^but he’s (foootflaps image) wearing a suit as a douchy fashion statement, that’s the kinda image you’d want to avoid in an interview.

I’m wanting to believe you, but I’m thinking that the parameters are to blurred hitherto and thusly not clarifying my vision?
I still don’t know what business relax is either. 😕

Page 2 of at least 4 I reckon… the problem with casual dress codes (business casual and smart casual) is nobody really knows that they are. “Western Dress Code” broadly describes formal dress codes that are pretty changeless – Cocktail Dress, Morning Dress, White Tie are all pretty changeless. ‘Casual’ choices are a bit more subject to fashion and the social or business circles you move in so it means something different to everyone

The person specifying Business Casual in the OP will know exactly what he/she thinks it means. The best idea of what they actually mean though would be what they and their colleagues are actually wearing.

CaptainFlashheart – a **** try hard

I have nothing to add…

🙂

He will need a suit over the next few years take him shopping for one. Good shirt and trousers, M&S are very good on price for this stuff. Good shoes too. Also a suit means you have somewhere to put your shades.

Last year’s work awards dinner was “Black tie” and everyone who had one wore their dinner jacket/long dress as appropriate. That left those who did not have the requisite worried about appearing out of step. I gave it a miss.

Thankfully, some common sense broke out as this year the dress code was “smart casual, (no jeans)”. I was due to go but ducked out at the last minute as someone had to mind the shop. Now seen the photos and those in a position of authority seem to have worn dinner jacket/long dress as appropriate. At least I now understand why they look appalled at my usual chinos/polo shirt get up.

Not sure what to go for if it’s smart casual again next year – a) Top hat white tie and tails, b) T-shirt, board shorts, c) give it a miss again.

Hankering towards (c)

Suit. M&S. defo not from Asda. Nothing shiny.

Better to feel over than under dressed if he gets there and other people have a different view on ‘business casual’.

If it’s IT then standard collared shirt and decent trousers with shoes. Think the kind of outfit where you quickly grab a spare tie out of the drawer to look smart if someone important turns up.

Jacket I’d not normally bother with these days, getting to be more business area specific. Council offices not normally necessary, if I was visiting a banking or legal customer then the suit comes out. Although if it’s this time of year and it’s cold then a proper jacket or coat rather than some scruffy coat is preferable.

Not, as one rather large gentleman I’ve worked with thinks, brown cords, denim shirt and linen jacket that creases as soon as it moves.

Are they interviewing him or just making assumptions on what he wears on one occasion as to what he is actually like? If they are that narrow minded i wouldn’t want to work there.

Dark trousers, plain shirt with shoes. Go neutral & sell your personality not an image you can’t/won’t want to keep up

Every time I see one of these “oh dear god no – smart casual!” threads, I realise all that pain and hardship of transitioning was worth it. 😆

Rachel

Are they interviewing him or just making assumptions on what he wears on one occasion as to what he is actually like

Sadly, it’s an interview and appearance will play a part in the decision making process.

I was thinking about this thread this morning as I sat in an office with people in various states of “business” attire. I maintain my position that, for an interview, I would wear a nicely cut suit, clean and polished shoes and an open neck shirt. I suspect when he starts he’ll ditch the jacket and likely wear chino’s or smart trousers with a shirt. But when you interview you should generally dress up a touch.

Related, I am firmly of the believe that you should never wear a short sleeved short in any kind of formal setting and shouldn’t wear a tie without a jacket. So a suit, shirt and no tie is fine, trousers, shirt, tie and no jacket doesn’t look good at all.

I realise all that pain and hardship of transitioning was worth it

Bit of a tall order to do that in the time available before Bruneep Jr’s interview! But if he’s going to M&S anyway maybe just pick up a frock and two half grapefruits. 🙂

Are they interviewing him or just making assumptions on what he wears on one occasion as to what he is actually like? If they are that narrow minded i wouldn’t want to work there.

Dark trousers, plain shirt with shoes. Go neutral & sell your personality not an image you can’t/won’t want to keep up
Right or wrong the decision is said to be made within the first seconds of you walking into the interview. Very few people and environments will allow the personality to overpower the first impression. Not saying it can’t, just asking why you’d make it harder for yourself.

Right or wrong the decision is said to be made within the first seconds of you walking into the interview. Very few people and environments will allow the personality to overpower the first impression. Not saying it can’t, just asking why you’d make it harder for yourself.

Spot on. You won’t get the job in the first 30 seconds of the interview but you can certainly loose it.

If I could direct yourself to the image that was posted by footflaps, the image of the one that is wearing the suit is clearly defined as being suited in a business informal fashion, vis a vis not formal. This is the underlying basis of myself being confused.

Not “business informal”, but “business/informal” i.e. business wear in a work context or “informal” (c.f. formal i.e. black tie) in a social context.

The secret of successful interview dressing is to slightly overdress. Nobody likes a Chris Eubank and nobody would employ a comic book guy.

M&S currently have very netural and well executed Chinos for £20 – can’t go wrong. Also £30 for water repellent ones which is handy in wet weather.

Appreciate this is IT, so will be different from the Bank sector (where I work), but my 2p:

Business casual I’d wear suit type trousers, with a very decent long sleeve shirt and formal leather shoes. Would not count business casual as needing a tie. TM Lewin have got some offers on there – get a proper work type shirt in slim fit – they will measure for both collar size and arm length and he’ll look smart (I’d pick a shirt with a double cuff for cufflinks). Blue is classed as a business colour I’m a lot of people’s eyes and looks better than white without a tie (just imo).

For me, chinos fall into smart casual. Which in banking is generally not jeans. Never heard of business relax, but would think smart jeans would be OK for that, but still with shoes and a more casual shirt.

If only you’d been there to advise these chaps – clearly they went to the wrong sort of school:

If only you’d been there to advise these chaps – clearly they went to the wrong sort of school:

They’re in the “office” everyone takes there suit jacket off when at work. But I guarantee you that they have a jacket out of shot that they will put on when they leave. What they’re not doing is wearing “smart” trousers with a shirt and tie, they’re wearing a suit and have taken their jackets off. There is a subtle and key difference.

TM Lewin have got some offers on there

Lewin seem to clearance a lot of stuff on Amazon. The fact they do their business shirts in different arm lengths as well as belly cuts is really useful. Also they do a choice of fabrics like poplin or twill and empire something or other that I really like but cannot remember the name of.

Also, ‘extra slim’ really isn’t – they fit me best and I am in no way ‘extra slim’!

Are they interviewing him or just making assumptions on what he wears on one occasion as to what he is actually like? If they are that narrow minded i wouldn’t want to work there.

Dark trousers, plain shirt with shoes. Go neutral & sell your personality not an image you can’t/won’t want to keep up
In the current climate job hunters can’t be that fussy, maybe with a loaded CV and head hunters everywhere interviewing in your y fronts might work.

Every time I see one of these “oh dear god no – smart casual!” threads, I realise all that pain and hardship of transitioning was worth it.

It mostly makes me despair that men feel the need to act out so much that they will piss a good opportunity up the wall.
There comes a time where you will expect to go to a number of interviews, weddings and funerals. Buy a suit, wear it well and then let the personality shine from that. Learn to shine shoes, put the trainers away for a bit and get over yourselves.

A mate summed it up, if a contractor/consultant turned up to his government office in jeans and a t-shirt he would tell them to get out and come back properly dressed. If they turned up in a suit he would let them know it was fine to be semi casual the next day. It’s about how you present yourself that really counts. Showing you respect the environment you are entering counts for a lot.

There comes a time where you will expect to go to a number of interviews, weddings and funerals. Buy a suit, wear it well and then let the personality shine from that.

He’s been advised to go “business casual”, which is not a suit. And if he can’t follow that kind of simple instruction there’s no way I’d hire him!

Mattyfez’s picture is what I see all the time in IT (and I work for a bank). Trousers (ironed, & not jeans), a long sleeved shirt, and (I assume) some leather shoes. Perfect for a 20yr old going to an interview for a starting position. Obviously make sure he’s shaved, showered, and has brushed his hair. Earrings out.

It’s about how you present yourself that really counts.

It really isn’t. How I look means nothing if my code is shite. Likewise, if my code is good, it matters not how I look. Except in some people’s minds.

Related, I am firmly of the believe that you should never wear a short sleeved short in any kind of formal setting and shouldn’t wear a tie without a jacket. So a suit, shirt and no tie is fine, trousers, shirt, tie and no jacket doesn’t look good at all.

So you’d arrive at work in a suit/tie then not take off your jacket when you sit down?

How I look means nothing if my code is shite.

True, you don’t meet clients? I need to look professional initially but once settled in at a client site I lower my standards to fit in with them – rarely work anywhere where suit/tie is needed these days.

I had an interview recently, was told it was more an informal chat so went smart casual and think that was the best thing to do.

Blimey some of you over complicate things to the op it is: smart shoes, trousers and shirt. Easy.

He’s been advised to go “business casual”, which is not a suit. And if he can’t follow that kind of simple instruction there’s no way I’d hire him!

Its a simple-to-give instruction but its not a clear one – hence the discussion. Its an internship and by definition is a post for people who are inexperienced in work generally and in your work culture specifically. It would take a sentence on the recruiters behalf to make the request clear. If a recruiter can’t give clear instructions then the people they don’t hire are the lucky ones 😆

dragon +1

Dress is not going to clinch the job.

+1 more – I’m assuming those saying just turn up in a suit don’t work in IT. If it’s anything like most of the places I’ve been nobody else will be wearing one, including the people interviewing you. The description of business casual we seem to have successfully arrived at (and it really wasn’t that hard apart from for those who think suit for everything) is exactly what I’ve always worn for work, including when visiting other companies if I was just doing a techie role rather than meeting management types.

Neither will they be making instant judgements on how people are dressed – I’ve sat on the other side of interviews, and that wasn’t something which ever came up, IIRC the worst person we interviewed was dapper in a suit and didn’t get an offer, the best was scruffy and I’d have offered him a job there and then.

…and this is what he’s to be wearing. Having googled the company, the workers and ceo are certainly not “business casual” he’ll be way overdressed in a Trouser/shirt but if that’s what they want that’s what they will get for his interview/assessment day.

The definition of ‘smart’ can vary a lot though dragon, that’s the issue.

Come on pretty much everyone knows that in the UK for men smart starts at shoes, trousers and shirt. For women then anything seems to go.

Any trousers?

Are the chinos smart enough, or do I need suit trousers? Do the ‘casual’ shirts from Lewins count as smart, even though they are labelled casual?

It’s not simple, as the length of this thread shows.

Jesus what 20 year old would even consider wearing chinos to an interview? And as for casual shirt then no clearly, that’s why they sell formal ones 🙄 If your shirt doesn’t have a collar size then it is only suitable for dress down fridays.

I thought we’d all agreed that no tie is required – in which case why is collar size important? In any case we do appear to be talking about a dress code which is no more smart than dress down Friday is at any place stuffy enough to feel the need for one of those.

And as for casual shirt then no clearly, that’s why they sell formal ones

Can you tell the difference? Really?

And I’d call to your attention that you just said ‘shirt’ and ‘trousers’ at first. So you’re qualifying it now 🙂

Jesus what 20 year old would even consider wearing chinos to an interview?

Show us some links then to trousers that aren’t from a suit, aren’t chinos but are still smart and fashionable enough for a 20 year old.

I showed this thread to my cat Meatball.
She says “Miaow”, but then she always looks fabulous

FFS everyone. Buy the kid a nice suit, he’ll use it over the coming years and everyone looks good in a well fitted suit. Next, but him a well fitted shirt, perhaps plain blue, perhaps with a light pastel stripe, maybe even white, but not a shirt that look like he’s forgotten his tie. Then either polish his shoes or buy him some of those too.

He’ll be better dressed than most of the office but that is fine for an interview. More importantly, if done well, he’ll feel awesome, and if he feels good he’ll likely interview well.

And no, I haven’t worked in IT but I currently work in a role where a large part of my job is preparing people for interviews, often in IT.

A suit? Despite the dress code specifically not being that?

There are plenty on here who I’d not employ simply because of their ability of being wrong in the face of right.
Blue shirt? For the love of god! When we aspire to be blue collar, it’s a bad day.
For the sake of a couple of hundred quid, get the lad a suit, white shirt and some decent shoes. If they knock him back for that, ask yourselkf whether you want him to work with a group of scruffy, middle aged hipster wannabes trying to relive their long lost youth. I wouldn’t.

A suit? Despite the dress code specifically not being that?

Where does it say not to wear a suit? The OP stated “business casual”, given we’re 3 page in I think it’s safe to say we’ve not yet established what that is. But, we know it’s an interview and there is no harm is siding on the formal side for an interview.

Blue shirt? For the love of god! When we aspire to be blue collar, it’s a bad day.

I agree to a point, a good, well fitted white shirt will look better. But it’s got to be a good shirt, it’s got to fit well and it’s got to be white and not cream or slightly grey. I agree white is better in an ideal world, but after years of giving advice to IT interviewees I’d argue blue is safer.