Unfortunately you can’t separate the politics from the conversation. If there were Conservative voters in Port Talbot would the current government let an entire town turn into a sink hole?

Let’s see what they do. But if I see them do nothing like they did for Redcar. Like they are doing for the oil & gas industry in Aberdeen. Then **** ’em! The heartless douchebags.

(By the way – I voted Tory at the last election)

Tho they did renationalise the loss making Network Rail last year on the quiet, to make sure all the privatised rail complaints shareholders were happy

It was just reclassication, the “nationalization” took place under Labour but as Brown did not want the debt to be included in the Government Borrowing Requirement, it was done through an artificial structure to keep it off balance sheet, in 2013 the ONS decided to recognize the reality.

This sums up what the government will do, or not do, perfectly

The flaw here is for an entire town and community to have not spotted that the ship has sailed and to diversify, not depend on one industry. Just as with the mining industry.

Things could be saved though if you vote Corbyn. Good old socialism will reopen the mines, the steel plants and so on, and everyone in the country will be funding to keep these places open and keep people in jobs, even if they never sell anything they produce. Or maybe he goes further and insists we don’t deal with these capitalist outsiders and everything we build in the country is made from our own products. May as well go full communist while he’s at it.

😛

Other option is employ them all in building trail centres up the valleys 😀 . Plenty of EU grants it seems for funding this kind of stuff, especially to the Welsh for some reason. Unless we vote to leave.

Why all about Wales ? The Longs Uk section of TATA steel has been up for sale for over a year now. It’s took hundreds of job cut as well and will devastate the areas around if closed. Longs makes a wider range of products from the beams used to build, the rails that trains go on to with to the wire that goes in tyres. There is money to be made in steel in this country (oh and Hayange in France which is also part of longs). It just needs to be specialised in the product and give value added service (Tata in house development team invented a product called by-steel bomb proof building sections) .
By like the two mills in Scotland (Clyebridge and Dalzell) the government need to step in and assist in helping responsible companies buy these plants.

At this present time it looks like Graybull will be buying Longs by the end of this month.

They don’t need patronizing bollocks likes this,

Can see how it might be viewed as patronizing , but having lived through a quarter of a century of the deprivation caused by what happens when successive governments abandon the people whose votes were either never an option or utterly taken for granted, my view is perhaps slightly skewed.

Is it bollocks? I can assure you it’s not. That’s definitely what the largest brownfield site in Europe looked like for most of the last 20 odd years. I don’t imagine that Port Talbot will look any different for the next 20.

Except for the sea views. Which is nice.

The only hope is that somehow – somebody wants to buy the company.
And that will mean massive restructuring. At the moment the steel workers at Port Talbot are on pretty decent wages; if they are lucky, and a buyer is found – then the wages will be slashed to minimum wage without a doubt.
This will also have a huge impact on the area – less money in the economy win or lose.
The steel plants in Cardiff show the only way they can stay open … very low pay!

Manufacturing is dying a slow death in the UK. Only when they have achieved their goal of forcing wages to that of 3rd world countries will we be able to compete.

FWIW, a good old chunk of blame lies with Ed Millband’s energy tax – it was doomed from the start and destined to cost at least some UK jobs in the face of foreign opposition happily unencumbered by this idealistic nonsense. It may or may not be smoggy in Shanghai, but a few there will be sniggering at the way we have tied ourselves in knots over this.

British Steel Corus sorry TATA have not been able to compete in mass steel for many many years. They moved to specialty steels and were aiming to make money in the low volume high price market. Now the high volume markets are falling the rest of the providers are looking to make money so those with the capabilities are looking at this market.
Once you add in lower wage bills, cheaper utilities and a government subsidy its goodbye to the UK industry.

You could say that the UK should put a tariff on Chinese steel but as long as there is a country in the EU free trade area that does not have this tariff manufacturing using said steel could potentially just move there.

I remember case studies when I was at school in the 90’s about subsidies going to electronics firms to open up plants in Wales. Not sure what ever happened to these places but everything seems to be made in the Far East now.

The trouble is when you are trying to solve a very local problem in a global system. Closing the plant in Port Talbot has been gossip for maybe a decade now and the reaction to the risk is probably 15 years too late.

I thought there was a bank garuntee schemme for the small account holders or was that a mistake on my part?

subsidies going to electronics firms to open up plants in Wales. Not sure what ever happened to these places but everything seems to be made in the Far East now.

Sony and Panasonic are still in S. Wales and for now the semiconductor plant at Newport (build under Thatcher) is still operating. Other companies make factory equipment, and a fair few few make products that get sent elsewhere to be packaged or for further processing. So don’t be fooled into thinking nothing is made anymore. But what you won’t see is many names that are recognizable outside the industry.

Thanks for revealing your source binners – it makes sense now! 😉

cornholio98 – Member

I remember case studies when I was at school in the 90’s about subsidies going to electronics firms to open up plants in Wales. Not sure what ever happened to these places but everything seems to be made in the Far East now.

Those electronic firms closed too. It seems the Welsh government offer too good to refuse subsidies,that offer short term jobs, that only really benefit companies taking them up.
A recent one is Aston Martin at Barry. No doubt the Welsh government will kit out the factory … and 5yrs down road it will all be shipped to China or India.

If Port Talbot goes then so will Trostre and the consequences for that part of Wales will be fatal. I can’t think of another employer who comes close to the quality and number of jobs that would be lost. DVLA is Swansea employs a few but that is it. Call centres and flippin burgers anyone?

It really galls me when some on this thread just go Oh well shit happens, yes it does but don’t go looking for sympathy if and when it happens to you and your family.

Denis99 – which part of Rogerstone were you in/ who are you? I used to work there!

Cornholio98 – now, you’re being a little disingenuous there… 10 years ago there was a massive investment and drive to up production and reduce cost, as well as rationalise the range of products being offered from the strip business. All the profit comes from the finishing end as I’ve said, so there was a drive to make more high quality, high margin stuff, but that’s the same for many developed markets.

The Panasonic (I think) factory in between Newport and Cardiff closed after the subsidy ran out I believe. Is the semi-conductor plant near the patent office a different place?

It really galls me when some on this thread just go Oh well shit happens, yes it does but don’t go looking for sympathy if and when it happens to you and your family.

Sources?

Seems to be quite a strong consensus here and elsewhere to see a positive solution to what is a very complex problem – the only silver lining has been the sharp bounce in steel prices and gross margins, perhaps that will tempt some investment.

Unfortunately, while this is “massive” for the region, Tata UK supplies less than 1% of global output. So the industry perspective is very different from the local economic one.

Pigface don’t worry the government will just class all the unemployed as ‘in training’ and ‘on courses’ for the rest of their lives. There will be the creation of a local partnership with an agency to help the newly unemployed to strategize their search, new courses, interview tips, CV writing…. All for jobs that don’t exist. But in Parliament politicians can show that they are ‘taking action’ and ‘that they care about South Wales’.

No one will want to piss off China or grow a leadership ‘pair of balls and enact protectionism like France did/has/still bloody does with alot of their big employers.

Arghh. And relax.

Its good to hear at least some of the job creation may have worked…

When I worked in manufacturing everyone was scared their job would be shipped to Asia and this was one of the reasons I left. The warning signs have been there for years.

It will be bad of the people involved and it will be horrible for the regions which may never recover. I can’t see a way out for the location though. If they can never be competitive then no private company will buy them and if kept open by the government it is just throwing good money after bad if money is not spend to transform the area at the same time nothing will change only kick the can down the road.

Things could be saved though if you vote Corbyn. Good old socialism will reopen the mines, the steel plants and so on, and everyone in the country will be funding to keep these places open and keep people in jobs, even if they never sell anything they produce.

I love this argument..surpised you didn’t start it with…”you know there really is no other way.”

Harking back to what happened decades ago and thinking that’s what’ll happen if we ever dare to challenge our neo-liberal order….not very progressive thinking.

The semiconductor plant is up for sale and will probably close as they are too far behind with wafer size to be cost efficient.. 🙁

Sources?

Take your pick

The semiconductor plant is up for sale and will probably close as they are too far behind with wafer size to be cost efficient..

TBF that was the case in 2000, so little has changed. The semiconductor game needs huge upfront investment and then the market is very cyclical.

Note: The original part of the factory was designed by the Richard Rogers Partnership and so has similar design features to the Lloyd’s building or Pompidou.

Lloyd’s building or Pompidou.

know locally as the inside out building, there are a pair of warehouses near the Coldra as well.

copa – Member

Any “real world” examples of limitless public funds being made available?

Here’s another one. Commitment to spend two percent of GDP on military toys. Currently around £40 billion but no limit on what it could rise to:
Defence spending commitment

The UK government couldn’t give a toss about manufacturing. The only things they’ll fund in Wales are roads to England and the military:
RAF Valley future secured
Posted 1 hour ago #

Copa, your hatred of the military doesn’t half make you post some twaddle. On the points above:

1. Don’t you think that a commitment to military spending might be good for UK manufacturing?
2. The 2% commitment was wrung out of the government by the Americans, and even then it employs some smoke and mirrors to allow them to claim 2%. Why would you think they’ll increase it further?
3. The RAF are shutting bases. Is keeping Valley open and shutting Linton-on-Ouse in (Tory) North Yorkshire a dastardly plan to see off the Welsh? Where do you think Valley’s (predominantly civilian) workforce live?

You could say that the UK should put a tariff on Chinese steel but as long as there is a country in the EU free trade area that does not have this tariff manufacturing using said steel could potentially just move there.

According to UK steel, we import LOTS more from europe anyway.

According to UK steel, we import LOTS more from europe anyway.

but cameron blocked the EU commission from imposing tarrifs Europe wide

to make sure we didnt upset osbornes plans for China to save his economic masterplan

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/feb/10/david-cameron-accused-failing-uk-steel-industry-blocking-eu-lesser-duty-proposal

International rectifier had already stated that there was to be no inward investment to Newport and when infineon bought IR it was accelerated, they had already invested heavily into a 12″ fab in Villach so the 6″ fab in Newport was always going to be on a back foot. When infineon took over at Newport they surveyed the staff and asked them to describe their positions as a painting, one guy said “it’s like the sun on the horizon, only we don’t know if it’s sunrise or sunset”. There are some very competent people there who’s skills will be either lost or drained abroad which is a huge shame never mind the impact on local communities.

but cameron blocked the EU commission from imposing tarrifs Europe wide

I don’t doubt it, the point remains that china isn’t the problem.

really?

a heavily subsidised political ally flooding the market with cheap oil and driving prices down in a global recession hasnt done our oil industry any favours, either

I put that quite badly actually, I meant that they aren’t the big problem. They are a problem obviously.

The best news for Labour is that this happened when a Tory government was in power. I say this as exactly the same thing have happened under Labour and they would have been just as powerless (due to eu regulations) and basic economics to do anything about it.

Its very tough but its hardly a surprise, its not a bolt from the blue. The decline in Steel manufacturing in the developed world has been going for decades. I don’t agree this is a short term blip either, we are in for many years of depressed economic conditions with the resultant impact on the price of steel.

12″ fab in Villach so the 6″ fab in Newport was always going to be on a back foot.

There used to be an 8″ line at Newport in the ‘new’ building. The old building process was inefficient back in 2000 due to small wafer sizes and manual handling of steps, like hand dipping into HF baths 😯

they would have been just as powerless (due to eu regulations)

………. except our government blocked attempts at the EU to scrap the levy cap only last month 😳

Actually you are right they are on 8″ wafers i’m easily confused with what their site were set up as …I’m pretty sure the no longer hand dip in HF anymore though! 🙂

The best news for Labour is that this happened when a Tory government was in power. I say this as exactly the same thing have happened under Labour and they would have been just as powerless (due to eu regulations) and basic economics to do anything about it.

Bit like the worldwide financial crisis that happened to occur when Labour were in charge then? Like you’ll ever admit that.

except our government blocked attempts at the EU to scrap the levy cap only last month

Just our government or where there others who disagreed – don’t knkw just asking ? I imagine the government looked at what there might be to gain/lose from the situation. As I posted before people on here are very happy to buy online at the lowest price, British buyers of steel are only doing the same. The amount of levies that would be required to support the price to a point where uk production was viable would be huge.

Bit like the worldwide financial crisis that happened to occur when Labour were in charge then? Like you’ll ever admit that.

But my comments have always focused on what they did after not least bailing out RBS at too high a price, wncouraging healthy Llods to buy bust Halifax Bank of Scotland and most importantly not reigning in spending post the crises. Merkel survived although she was in a minority (Bush/Brown/Sarkozy). There abolsutely would have been the same/similar crises under a Tory government.

https://fullfact.org/economy/did-uk-steel-production-halve-under-labour/

Personally I blame everyone on here who’s not a riding a steel mtb… 😀

I imagine the government looked at what there might be to gain/lose from the situatio

Maybe they raised it with Xi Jinping when he visited last year, or maybe not?

hes so desperate for the chinese to save his economic plan that hes not going to risk rocking the boat