Calderdale sanitisation – blue pig update

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  • Calderdale sanitisation – blue pig update
  • hora
    Member

    A WILD Guess (and question): labour and cost is it cheaper to hire and dump a load of loose aggregrate compared to laying small/medium slabs?

    Premier Icon Mr Agreeable
    Subscriber

    Much cheaper and quicker and requires no specialist knowledge or techniques.

    Even doing it properly with gravel is quite a fine art.

    Premier Icon unklehomered
    Subscriber

    Its certainly quicker, and simpler, its basically the brute force method.

    Councils kind of follow the path of least resistance, so resistance to this kind of thing needs to be increased. Local paper would be a good idea, cos it really does look awful.

    Premier Icon Mr Agreeable
    Subscriber

    Local press would be great. Just make sure they also get critical quotes from horse riders and walkers so it’s not just seen as a couple of moaning lycra louts.

    Premier Icon unklehomered
    Subscriber

    I was going to mention maybe leave out the MTBing, just visitors and path users, money to economy, distinctive characteristics etc… otherwise it could segway into something else, it would if it was my local paper, but my local paper is dire.

    nick1962
    Member

    By way of balance that bit of “trail” (if it’s at the top)is in a residential area and locals may well have asked for it to be “sanitised” to make it more pedestrian/child/buggy/rambler friendly so they can access the road.Let’s see what response you get as to the reason this work was carried out.
    As for the bottom section everytime I’ve ridden it in daytime I have encountered walkers, on one occasion an elderly couple actually remarked they were now struggling on some sections because so much had been washed away.Don’t they have a right to use the path too?
    The quality/suitability of any repair is a different matter and that needs MTBers input but it’s not just our path.
    Maybe someone complained about the procession of MTBers flying down the trail trying to get KOMs 🙂

    hora
    Member

    The two houses below that are within metres/access to Hep’- I wonder if they had a say (or pushed for this?).

    I quite like CTC and not just because they namechecked SingletrAction loads in a recent article (http://www.ctc.org.uk/file/public/201305046-feature-making-tracks.pdf)

    I suspect they’re probably the best bet for a co-ordinated MTB advocacy group at national level. AS well as them doing stuff it’s also about people finding a bit of stuff that they can do and then doing it. I quite liked Chipps recent editorial about “there’s no them to do trail tidying (or much else really) on behlaf of riders. Was a good point well made.

    The lack of familiarity, confidence, expertise, perception issues, glacial pace of certain organisations etc all conspire to dampen the enthusiasm of the young-bucks (or even old) salts when it comes to trail or PROW issues. An inability to compromise or see matters from numerous perspectives, not just your own, are also obstacles to getting more trail done.

    Don’t know how it all gets solved but just keep beavering away at bits and pieces as do mugboo, unkle, Paul and many others.

    Of course, bloody volunteers falling out amongst themselves is a bit of a bugger as well 😉

    grum
    Member

    As for the bottom section everytime I’ve ridden it in daytime I have encountered walkers, on one occasion an elderly couple actually remarked they were now struggling on some sections because so much had been washed away.Don’t they have a right to use the path too?

    How would dumping a load of loose gravel on a steep path help them to use it though?

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    How would dumping a load of loose gravel on a steep path help them to use it though?

    2 issues,
    First wasting tax payers money on repairs that tick a box but achieve nothing except for overtime for the lads doing it.
    Secondly making ROW’s usable for all

    Premier Icon Mugboo
    Subscriber

    ThePinkster – your no doubt right about joining the CTC

    BadlyWiredDog – thanks for the info on the Ramblers, etc.

    I know the threads about the Blue Pig but surely this one trail is a red herring compared with the big picture? How do we move forward?

    If the CTC are capable of being the body & SingletrAction, PMBA, etc are already affiliated, is it just a matter of joining them on mass and aiming our letters in their direction?

    Premier Icon Mugboo
    Subscriber

    One other point.

    Following this issue and the peak district one. I am drowning in sea of acronyms and associations! Is there a simple and definitive answer as to who to vent your spleen/point your carefully worded letter at?

    Premier Icon MadBillMcMad
    Subscriber

    slightly off topic to this but of concern to me is the maintenance/conservation of all the ancient pack horse trails around Calderdale.

    I see them as 8th wonder of the world.

    IMO these should be given some protection status just in case a heavy handed council says they need ‘improving’/made safe as they are bound to do for public bridleways.

    dannyh
    Member

    Surely the increased speeds now achievable on that path will make it far more difficult to brake in a controlled manner 😈

    Add some mother nature and a few ‘longest skid’ contests and I think character could be restored?

    I agree totally with the OP’s sentiments though. What next, running a road to the top of Snowdon so people don’t have to get out of their cars to get up there?

    Premier Icon Mugboo
    Subscriber

    Or a train..

    Premier Icon Simon
    Subscriber

    😆
    It’s already possible to drive up Snowdon.

    Premier Icon Mugboo
    Subscriber

    If you don’t mind prison food 🙂

    Premier Icon Clover
    Subscriber

    There’s a suggestion that the South Pennine Walk and Ride Festival coordinate a couple of days of trail maintenance in the area as part of the Festival – 7-22 September, with the excellent Bill Brady.

    The idea is to get out and fix trails properly before the gravel-it-over brigade get to them.

    Could be a very nice weekend for anyone who wants to come along – a day of riding and a day of digging!

    Premier Icon ratherbeintobago
    Subscriber

    2 issues,
    First wasting tax payers money on repairs that tick a box but achieve nothing except for overtime for the lads doing it.
    Secondly making ROW’s usable for all

    As above, any campaign must be based around these two issues, and there is a risk that it just sounds like MTBers moaning about de-teching sections otherwise. Has anyone approached the local bridelway assocation about this? Aside from the weatherproofing issues (don’t they need rain bars with gravel on any kind of slope?) I can’t imagine loose grave on a slope on a nag would be much fun.

    Andy

    If I wasn’t down south at a relatives party this weekend, I’d be shoving a pair of Minions on, a rear facing camera and going for the longest skid contest. Enough time between the main street and the gravel starting to pick up enough speed to carry you locked up a long way down there…

    And of course this isn’t the answer. Question is, in terms of sustainable trail maintenance, the only way to make something thats suitable for walkers, horse people and riders is hardpack dirt. When it erodes, more hardpack dirt. Any kind of rocky armouring isn’t going to please anyone…

    Premier Icon Mr Agreeable
    Subscriber

    http://www.iprow.co.uk/gpg/index.php/Steps_and_Stone_Pitching

    http://www.snh.org.uk/uplandpathwork/3.4.shtml

    Something like this would be perfect around Calderdale – hard-wearing, water-resistant, unobtrusive, plus the local stone is really grippy.

    Unfortunately it’s a lot more work and potential expense than paying a generic contractor to tip scalpings on it.

    B.A.Nana
    Member

    Any kind of rocky armouring isn’t going to please anyone…

    Why not? sounds the ideal solution to me, financially prohibative for the council tho maybe, unless they could bring horse riders/walkers/mtbers all together in a voluntery utopian wheelbarrow push..

    edlong
    Member

    Mountain biking, by contrast, is a relatively young sport. It’s not focussed on clubs in the way that older sports are. Many of the participants are relatively young with lots in their lives beyond riding bikes

    I think part of the problem of an organised, collective voice for “mountain biking” is that definition. Is it a sport? Is it a pastime? Well it’s either and its both. But, looking at the comparison, the Ramblers Association focuses on walking as a pastime. The sports side of walking is run by different people. Now, in mountain biking, what organisation there is seems to be predominantly on the sports (i.e. competitive) side of things, perhaps the access / rights of way stuff is getting missed because we don’t have a “ramblers” mountain biking organisation for those of us who want to ride mountain bikes around the countryside, but have no interest in racing people while doing it?

    B.A.Nana
    Member

    edlong
    British Cycling deal with the competative sport side of cycling
    CTC would be more like the ramblers

    edlong
    Member

    Cheers BA

    I thought CTC was more road oriented? (Not done my research, just the impression I have of them) Do they concern themselves with the issues of those of a more knobbly-tyred bent?

    B.A.Nana
    Member

    I guess they are more road orientated, that makes up probably 90% of their membership. They do represent MTB, but in a small way at the moment. There are a couple of relevant points above, mtber saying they will not join CTC until they are represented, but CTC are going to represent their membership base, chicken and egg etc etc.
    there’s even a link a few posts above^^ to an article in the lastest CTC members magazine about trail centres and trail building, including quotes from volunteer trail builders and professional trail builders.

    edlong
    Member

    What’s the Ramblers Association’s stance on MTBing? From all the posts you read about militant “red socks” blocking trails one might suppose they’d be anti, but is that just the small minority getting noticed?

    It strikes me that on the non-sporting side, the issues MTBers have have got more in common with ramblers than with road cyclists (rights of way, access, shared hatred of hooligans in 4x4s or on MX bikes chewing up the countryside etc.)

    Can we get the RA to have a MTB “wing”? The reality is that they (the RA) are the ones who always seem to have their feet under the table when there’s “consultation” processes going on.

    Premier Icon Mugboo
    Subscriber

    I vote you write that letter 🙂

    Who knows, maybe we all have the wrong impression.

    B.A.Nana
    Member

    [reply]
    Thank you for your kind letter
    We’ve watched your sweary northerners video.
    Thanks, but no thanks!
    Yours
    Red Socks Brigade.
    [/reply]

    Premier Icon unklehomered
    Subscriber

    A while ago on the kilder anniversary I and some others engaged with them a bit. Not anti as such, but in no way pro, pretty anti shared use footpaths etc…

    RamblersUK follow singletraction’s twitter feed… Keep your friends close… 😉

    B.A.Nana
    Member

    keep your enemy close…., do you mean?

    There are shared interests and common ground, but co operation?, not in our lifetime I think, would be nice tho.

    mojo5pro
    Member

    Quick thanks to Pook for taking the time and effort to voice his concerns.

    B.A.Nana
    Member

    Quick thanks to Pook for taking the time and effort to voice his concerns.

    Yes

    Doh, replace ‘anyone’ with ‘everyone’.

    Don’t thing horsey types would be too keen on riding on rocky ‘trail centre-esque’ tracks. Maybe I’m wrong though, I don’t drive horses.

    Senior bloke in RA was interviewed in a mag some years ago, iirc he wasn’t anti bike but he also wasn’t shared access.

    I think CTC do more MTB stuff than may be obvious. Ian Warby does a lot and is specifically MTB. Think he’s been developing a volunteer trail builder training course. Stuff like that should be good. See the article I linked on page 2.

    Sure, it’s roots are as the cycle touring club but I think MTB might be rather like snowboarding is/was to skiing. The combined usage and big increase in user numbers mean there’s really benefits from taking an approach that benefits both.

    Think anyone can apply to be a CTC rep. More riders who have some MTB about them the better it’ll be for all of us in the end.

    B.A.Nana
    Member

    I’m no horsist either, but it’s been claimed on here that they are more than capable off road and could easily out perform most numpties on a bike on techy terrain, only impeded by the ability or willingness of their jockey. I think there is a strong cost v benefit v rider ability analysis for most horse owners which trends them towards flat and easy. Vets and Blacksmiths are bloody expensive!.

    sircharles
    Member

    Fantastic news for me this as it was too lumpy bumpy for me and will be a lot safer for us
    What grade would it be suited to now a nice blue route?

    hora
    Member

    Try riding a horse on anything but flat. You also have to balance/adjust as the horse moves alot.

    Would you ride a horse on Pecketwell? I wouldn’t. It isn’t really safe for a horse IMO.

    Premier Icon mikewsmith
    Subscriber

    [img]http://www.eponashoe.com/images/Tevis2006.jpg[/img]

    Don’t thing horsey types would be too keen on riding on rocky ‘trail centre-esque’ tracks. Maybe I’m wrong though, I don’t drive horses.

    I haven’t seen anything at a trail centre, apart from the biggest drops to steep downhills, that I wouldn’t ride a horse down and I’m not even a good rider. Techy rocky ascents/descents are fun on horses. Gravel is boring. Steep Tarmac is dangerous.

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