• This topic has 65 replies, 25 voices, and was last updated 10 years ago by mopc.
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  • Burgtec shock bushings or Works Components headset on Canyon Nerve AM
  • mattjevans
    Free Member

    Has anyone tried either of the above on a Canyon Nerve AM and if so how did it work out?

    Particularly on the Burgtech bushings, any issues on shock clearance or suspension performance?

    continuity
    Free Member

    I’d be more inclined towards a headset because then you don’t affect the rear suspension design. Offset shock bushings lower the bb, which could alter squat curves.

    mintimperial
    Full Member

    The Nerve AM (the 2011 one, at least) has an integrated lower bearing on the headset so you can’t buy a stock angle-adjust headset to fit it to the best of my knowledge. I emailed Works about the possibility of getting a custom one made but received no reply, must chase that…

    I know of one chap on here who had a special adapter machined up to fit a standard 1.5 degree Works headset into a Nerve AM, he had it made to fit a 1 1/8″ steerer fork but you could probably do the same with a taper fork, I think the lower race is probably big enough. Having said that he said he only rode it for a short while, so I don’t know how successful a modification that really was.

    mattjevans
    Free Member

    thanks greebie – but still whether burgtec or ebay cheaper bushings, the question remains has anyone tried them and how did it go

    continuity hit it on the head, changing the shock length will change things (it is after all the point), the query is does it materially impact the rear suspension performance on this design?

    mint imperial I emailed Works as well, and also don’t have a reply yet.

    mintimperial
    Full Member

    mint imperial I emailed Works as well, and also don’t have a reply yet.

    That’s good to know, it’s not just me then. 🙂

    mattjevans
    Free Member

    though I just noticed at the bottom of their home page that they had a break in and apologising they might take a while to reply

    tizzzzle
    Free Member

    I’ve been thinking about slackening my nerve am 2012 too. Reckon offset bushings are the way to go – will measure tomorrow and send off for some. Results to follow…

    kimbers
    Full Member

    mattjevans – Member
    changing the shock length will change things

    dont think its changing the length, rather the position of the shock in the frame

    i just got the cheap bushings from ebay polish guy, seem good but not ridden in anger yet

    Hadge
    Free Member

    Burgtec off-set bushes are titanium so will be more expensive anyway.

    Northwind
    Full Member

    kimbers – Member

    dont think its changing the length, rather the position of the shock in the frame

    It reduces the eye-to-eye length of the shock (which is the length that matters)

    mattjevans
    Free Member

    tizzzzle, please let me know how you go then. cheers

    mase
    Full Member

    Hi All

    Seems to be a theme here. I emailed Workscomponents also…..no reply, but I have to say I am not hopeful.

    So, that leaves the shock mounts. The BB is already fairly low, but could suffer another 5-10mm I guess. The issue is whether it would cause the frame stay bridge to clash with the seat tube.Tizzzle…..get that thing measured and let us all know!

    Cheers

    Hob-Nob
    Free Member

    It reduces the eye-to-eye length of the shock (which is the length that matters)

    No it doesn’t. It doesn’t affect the shock’s size at all.

    As someone else said, it changes the position of the shock in the frame.

    tpbiker
    Free Member

    My mate wanted to do this with his Nerve. He did get a reply from Works, informing him they couldn’t provide the appropriate part.

    mase
    Full Member

    Hob Nob

    Agreed ,it doesn’t effect the actual shock size, but it does bring the mounting points closer to effectively shortening it. So, like using a shorter shock but with the same travel.

    So….and this requires some thought…..does that then mean on full compression at maximum travel, that the seat stay bridge is closer to the seat tube? After all, the shock might be for the sake of argument 10mm shorter,meaning the bike is already sitting into its travel by whatever amount that would equate to, but then it still has the full and original length of the shock to use.

    I can’t get my head round it, but I am sure someone can give a definitive answer.

    Scapegoat
    Full Member

    I bought a Nerve frame off Fivespot of this forum in March. At the time he had a Workscomponents slack set he was selling, complete with bottom cup for the oversized Canyon head tube. He appeared to know his onions. That slack set added about 1.5 degrees to the angle. might well be worth getting in touch with him. What is it about the Nerve geometry people don’t like? Straight off a Cube hard tail it feels pretty planted to me!

    Hob-Nob
    Free Member

    Agreed ,it doesn’t effect the actual shock size, but it does bring the mounting points closer to effectively shortening it. So, like using a shorter shock but with the same travel.

    No it doesn’t bring the mounting points closer – they are the same, just in a different place! The second part of your analogy is right.

    You’re partly right. Because the shock is sitting in a different position, it is in effect in part of the bikes suspension travel phase, which due to the bushes now has a later start point, and a later finishing point.

    Your second point is correct about the seat stay bridge is correct, because that now moves further than originally intended you should cycle the shock to check if there is any contact at full travel. Because (for arguements sake lets use 10mm difference) the suspension action now starts 10mm further into it’s travel than the manufacturer intended, it now also ends 10mm further than intended. Therefore there may be a tolerance issue at that point.

    As a result of that, the offset bushes can cause some less than positive side effects in that as the bike is effectively now sat in it’s normal suspension curve before the rider is sitting on it. Some manufacturers bikes are designed so that the suspension works in different ways at different points of its curve – you may find that now sagged, you are beyond an ‘engineered’ natural pedal platform on the curve & now the bike pedals like a dog.

    It’s a bit of trial and error, but at £20, it’s not the end of the world if it doesn’t work. The headset is a better option IMO as it just effects geometry, rather than messing with the suspension curves.

    Worth using the search, there was a big post on here about them a couple of months ago & people trying to understand how they work.

    slowrider
    Free Member

    What Mase is saying hob nob, is that the shock mount on the front end and trhe shock mount on the swingarm are now closer together. which is obviously true.

    another thing to consider is how both options affect the rest of your geometry; angle headsets drop the bb slightly and steepen the seat angle whilst slackening the head angle, whereas offset bushing drop the bb and slacken the seat angle whilst slackening the head angle.

    decisions, decisions!

    mase
    Full Member

    Scapegoat

    I don’t think there is anything particularly wrong with the NErve AM geometry.I have only had mine 2 days and whilst it is not as slack as the Whyte I had stolen, it is awesome! I just want to know the option for future ‘tinkering’.

    Hob Nob and SLowrider, you have basically answered my question regarding the possible clash. Trial and error it is.

    Northwind
    Full Member

    Hob Nob – Member

    No it doesn’t. It doesn’t affect the shock’s size at all.

    Nonsense 😕 The eye to eye length is reduced. The shock is physically the same size but that doesn’t matter in the slightest, what matters is the distance between the bolts.

    Hob-Nob
    Free Member

    Nonsense The eye to eye length is reduced. The shock is physically the same size but that doesn’t matter in the slightest, what matters is the distance between the bolts.

    You can’t change the i2i of a shock, without changing the physical size of it, clearly.

    The distance between the bolts doesn’t change, it just changes the point of where the shock bolts onto the frame.

    The end result is the same as running a slightly shorter shock, with the same stroke length.

    I think you’re getting “effective & actual” mixed up.

    bren2709
    Full Member

    You can change the i2i of the shock mounting hardware with offset bushings, either increasing or reducing depending on what orientation you have the bushings.
    The idea was for a cheaper option for slackening the head angle rather than the expense of an angle set.

    The distance between the bolts does change due to the offset in the bushings.

    goodgrief
    Free Member

    my mate has used these guys to good effect.
    http://www.offsetbushings.com/

    hobnob, the eye-to-eye measurement is taken from the centre of each bolt hole. fitting an off-set bush will change the position of the bolt hole so changes the measurement, both fully extended and compressed by the same amount.

    mcgoo
    Free Member

    With offset bushings you are effectively running more sag without sacrificing travel. I don’t see why this is so hard to comprehend…

    mase
    Full Member

    Hob Nob, the only way these things can work is by shortening the e2e measurement which give the same effect as a shorter shock would, but without reducing travel.

    My only concern is how much the BB will drop…..any ideas? And the possbility of the seat stay bridge hitting the frame.

    Northwind
    Full Member

    Hobnob, no offence chap but you obviously don’t understand how these work. They reduce the eye-to-eye (and it’s the only way they could work) Just take a look at the parts to see how- the bolts are offset in the bushings.

    Mase- you can test for interference by letting all the air out of the shock and (gently) sitting on the bike to fully compress it. Then, let the shock up a couple of mm to get an idea of how far the bridge moves. It’s not an exact science but it’ll give you a better indication.

    mase
    Full Member

    Northwind….just done it. When fully compressed there’e about 10mm clearance. I think it will be tight, but for £10 it is worth the experiment.

    mattjevans
    Free Member

    Mase, did u end up trying this and how was it if so?

    mattjevans
    Free Member

    As an update in case anyone else is looking at this, on a Canyon Nerve Am the Burgtec bushings work perfectly

    tizzzzle
    Free Member

    Cool. Just ordered the 7002 kit from Burgtec for my Nerve AM 2012.
    How much did you lose on the head angle degree wise?

    chris_db
    Free Member

    Just a quick one – how did you confirm the Burgtec 7002 set is the correct one for a Nerve AM please?

    tizzzzle
    Free Member

    By taking the shock off the frame and measuring the bits. Simples

    mrelectric
    Full Member

    Just reviving this thread re my Nerve AM 2011. From Works Components
    “As your bike uses a fully integrated lower cup we do not currently have an option to suit..
    “Your frame is designed to allow a bearing to drop into the frame – because of this tolerances are much more relaxed than a frame designed with headcups in mind. We could make a cup that would fit but could not cant guarantee fitment accross the range of integrated frames with different manufacturers.

    If we could get an informal list of interested people we would be happy to make a lower cup to suit your frame, but we would need more than 5 or so people interested.”

    Any one else up for this?

    David

    Northwind
    Full Member

    Well, not specifically for your Nerve but if they could do me one for my Camber (fully integrated top and bottom) I’d be very interested.

    euans2
    Free Member

    mrelectric… Thats something I could be interested in for my Nerve AM

    tizzzzle
    Free Member

    If anyone is still wanting to slacken their Nerve AM I can confirm that the Burgtec offset bushing kit 7002 fits and works perfectly. Very easy to fit and creates a noticeably slacker bike.

    http://www.burgtec.co.uk/products/offset-shock-hardware/burgtec-titanium-offset-shock-hardware/

    You’ll want kit 7002 (22.0mm x 8.1mm at both ends)

    With them fitted: (forgot to take a ‘before’ photo so this is a bit pointless…)

    agh100
    Free Member

    mrelectric…
    I would also be interested in slackening the head angle a little on my Nerve AM 9.0x.
    would the part from “Works Components” work in the same sort of way as a Canecreek angleset?

    tizzzzle..
    How much do the offset bushings slacken the head angle by? I’ve understnad offset bushings can lower the BB and have other effects on the handling of the bike, have you noticed any?

    thanks

    xiphon
    Free Member

    With offset bushings, the centre-to-centre of the bored mount hole (traditionally in the dead centre of the eyelet) is closer together.

    So the i2i length of the mounting holes does change…

    mintimperial
    Full Member

    mrelectric, I have a 2011 Nerve AM and would be very very interested indeed in chipping in for a small run batch from Works, drop me a line if you go for this, my email address is my username at gmail.com.

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