OK… directline is looking more reasonable, though still £600-£1000 depending on the car (though this includes my wife as a 2nd driver and is comprehensive…)

Shall have to weigh up all these costs me-thinks…

What if you cause an accident which disables you?

And neither TPFT nor Comp will cover you either.

Car Insurance Groups are from 1 to 20. 1 being the cheapest, 20 being the highest.

Group 12 means that it's going to be more to insure as it's either quicker/more desirable/or some other criteria.

Bigger engines = higher insurance group = higher insurance cost.

So a bit of a summary then (if I'm going down the banger route):

1) look for a car with 12 months MOT
2) 1-2 owners, service history (can this be faked?)
3) Diesel (non-turbo?)
4) Vauxhall, Ford, Peugeot (any others?)

Anything else I'm missing (or got wrong?)

cheers good folk of STW, appreciate your help 🙂

Bigger engines = higher insurance group = higher insurance cost

So that'd be why the 2.5l Volvo is coming in at over a £1000 to insure?

What cars fall into the lowest groups? Is there a list somewhere?

EDIT: I know JFGI (just did, found a useful site, Parkers 😉 )

Fiat Seicento is going to be one of the cheapest.

I always think you can tell a lot about how good a car will be by judging the last owners.

I've bought a £400 Mk2 Golf, ran it for a year without any issues and sold it for £380 just before the MOT. I then bought a Mk3 TDI Golf for £1100 ran it for 3 years with hardly any cost and then got shot for around £500 (probably could of got more but wanted a quick sale).

Both of which had respectible owners with kids who obviously fixed anything and everything when it needed doing.

I wouldn't rule out any make. Honda/Toyota/VW/Volvo…even some old french Peugeots and Citroens can on forever…judge the car on it's merits and owners, not the marque.

ok… insurance is starting to make more sense, I need to be looking for something in group 1-6 to get a decent deal right? No point looking at a big-engined or turbo charged petrol beasty just now 😆

What cars fall into the lowest groups?

1.0l, 1.1l or 1.2l small cars like the Seicento mentioned above and base spec Micra's and things.

Astra's/Golfs/Focus' I guess are going to be around groups 5-8 unless you get the top spec.

Just so you know, even the same model of car will have multiple different insurance group catagories depending on it's specification.

I think we'd like an estate, just to make things easier with throwing bikes in the back etc… but I guess with just the 2 of us a hatchback would do as well, can always fold the seats down…

I was warned off buying an old Volvo because spares are very expensive and scarce.

Used to do Bangernomics, and it can be frustrating how long some old cars lasted (when I was getting fed up with them).

Nissan Primera and Ford Mondeo both give a lot of car for very little money. The old wedge shaped Rover 200 series was amazingly reliable for an English car.

They're all relatively nice to drive as well.

If insurance group is a consideration, the old Fiesta 1.25 Zetec could be worth a look. Has a great engine and drives nice.

You'll just need to get a bike rack.

Insurance group 1 cars:
http://www.parkers.co.uk/insurance/Groups/by-group.aspx?ig=1

Change the ig=1 to ig=X for insurance group X.

While it's certainly nice to have an extate, I managed for years with an old pegueot 205 hatchback, carrying bikes AND camping gear AND kite gear.

what about old cars? like 60's mini or something? do they have a special insurance grouping (can't seem to find them on the list?)

You can get classic car insurance on a range of cars 10years or older. Most will mean you can only do <5000 miles per year.

Google classic car insurance…a friend has used these in the past (on a Vauxhall Cavalier of all things)

http://www.lancasterinsurance.co.uk/

old wedge shaped Rover 200 series was amazingly reliable for an English car.

that's cos they were honda civics in disguise.

pug 205 – last forever. fix with a hammer and a spanner generally.
pug 306 – low insurance, non turbo diesel or petrol as above, and good economy from the petrols.

jap stuff tends to be higher insurance as traditionally higher cost to repair, which isnt taken into account for third party only…

ford focus – ford started to build decent cars with the focus. 1.4 & 1.6 petrol cheap to insure & reliable. easy & cheap to fix.

ford mondeo – good to drive, built very solidly for mega miles. again, petrol reliable but insurance is higher than the others above.

yep, classic car insurance, you'll have to phone a broker though (like going on money supermarket, but you get to speek to a real person).

With classic cars there's 2 options……….

Buy a banger: it will fall apart before the next MOT and you can either spend more than its value repairing it, flog it on as a project/spares to someone for £300, or if you have a garrage split it (£50 for a working alternator, £100 for a sub frame, £20 for headlamps, it all adds up, even if its only worth £300, and needs £3000 spending to get it on the road, it'll be worth a fortune in spare parts, my midget is worth £4k ish as a car, chassis and body alone is worth £7k!!!). Either that or buy a good one, but they cost as much as a new car, and any savings in depreciation will be lost in repairs as your in london therefore dont have a garrage to do them yourself, and by keeping it outside you condeming it to rust within a year.

For the amount of miles you will do, you should be able to take a few quid off the insurance for only doing say 3000 per year. Also, can you put someone else on the insurance as a named driver eg much older than you, probably female who has loads of no claims discount as this will also reduce the premium.

I used to spend apx £400 per month on cars, but 2 years ago bought a Pug 206 for about £1300. I was unfortunate that it just had to have apx £400 worth of work on it, but it now has another 12 months MOT and even if it lasts another year and would have cost £2000 for purchase and repairs, it will still have been a cheap car at less than £700 per year.

that's cos they were honda civics in disguise.

I think the Honda version was called the "Concerto".

Mine had the 1.4 Rover engine though, and the mechanic told me they lasted better tham the 1.6 Honda engine.

I'm on my second "bubble" shape rover 200 diesel – first one lasted to 217K miles before it was crashed into, my 2nd one is currently on 136K miles.

Same applies to them as it does the 306, although I would be looking at turbos tbh, get the versions without an intercooler and it's all controlled mechanically and is bombproof. Insurance is a little higher because it's a 2liter, but it's not amazingly powerful, back is plenty big enough for a bike with the rear seats down.

Will cost you £5-800 for a decent one.

Classic is the way to go, that doesnt mean you have to get something ancient, as mentioned Classic starts at 10 or 15 years. Ive got Fully Comp with european cover for me and my wife for 100 squid on a camper. Its limited to 5K miles per year but that speedo cable is really dodgy!

Did you say you lived in London, if so check that your car (especially if its an old Diesel)is OK within the Low Emission zone thing.
If its a banger your after check out your local breakers and see what kind of cars are about for spare parts, fords are plentiful for example, loads of spares then you dont have to buy new bits. My brother in laws Saab engine went pop and even for a snotter of an engine from the breakers was over a grand, however a mate got a Diesel engine fitted for his 205 Peugot for 250 quid all in.
Hope that helps

b r – Member

"What if you cause an accident which disables you?"

And neither TPFT nor Comp will cover you either.

Comprehensive cover covers you for personal injury as well.

To the OP – as you happy to drive round in a worn out car? I personally am not.

To the OP – as you happy to drive round in a worn out car? I personally am not

Worn out is OK, as long as it's mechanically sound… it'll be treated roughly anyhow (bikes and muddy stuff thrown in the back etc), so not that fussed on cosmetics…

Any camper van for £7k is going to be an old heap of crap. A car for that sum would be very decent indeed.

Campervans are ludicrously over-valued.

As for bangers – crash safety is an issue for me.

pshycle…

I have a great little banger coming up for grabs soonish.

Its about as cheap to run as possible, its a Daewoo Matiz, 2000, 900cc or pure pulsating power, back seats fold easily to accept a couple of bikes, clean and presentable, tax and MOT, 4 new tyres, its been 100% reliable since I bought it in October £700. only selling as my pal has a slightly better old banger coming up soon.

My advice if your thinking of pushing up to 7k for something decent is buy new, can get a new Fiat Panda for that money, 55-65mpg and £35 a year road tax.

My advice if your thinking of pushing up to 7k for something decent is buy new

Never buy new. It's a waste of money. If you want new, buy one year old and it'll be indistinguisable in all practical ways from a new car but be thousands cheaper.

mmmm, thats rubbish if you can get a brand new car for 7k with the full warranty for 3 years, then its a no brainer after your 3 years it will still have a value of about 50% so it would have cost you £1116 in depreciation per year, you would need a lot of luck to run a banger for 3 years for the same price.

I do however agree if you could get an ex demo or something with a further reduction your onto a definate winner.

If your looking at 20k mid size motors, yes what your saying is true but at 7k new, its an entirely differnt ball game.

aaargh…. I don't know what to do 🙁 it's doing my head in a little…

I want a car to get a bit more freedom and flexibility in my life, at the moment if I want to go for a ride (offroad) I have to get kitted up at home, ride to Waterloo and then get the train to Dorking, all in around 2hrs each way; and yes, I know it could well take the same length of time in a car! the difference is that once I've finished my ride I can strip off the muddy gear, get changed, throw the bike in the back and drive home all nice and warm 🙂 Plus if I get a bikewasher thingo, I'd be able to clean my bike whilst still at the trail, bonus 🙂

We can afford a new car, no worries, should qualify for 0% APR with a deposit, but realistically an older vehicle will suit us fine, after all it's going to get dirty quickly with all this MTB lark 😆

Here are my sums so far:

Banger: £1000
Insurance: up to £800pa (!!) to start with (2 people, comprehensive inc hire car)
MOT: ?
Servicing/Maintenance: £500pa?
Parking: £90 annual permit
Tax: £200?
Anything else?:

So budget £2500 in the first year = £48 per week, used on average 1-2 days a week, still cheaper than a hire car perhaps??

I rekon your sums are about right, its all about having a bit of luck with £1000 cars, the MOT cost will fit inside of your servicing & maint costs I think its about £35 these days. Road tax can be down to £125 for a small car.

But your 2nd year with it will be down to £30 a week for year 2 if your banger is a good one.

Now you need luck!! or my Matiz. 😉

Fuel?
Breakdown cover 🙂

couldashouldawoulda – Member
An MOT only covers safety (brakes, tyres, windscreen kinda stuff) and emissions. It wont tell you that the engine is about to die of the gearbox is knackered or the battery is dead or the radiator is leaking etc etc.

The MOT might highlight a badly maintained diesel engine on the smoke test though, however they make you sign a disclaimer for damage caused by the emissions test don't they?

tinsy – MOT is 45-60 depending on where you go.

missingfrontallobe – not signed, but they ask if you've done the belts etc.

want a car to get a bit more freedom and flexibility in my life, at the moment if I want to go for a ride (offroad) I have to get kitted up at home, ride to Waterloo and then get the train to Dorking, all in around 2hrs each way

First mistake:
Living in London

If you can afford a new car, and don't care about 'image' – look at a Kia and/or Hyundai (same company) – maybe ex-demo/6 month old – still have all the warrenties, but cheap motoring for the 6-7 years.

First mistake: Living in London

True enough… but we have a good deal on a flat here (£700 per month for our own place!) and we both have OK jobs (wife much better paid than mine), so this is where we'll stay for now. I'd love to move up North, but that depends entirely on the other half getting a job she wants…

br is right on the money.. similar to the Fiat Panda idea of mine but much longer warranty.

but I will work on the Fiat cos its where my money would go.

7k brand new. assume running for 3 years.

approx 50% depreciation

So yearly

£1116 depreciation
£300 servicing, being generous I rekon.
£35 road tax
= £1450 Thats it, thats all it should cost per year .

£27.90 a week (need to add your insurance of course)

and it will be loads better on fuel than pretty much any banger.

Hmmm… how about this 1992 VW Polo 1.3L for £295 with 12 months MOT? Pretty basic car, should be reliable?

Its all about luck… thats 8 years older than my Matiz, surely you can do better than that, way better to spend the 1k your on about in my opinion, and get something 10 years newer.

tinsy – you forgot insurance. but yeah, it works out a bit better still. probably.

bangornomics. Get something cheap to insure, hopefully simple (diesel (not turbo'ed) or most petrol cars) and cheap to repair (ford etc..). Don't be bothered by badge (not german or sort after make) and try to get something newer and lower mileage.

I'd buy private from someone who has looked after there car (service history if possible and long ownership). Remember "nice people sell nice cars".

Ask around at work. Anyones grandma selling their car?

Still reckon in London you are better off with streetcar and a portable washer 😀