without a flicker of guilt.

I doubt that very, very much.

cougar – its more about preventing reoffending. Rehabilitation is what is needed.

Its really all rathe3r complex for this debate – its more fun to point out the massive holes in ilovemygears drivel 🙂

the jail population consists of the mad, the bad and the sad. they need different approaches. Giving them life skills both in terms of skills to get work and skills to help them interact with people in a “normal”manner.

Effective drug rhebilitation

Help with low self esteem

All the sorts of things that the daily wail hates “holidays for cons”

community sentances work better than incarceration does.

Read some of Erwin James writings

me? im not a troll…

That’s worrying then… 🙄

any of you bloke having a two penneth on this thread got kids?
i know teej has not so he is exempt from answering.

can you imagine a bloke being allowed to live after he has been found guilty of and sentenced for sodomising and murdering your teenage daughter?

and answer me honestly……..would you want him to die.

But what would you give to prevent the crime in the first place, seems those supporting the death sentence are only concerned with revenge after the fact, and those supporting slow violent deaths seem to be closer to committing crimes of violence themselves.

Answer please

TandemJeremy – Member

“we will have to make sure in a way that id 100% cant be to hard,”

What is it then? At the moment its “beyond reasonable doubt” thats the standard of proof required.

Now please define a new standard that means Fred West gets executed but the Birmingham 6 or Stephen Downing don’t.
Posted 3 minutes ago # Edit

The obvious solution is for society to identify and work with those most likely to commit crime at an early age to prevent them taking that path, however, thats not practical.

So how do you identify these people?

MSP, like any decent bloke, i want a sociaty where my kids/gandkids are safe, where my wife is safe.
but we do not have one do we.
and since the death penaly/capital punishment was abolished murder rates have risen.

go figure!

ton – you do know the murder rate is at a 20 year low? We actually have a very safe environment with a very low murder rate.

that was 30 od years ago, useing modern tecnoligy he would never have been convicted!

that was 30 od years ago, useing modern tecnoligy he would never have been convicted!

😯

Answer the questions!

ton – Member
MSP, like any decent bloke, i want a sociaty where my kids/gandkids are safe, where my wife is safe.
but we do not have one do we.
and since the death penaly/capital punishment was abolished murder rates have risen.

go figure!

it seems simple to me

MSP, like any decent bloke, i want a sociaty where my kids/gandkids are safe, where my wife is safe.
but we do not have one do we.
and since the death penaly/capital punishment was abolished murder rates have risen.

Generally speaking our society is very safe indeed. Some people need to stop reading tabloid fear-mongering.

teej, is the muder rate as low as it was in 1964?

grum, the only paper i ever read is the rugby leager

Answer the questions!

i have! that was 30 odd years ago, useing modern tecnoligy he would never have been convicted!

I take it you mean Stephen Downing?

Her blood on him, signed confession. (IIRC) what more do you want?

It really comes down to three things.

first is whether we as a society want to go down the route of barbarism and sanction killing people and have their blood on our hands even if they are guilty.

second is whether we are willing to accept erroneous executions. they will happen so we have to weight that up against our desire for the third thing.

third is whether punishments are meant to be deterrent and/or correctional or simply about revenge. The reason that people affected by cases in the uk aren’t allowed to be involved in the scentencing is because our laws say we don’t punish for revenge. sentences should be fair and consistent.

If you believe that revenge should be a reasoning behind sentencing and advocate the death penalty then say so, don’t hide behind the statement that it’ll make people think twice or that it’ll have an overall deterrent effect because that’s been clearly shown to be incorrect.

I have a son so apparently I’m qualified to answer the other question 🙄

I’d quite possibly want the guilty party dead at least sometimes. In the mean time.in order to have what is IMO a safer, better society I’d rather have that option taken away. Emotive responses are rarely or even never the best ones.

Generally speaking our society is very safe indeed. Some people need to stop reading tabloid fear-mongering.

if you live in a nice middle class bit that is!

if you live in a nice middle class bit that is!

No, by world standards, even the most deprived areas of this country are pretty damn safe.

Intentional homicide rates per 100,000 population
by region and subregion, 2004[6]
Southern Africa 37.3
Central America 29.3
South America 25.9
West and Central Africa 21.6
East Africa 20.8
Africa 20
Caribbean 18.1
Americas 16.2
East Europe 15.7
North Africa 7.6
World 7.6
North America 6.5
Central Asia and Transcaucasian countries 6.6
Europe 5.4
Near and Middle East/South-west Asia 4.4
Oceania 4
South Asia 3.4
Asia 3.2
South-east Europe 3.2
East and South-east Asia 2.8
West and Central Europe 1.5

Nicked it

ok maybe very occasionally mistakes will be made, but we can learn from them and not make them again in the future. Pales tell me though how you could ever compare this to Fred west who spent hour after hour describing how he killed,

ton – its down to the level in the 70s

There is no evidence or even any good reason to think the death sentence deters murder.

Most murder is done in temper, most is done by people who know the victim. Its not a rational decision that can be deterred.

ok maybe very occasionally mistakes will be made, but we can learn from them and not make them again in the future.

So you’d be happy (or would at least find it acceptable) for an innocent person to be executed by the State? nice…

TandemJeremy –
Member
Answer the questions!

yes it’s frustrating when folk don’t.

ilovemy gears – answer the questions!

Are you now accepting that innocent people would be killed? are you prepared to accept an innocent member of your family being executed by mistake?

TandemJeremy – Member
ton – its down to the level in the 70s

There is no evidence or even any good reason to think the death sentence deters murder.

Most murder is done in temper, most is done by people who know the victim. Its not a rational decision that can be deterred.

yes but they cant do it again once there dead, people need to take responsibility for there own actions at all times! Im not talking about that sort of crime any way. im talking about people that plan then go rape and kill children etc!

ilovemy gears – answer the questions!

Are you now accepting that innocent people would be killed? are you prepared to accept an innocent member of your family being executed by mistake?
maybe that could happen you never know..yes im prepared to take that risk to keep filth of the streets!

but we can learn from them and not make them again in the future.

Like when an innocent person gets executed?

BoardinBob, you’d identify them by pinpointing the areas with a high proportion of criminals based on historical data, look for similarities be the social problems, high unemployment etc and treat the root cause through community initiative; it would be an indirect and long process.

By giving people self esteem you are likely to increase their empathy towards others.

innocent victims get killed every day, no one gives a **** about that, just the criminals and his rights..

so ilovemygears – please define how you make sure these people get executed and people like Stefan Kiszko and Stephen downing do not?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephen_Downing_case

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan_Kiszko

there is always gonna be some miscarrage of justice.
but the list of cold hearted evil twisted people sat in our prisons, costing the country vast amounts of money, far outweighs the few unlucky ones.

Like when an innocent person gets executed?

well as it would be such a rare event i don’t thin it would be a problem if we only execute the worst of the worst then it will be ok, you know people that kill and rape children, like the Soham killer Ian Huntley

TandemJeremy – Member
so ilovemygears – please define how you make sure these people get executed and people like Stefan Kiszko and Stephen downing do not?

a nation wide vote.. we would have to vote to get some one executed! we would have to put a lot of money in to new ways of securing a safe conviction, maybe some sort brain scanning device..

well as it would be such a rare event i don’t thin it would be a problem

so you would be quite contrent for your child to be wrongly convicted adn excecuted then?

Wrongful convictions for murder do happen and keep on happening

so the only cost.is financial?

a nation wide vote.. we would have to vote to get some one executed!

😯

Hello – earth to ilovemygears – is there anyone there?

bigbrother TV executions then?

Ilovemygears

Assuming not are not a troll:

If your perp is mentally ill or insane, would you pull the trigger?

How can you have a serious discussion – when you have complete idiots come out with moronic posts such as this … 😳

TandemJeremy – Member
Right – define that then.
How about people who kill kids by hitting them with their cars?
How about people that loose their temper and shake a kid and kill it?
How about the mother who has the baby in her bed and accidentaly rolls onto it and smothers it?
How about the parent with mental health difficulties who kills a child in despair?