As a slight aside, I've started riding the lower section of the TT after years of forgetting about it, it's a cracking bit of trail as good as anything the Welsh trail centres offer.

If they turn out to be less engaging for experienced riders, then at least they will be a platform to build on.

Slightly worrying sentence, Mr_A – my concern would still be that all the good TT stuff (eg upper/lower quarry/BBL) gets completely sanitised in the name of making them beginner friendly and then the money/desire to develop runs out and all we get left with is what we had before but less fun…

How often have there been instances of people accepting loss of their existing facilities with the promise of better replacements only for the replacements to either not be what was promised or not appearing at all.

I guess I'd like to hear about the full plan for further development before being willing to accept existing stuff being 'improved'. Agreed, a solution is needed but I think we have to be vary careful not to be naive in believing everything that's promised and appearing so desperate for something that we just accept whatever's proposed. Maybe having a clear development plan that mixes development of the beginner stuff with development of the more advanced stuff would be a good starting point (eg blue-ify half of the BBL section then create a red/black section, then finish the rest of BBL, etc) and would probably get a good indication of the real intentions.

In fact, come to think of it, we should be pushing to have new trails as the blues rather than replacing any existing stuff – eg the bridleway that runs along most of BBL would be perfect if developed and so on

Very well put clubber, I'll bet put a pound to a penny that the beginner trails will be part of the AC loop.

Clubber, that's a valid point, and I sort of agree, but it seems logical to redevelop Ashton Court first, as it's the focal point for riding in Bristol and all the current facilities like car parking and cafe (the one that sells the rip-off tea 😉 ) are there too.

The Quarry Trail was mentioned as a good bit of trail but the first section along Beggar Bush Lane has various problems – the direction issue, the fact that parts of it are very weatherbeaten, while other parts have been steamrollered – and I think the new design is going to address these and "even it out" slightly, while making better use of the space that we have (but not in a rat's intestines kind of way like the old 50 Acre trail). Phil did specifically mention that there was scope to build more challenging lines in tandem with the all abilities stuff. They are also going to look into the possibility of adding in a proper descent but it is early days yet – there are still a few months of consultation and surveying to come.

Kingtut, I don;t think anyone who was at the consultation would take that bet – they pretty much came out and said as much. What you do need to bear in mind is that there is potentially a lot of money up for grabs if the 1SW project's funding bid is successful – in which case, trails catering for differing abilities of user, easy and hard, will be part of the package.

You're in a much better position for 1SW money than Mendip. Doubtless you'll be aware you fulfill more criteria, being substantively closer to loads of population.

Mendip is seen as 2nd tier or possibly even lower at the moment!

Good luck!

Where are all these trails!? All I know of is the Timberland Trail, or at least thats the only one I can find any info on.

Also is there already a place to wash your bikes at the Kiosk?

Scienceofficer, that's the other thing, we are so near to having the infrastructure you need to become a proper MTB destination (which is what the 1SW project is about), it just hasn't quite been pulled together yet.

Milkie, there may be some confusion going on (places like the Quarry trail, Beggar Bush etc are actually part of the Ashton Court trail) but have a look here:

http://www.bristoltrailsgroup.com/Trail_info.htm

I'm not aware of any bike wash facilities at the cafe.

Nice one! Thats a much better detailed map.

Looking forward to any improvements, although I think its rather good as it is. I went up yesterday morning, great fun in the wet! 😀

Definately need a tap/hose to wash the bikes off tho!

Be careful you don't get passed by and lose your voice. Hopefully it won't happen, but its always a danger to consider with these big budget public accountability projects.

Independently I'd heard that Devon/Cornwall was 1st on the priority list because is has nothing at all, and that Bristol was second on the priority list since it is pretty close to having all the basics in place already.

I'm a believer in trail evolution – as one gets closed or disappears, another one is found

Amen. When I was a kid, growing up on none-more-muddy Mendip, I used to argue that we should ride the trails on a "crop rotation" basis (I even wrote a piece of GCSE General Studies coursework about it… 😳 ).

For me, "challenging" singletrack is not a neatly raked single-lane BMX course. It's about all the subtle nuances that Mother Nature and random chance throw into the mix – threading-the-needle (doing that little shrug with yer bars) through tightly spaced trees and staying upright over a tangle of wet roots. At their best, the lines in LW took you over ruined walls, round old charcoal pits, mine-workings and god-knows what else. They had real character. Accordingly, there's a thin line between "sustainable" trails and long, dull stretches of crazy-paving. This is not, er, a dig at the quite excellent work of the BTG (before I was banished into exile, I remember helping to clear up in the aftermath of the great broken Boardwalk affair, what a mint section that was…) – just comment on what I've seen happen elsewhere. So, best of luck – but also, be careful!

(Ah, the mossy depths of 50 Acre (with its particular quality of light) – how I miss thee… I'll be back, someday. 😀 )

just been thinking about paul and the bikefest.
what happens when the timberland trail around AC get made into a blue route?
people will still ride the next year but if it's too smooth they won't be back the year after, so hows this going to affect bikefest?

I agree in the notion of evolution and trail rotation noteeth, however the situation in Bristol has got beyond this by quite some extent. The sheer traffic the trails get means all the trails get massacred pretty quickly. As it isn't one group using the trails, but hundreds of individuals and seperate anarchic groups, it isn't possible to 'rest' some trails. Trails only get avoided when they're too horrible to ride.

In the particular case of Leigh Woods, the Ho Chi Minh got into a terrible state. The BTG stood no chance in fixing it without any stone, or time left over after filling holes as quick as humanly possible in LW and 50-acre, or indeed any mandate, as the debarcle of the badger bridge demonstrated. Quite a lot of the old LW trails got opened up again after many years in a semi-dormant state, and a few new ones where made, simply so people could get off the Ho Chi Minh.

Now those trails are pretty mashed too. The situation isn't sustainible in the least, by any means, getting some cash in to get one route fixed up properly is rapidly becoming our only course of action in LW.

Hopefully this will take the pressure off the network of other bristolian favorites, and having talked to Phil Saxena I'm pretty happy that he can build a well surfaced trail that won't be like a giant BMX track and will still have a bristolian feel. He's local and understands this.

TBF I'm not sure we're going to loose anything even if the HCM gets tarmaced (which I hasten to add, it isn't). Even in summer it is now rutted, devoid of flow and pretty hacked up. There will still be a host of old favorites off the main trail for the locals to enjoy, hopefully the new trail will take 90% of the considerable traffic and we can all enjoy the new facilities and revamped timberland.

so hows this going to affect bikefest?

I doubt that will be high on the list of considerations…. regardless, as I said above, I'd hope that the existing trails retain their level of technical difficulty with new easier (eg blue) trails built along side them which would be fairly easy for most – BBL has a bridleway along the length of it, Upper and lower quarry have a fire road (the bit you rode uphill for a bit during this year's BBF straight after you came off the bridge). There's no real reason for the existing stuff to be downgraded in order to build family routes though I am concerned that it will still be considered an option…

what happens when the timberland trail around AC get made into a blue route?

They may have a load more options and trail to play with. The idea is to make a trail thats easy to bimble down at 5mph, but fun, rollercoastery and hard to ride at race pace. Seen as you can't have 50ft gap jumps in an XC marathon race course, I don't think it'll be worse, I think it'll be a whole load better. Phil is def keen to add extra harder bits of trail off the main route, no reason the bikefest can't use them, but just recall all the choke points in the past few years where loads of people are off and walking are bits which are not really that technically challenging …

If it all comes off as intended mind …

Theres alot of talk about flow on this thread, like its meant to be the zenith of trail nirvana.

Bastard difficult, awkward 'thrutchy' stuff with no flow and tricky momentum shifts can be fun too you know!
8)

Clubber, you seem to be implying that sending a new "blue" route along a track or fire road is going to cut out the middleman. I think you're doing Phil a disservice – from talking to him and working with him he really wants to build trails that are genuinely engaging to ride as well as sustainable and suitable for beginners. I did bang home your point at the meeting, and even printed out this thread and showed them comments like Burchy's above.

I agree with Noteeth that the twisty, rooty, natural-feeling trails we have round here are truly excellent, unfortunately most of them have now been worn beyond all recognition from a few years ago. It's time to move on, rather than try to patch up the same tired and ugly bits of trail year in year out. I don't think the Bike Fest will suffer either if there are new trails for it to use.

I agree, but when all the trails are like that becuase of bike swallowing holes, wheelbase length apart, for the entire length – it gets a bit much 🙂 And when its wet, your choices boil down to trials that have bike swallowing holes, wheelbase length apart, full of water, or 2m wide with 6" deep slurry, its not really condusive to a fun time.

I'm pretty sure the old trails will be left for your thrutching needs too 😉

Scienceofficer, I think with reference to the "flow", I don't mind awkward techy stuff on a gradient (up or down) where you feel like you're actually going somewhere and achieving something, but bear in mind we're talking about somewhere fairly flat, with no penalty for not riding stuff cleanly, and no way of keeping people on the line.

Sorry if I sound like an apologist for the trail-sanitisers here, but to be honest
a) I think there's potential for the redevelopment to be really good, and
b) I'm getting a bit sick of people being protective over increasingly knackered trails that comparatively few mountain bikers seem to want to actually preserve or maintain.

the situation in Bristol has got beyond this by quite some extent

I admit I've been away for a few years (though it feels like centuries… 😯 ). Put it this way, when I used to regularly roll around LW (so to speak), Imperial Records was still open…

Anyway, judging by this thread, there are level heads all round. I look forward to seeing what the future brings (Park Street is being turned into a giant 4X course, you say?). 😀

Things have been quietly moving on. The first version of the trail design and study is complete, and is nearing the end of the approval process. There should also be a decision on whether the funding for the wider project (across the whole of the South West) is approved, within the next 1-2 weeks.

For more details have a look here:

http://www.bristoltrailsgroup.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8&p=185#p185

And by way of a cheeky plug, if you want to do something to improve the trails here and now, we're running a dig day in 50 Acre Wood this Saturday. More details here:

http://www.bristoltrailsgroup.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=62