Really interesting documentary exploring Qanon and related groups in the US and UK.

Some scary people out there.

Excellent work by the interviewer, seemed to be able to find the right way to approach most of them without scaring them off, but it was clear a lot of them were “vulnerable” to being manipulated and were looking for something to believe in and help them make sense of the world.

Worth a watch

I missed some of it but wow, how on earth did we get here?

There is a sizable minority willing to beleive almost anything it seems and a further few very willing to make money from exploiting them.

I got the feeling there was a lot left on the cutting room floor. The journalist clearly could charm the interviewees and there was plenty for a more in-depth analysis.

There have always been vulnerable people who are prepared to go to extremes such as the Skoptsy cult

For another (humorous) view of those Questionable IQulprits I’d recommend Andrew Callaghan’s interviews with some of them on his Channel 5, er, channel (formerly All Gas No Brakes). His interviewing skills are as peerless as they are hilarious. Subjects seem to feel entirely at ease.

😬

Christ, I could only manage a few minutes of that.

YOu can see the insanity in her face and eyes – truely frightening

It’s the latest iteration of a very old conspiracy theory though isn’t it, people have always turned to this kind of thinking in uncertain times.

The sad part for me is I had genuinely hoped that we as a society were progressing past needing this kind of BS.

looking for something to believe in

I think that is pretty much everyone though isn’t it. Fortunately most of the people I know manage a bit more rationality in their assessments. But even then, I’m not sure a completely rational position is possible.

I missed some of it but wow, how on earth did we get here?

Haven’t we always been here?

If you look at the historical growth of the current main religions, most of that growth has come from someone “teaching” someone else and “oh look, that’s what everyone else is doing”. Direct contact to God wasn’t part of it, nothing was actually presented with proof. Just some rumours about a bush catching fire somewhere sandy one time etc.

Most of the time with these followers of various they appear either vulnerable and/or full of a sense powerlessness and are looking for something that would give them a sense of potential control and/or belonging.

We have the internet now and that’s the difference. In a few minutes people can find like minded people and share information that bolsters their views.
I don’t think the Capitol Hill riots would have happened in the past but they could happen after every election now.

There are so many cults in the world, and so many people who feel so lost that they would feel drawn to these.

America has many that are famous. Jim Jones, Waco etc
South Korea has a lot, at the moment they are driving the Covid surges due to no vaccinations.
Japan has, most famous incident from a cult was the Sarin gas attack.
Rome has a large one.

Basically there are many all over the world, some more damaging than others. The Q crap is just another example, but unfortunately a massively problematic one affecting democracy in a super-power, which makes it very scary for its possible impacts.

We replaced Christianity with this and swapped Harvest Festivals and midnight mass for insurrections and covid denial.

They stat that alarmed me was that nearly 50% of republicans identify with Q!!

They stat that alarmed me was that nearly 50% of republicans identify with Q!!

More than that will go listen to fairy stories in a big lavish building every sunday (and pay to make it even more lavish), so it’s hardly a surprise.

We do seem to find it difficult to tell people when their beliefs are just plain stupid.
We teach some daft things to our kids.
We are told off for telling people religion is a conspiracy.

Not surprising these things continue to flourish.

The section with the exotic dancer lady was pretty poignant but he blew the big interviews way too early, people believing this shit is one thing, politicians feeding and using it is the scary bit, what happens when they lose control of it? How far away we’re we from that in 2020 and how close to the edge are Flynn et al willing to take it?

It’s the latest iteration of a very old conspiracy theory though isn’t it

Yes, it’s just the age old blood libel with a modern twist.

If you look at the historical growth of the current main religions, most of that growth has come from someone “teaching” someone else and “oh look, that’s what everyone else is doing”.

The whole point about conspiracy theorists is that they reject what they are being told, this is where the conspiracy bit comes in.

The current main religions have widespread support from state structures, the very thing that is totally rejected by conspiracy theorists.

I got the feeling there was a lot left on the cutting room floor. The journalist clearly could charm the interviewees and there was plenty for a more in-depth analysis.

I was surprised it was only a one hour show.

Vulnerable people have always been drawn to cults, and conspiracies about secret cabals controlling the world go back centuries.

I did wonder what the legal situation was with regards to the comments about the Obamas, that was completely insane.

Think the stat was 56% of Republicans agreed with something that Qanon said – there were some fairly obvious and innocent looking hooks it wouldn’t be that hard to agree with, but I don’t know how you drill down to the hard-core believers. Pastor Mark was looking very uncomfortable later in that programme, hopefully wondering why he was relying on these nutters for his political future

It did worry me that there must be a section of Qanon supporters being drawn to an “End of Days” scenarios.

The current main religions have widespread support from state structures, the very thing that is totally rejected by conspiracy theorists.

Which is paradoxical, because the QAnon cult is particularly strong and popular in the Evangelical movement in the US, a movement that has had a huge influence in the Republican party since Ronald Regan, and through the Republican domination of congress, has delivered their agenda.

The whole point about conspiracy theorists is that they reject what they are being told, this is where the conspiracy bit comes in.

A bit like a creationist when presented with scientific evidence?.

Which is paradoxical, because the QAnon cult is particularly strong and popular in the Evangelical movement in the US, a movement that has had a huge influence in the Republican party since Ronald Regan, and through the Republican domination of congress, has delivered their agenda.

The fact that they are manipulated is a given. Is anyone surprised that the Tea Party grassroots movement was launched by a couple of billionaires?

The current main religions have widespread support from state structures, the very thing that is totally rejected by conspiracy theorists.

Lack of widespread state support was not a sufficient barrier to the initial growth of Christianity. Anyway, this has all the hall marks of a pedants tangent.

The current main religions have widespread support from state structures, the very thing that is totally rejected by conspiracy theorists.

They are all still believing in nonsense though aren’t they. One sort of nonsense is fine (religion) while all other sorts of nonsense are only for nutters?

All the same to me – gullible, easily led people the world over.

Shame to see this becoming a religion bashing tangent,but I’ll play.

The majority of followers, of pretty much all religions, follow the principles of try and be kind and help others. It’s the minority who have caused all the chaos and destruction that politicised religion has been responsible for.

I’m not seeing the majority of Qanon supporters doing any good for anyone.

I’m not religion bashing tbh, I agree re be kind and help others, merely pointing out that it proves the existence of ‘fertile minds’, that’s all.

The majority of followers, of pretty much all religions, follow the principles of try and be kind and help others. It’s the minority who have caused all the chaos and destruction that politicised religion has been responsible for.

I’m not seeing the majority of Qanon supporters doing any good for anyone.

But religion trains the populous, from children, to act and behave in a proscribed way because you *believe* something to be true despite the absence of any evidence and despite how fabulously improbable the story.

We replaced Christianity with this

Not really, there’s a huge correlation with holding Q beliefs and Evangelical Christianity, many of Q’s most effective communicators have used existing religious channels to reach people.

Bringing it back to QAnon..

If you want to know more about the ins and outs of the start of QAnon on 8Chan and 4Chan forums then I highly recommend this The Hunt for QAnon podcast by Jake Hanrahan. It goes into very detailed analysis of who Q might be, why they started it, and so on.

And on the same topic, Robert Evans of Behind the Bastards, goes into some depth about Nesara on his podcast showing the links to QAnon.

like minded people and share information that bolsters their views

People don’t need to find others that share their views, algorithms do that for them and once started down the rabbit hole the constant drip feed of similar information continues to convince people they were right about their views despite evidence to the contrary

The majority of followers, of pretty much all religions, follow the principles of try and be kind and help others. It’s the minority who have caused all the chaos and destruction that politicised religion has been responsible for.

I’m not seeing the majority of Qanon supporters doing any good for anyone.

So what, they are all still happy to believe in nonsense. If the concept of religion had only come along in the last 20 years and was spread in same way would it be any different or would you see those who swallowed this new religion thing as having ‘issues’?

As I said “One sort of nonsense is fine (religion) while all other sorts of nonsense are only for nutters?” is where the glaring hypocrisy.

As I said “One sort of nonsense is fine (religion) while all other sorts of nonsense are only for nutters?” is where the glaring hypocrisy.

It’s the blanket use of “religion” that is the issue here. I’ve attended various religious events regularly throughout my life, though I’m not a believer, and all I’ve come out of it is a message that hate and intolerance are wrong, and being charitable and kind is good. I don’t even recall the last time I was ever promised “heaven” or threatened with “hell” for my behaviour.

I accept that other religious teachings are more poisonous and dangerous to society, and i would classify those alongside Qanon, but the majority of religious “teaching” is not, and so I don’t think it’s hypocritical to have different views of the two “cults”.

the crossover between fundamentalist Christians and the Q conspiracy might make GK Chesterton turn in his grave sufficiently to want to re-think his “When men choose not to believe in God, they do not thereafter believe in nothing, they then become capable of believing in anything”

It’s the latest iteration of a very old conspiracy theory though isn’t it

Yes, it’s just the age old blood libel with a modern twist.

Exactly. The fact that this new twist was propagated by anonymous internet ‘pranksters’/sociopaths/psychopaths (delete or combine as applicable) is unsurprising. Antisemitism is a huge feature of that subculture. It just needed to tap into talk radio and SM to get a hold in the 21stC

I don’t believe in a ‘Devil’ but the old saying of such a character finding work for idle hands rings true. These ‘anons’ were internet-savvy bullies mostly contained within their own subculture. That was before the ubiquity of social media gave them them the perfect playground in which to tap into the American Idiot.

Democracy is pretty much broken at this point. Hard division, political illiteracy and aggressively-defended idiocy is shockingly prevalent. And we followed. Brexit and Trump and Qanon will always be embarrassed bedfellows even if they refuse to look at each other in the eye during (and after) the deed.

It’s the blanket use of “religion” that is the issue here. I’ve attended various religious events regularly throughout my life, though I’m not a believer, and all I’ve come out of it is a message that hate and intolerance are wrong, and being charitable and kind is good.

This. I was raised an Anglican Christian, have become pretty anti religious in later years – but the main message that came from churches I attended was ‘love thy neighbour, and do unto others as you would have done to you’ etc. I came to think it ridiculous that it had to be tied up with tales of a magic man in the sky who is always watching and how his son who was also him died ‘for our sins’ – but now I start to wonder…

“we live by faith, not by sight” (2 Corinthians 5:7).

“blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed” (John 19:29)

There’s plenty in the bible to support being credulous. The difference is that the QAnon is strong amongst the particular Book of Revelations biased interpretations of Christianity of the Evangelical right in the USA. QAnon is a cult especially designed to appeal to their world view.