping generalisations there, but it ought to help you out a bit instead of beiong told to go buy the biggest travel meanest/best bike downhill you can get your hands on. Which may have been appropriate, but you’ve already laid out what you want to use it for, and something like this is far from ideal.

    I’d be looking at something with 100-130mm travel (HT or FS – its your call based on the generalised comparisons already here)
    How ‘racey’ (generally a lot better uphill, faster on the smooth straighter stuff) you want it is upto you. You’re not really going to go too far wrong.

    Personally I’d try to get something to do a bit of everything, like a genesis apitude:

    120mm fork, high end steel (light) frame. Nice and fast, rideable all day, but capable when it needs to be

    Else a 120/130mm full suss. Maybe not as quick (on the ups/across), but a more comfy (though you shouldn’t rly be sitting down on the rough downhills anyway), and a bit more capable when things get nasty

    garage-dweller
    Full Member

    Back to the original Q.

    I have a 5″ FS bike and a racey XC hardtail.

    90% of the time the FS bike batters the trail into submission and doesn’t give the connected electric ride of the hardtail. It’s really only remotely worthwhile on trips to trail centres.

    I can lap my local 7k trail centre trail quicker on the hardtail and its way more fun. So the hardtail gets out more often.

    Thinking of combining the 2 into an RC305/Stiffee and passing on the other kit so I have one do everything HARDTAIL.

    chico
    Free Member

    just bought a dawg 2008 this week with pro pedal fox float2 rear shock. tested it out tonight and was well impressed i would say as good as my hard tail when locked. will be of to llandegla on saturday with it for a proper test. will keep the hard tail though as i love that.

    RepacK
    Free Member

    I have both. A HT & a FS. Ive ridden both all day long – yes I feel a little more bruised after a big day on my HT (Ive raced it in the Alps & on those big climbs you want a stiff rear end..fnar fnar.. Riding my HT means I have to work harder on some aspects of my riding but I cldnt ride my HT the same way as my FS – its just not as forgiving.

    Its horses for courses both bikes have different characteristics. The HT makes me ride better & the FS lets me get away with stuff! 😈

    roughneck
    Free Member

    After riding a Chameleon for 2 years I’m looking for a FS. I’m keeping the Cham for winter and short rides. It’s fitness that slows me down.

    james
    Free Member

    “Back to the original Q”

    The OP did ask (At the bottom of the first page) what bike to buy

    bounty69
    Free Member

    Hi North84,

    I have ridden for 20+ years. am now 33 and have been riding full suss for both downhill and trail for over 5 years. I have loved the overall ‘experience’ if you want to call it that but i recently found myself without a trail bike for a short while and i borrowed a mates hard tail. It was a Chameleon. I rode Llandegla on it which i reckon is a fair example of trail centres in the UK. not to flat , not to harsh………. bottom line…….. i found my roots again, i loved it, i was reunited with my biking, oh my god what more can i say…..full sussers are great fun but hardtails are even more so for most, i say most not all trails that you will come accross in the UK.

    I went out within a week of borrowing my mates and built my own up (check my pics), i built it strong with fox 36’s up front set at 130mm, it rides like a dream and i can pin it with the rest of them.

    The bottom line is this, i get the feeling of total connectivity with the trail, yes you have to work for it and you can’t get away with the mistakes you can on a f/s, which in turn makes you a better rider. Remember this, that up until 6 or so years ago i would have ridden a lot of the types of trail we ride now on a hardtail with 100mm of front end travel, no problem.

    sorry to go on but i really feel that hardtails are great for most UK trails and that actually travel ‘inches’ have just got silly over recent years. I remember when Gracia rode world cup races on a 7 inch bike only 2 years ago and d/h courses havn’t changed that much sisnce then.

    You really don’t need 6 inches or even 5 for the uk trails it’s just silly.

    Anyway, heres my pic of my new beloved Chameleon.

    Cheers,

    Bounty69

    glooptrooper
    Free Member

    North84

    Mr Agreeable talks sense, especially about try before you buy, but if it helps I recently bought an XTC1 and love it. Then again I don’t get very technical just like to get out and ride.

    Guilliano
    Free Member

    I love both, but would trade in my full suss for a hardtail if I had to choose just one bike. I ride XC mainly and have done all day rides on both (10-12 hours) and if I had to have 1 bike it would be a steel or Ti HT with a 120mm fork such as the Genesis Altitude, Charge Duster (owned and loved dearly) or Cove Handjob/Hummer. BUT….. try and get a demo of each of your chosen steeds for your usual riding terrain and then make a decision. Until you have ridden where you will normally on each you’ll never know what will suit you best

    buzz-lightyear
    Free Member

    The hardtail is a more involving ride, without the speed/tracking/tiredness issues of a rigid fork.

    The FS better handles rougher, faster lines and compensates for my riding errors, so is more thrilling. And it is also less tiring on long rides.

    mikey74
    Free Member

    [/quote]90% of the time the FS bike batters the trail into submission and doesn’t give the connected electric ride of the hardtail. It’s really only remotely worthwhile on trips to trail centres.

    That is the biggest pile of tripe I have ever heard: Full suspension is suitable for alot more than just trail centres. in fact, I would say that trail centres are where they make the least impact, because of the smoother man-made surface.

    the_lecht_rocks
    Full Member

    The great debate 🙂

    MrAgreeable
    Full Member

    Glooptrooper, that’s fair enough and to be honest my experience of riding stretched out racey bikes is quite limited – I’m sure in the right hands they can get down anything a slack-angled “hardcore” bike can.

    However if you’re a person who is maybe thinking of getting a full suss to increase their confidence on the challenging stuff, then a burly hardtail with a short top tube, low standover and big-ish forks is going to help far more than a racey front ‘n’ backer.

    nedrapier
    Full Member

    *** I wrote this below then saw your post was 3 weeks ago. what did you get?

    I have a lovely high end steel hardtail. I’ve had it for ages and I’m probably more attached to it than I should be.

    A typical ride for me would be a half day hack around the North Downs. There have been a fair few trail centre days, 100mile days off road, long country road rides, Chicky, Mountain Mayhem solo. Comfort wise, I’ve had problems with my knees, but nothing I think a FS would solve.

    Maybe I’d have been less tired with a FS on the big days, and there have been times where I’ve been through fast rocky bits that would have been easier on a FS. But I like the sound of “that day/section would have been better if I was fitter/ more skilful” more than “that would have been better on a FS bike”. The Mudtain Mayhem would have been more of a pain in the arse on a FS, for sure!

    I ride a hardtail because it was the bike I bought 10 years ago, and it handles everything I ride pretty well. I don’t want to sell it or buy a 2nd bike.

    If I did buy a FS, it would be because I’d moved to somewhere like Chamonix or BC and then it’d be something like a Cove Hustler rather than a daintier FS. Even then, if most of the guys I rode with stuck to hardtails, I probably would too.

    Everyone’s different though, and you won’t know want till you tried it. As others have said, test out some likely suspects, look at more “in the middle” hardtails than the ones you looked at on page 1: Genesis Altitude, P7, Cotic Soul

    Have fun!

    firestarter
    Free Member

    these threads make me chuckle they always regresses to the singlespeed argument style . On how people love to beat full sus riders on hardtails like the ss crowd argue i love to beat the geared lot on climbs lol??For the record i have a full sus and im currently building a five inch ht. And ride ss too :-)?personally i just like different bikes for different rides. Dalby on the ht full sus and cx are all different but fun where as i find stainburn on a full sus harder than on a ht. ?But if it were a choice of ht or fullsus id probably have to be swayed by budget tho id prefer a full sus.

    firestarter
    Free Member

    used trail centres as example as you dont know my local rides lol oh and pardon the lack of punctuation etc im still trying yo work out my phone 🙂

    ononeorange
    Full Member

    OK. Usual caveats apply that this just is my personal view and shouldn’t necessarily be applied to anyone else etc etc.

    1. My local terrain is not really “technical”;
    2. My hardtail(s) are lighter than my FS;
    3. My FS tends to wander a lot on climbs and is pretty vague on steering generally (even with forks wound right down).

    Conclusion: I ride my HT’s about 95% of the time and generally enjoy riding them much more over the FS.

    Took my Ti456 up to the Peak District at the weekend, whilst I was slightly slower over the technical stuff, it generally out-climbed my pals who were all on FS. Excellent fun, great bike. Swings, and, er, roundabouts, as stated elsewhere.

Viewing 40 posts - 41 through 80 (of 86 total)

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