In the next 20 years, I foresee the dissolution of the United Kingdom. In its place, I would love to see a coming together of Wales, Scotland, and Ireland in an economically-viable and equitable political union.

Unlikely, I know, but worth dreaming about. Yes? No?

Discuss.

Why would flourishing Ireland want to do that?

No thanks.

Don’t make this an anti English thing, I really want us to be independent, to make our own choices that will benefit our country.

Not compromises with other countries that we don’t even have a land border with.

What happens to Northern Ireland? We’re not touching that one with a bargepole.

What happens to Northern Ireland?

I figure a Celtic Union would solve that. The Loyalists in NI are all historically Scottish anyway, aren’t they? That is, before Queen Elizabeth I coerced them with the plantations…

The Loyalists in NI are all historically Scottish anyway, aren’t they

We don’t want them!

Too right we don’t, there’s enough loonballs here as it is!

I’m struggling to see why someone with the username ’SaxonRider‘ would want to stir up a shitstorm around Celtic separateism.
To quote a tee shirt I bought at a gig, ‘why can’t we just get along, bitch’.

Wales wanted Brexit didn’t they?

Aren’t you Canadian?

Aren’t you Canadian?

Half British half German, born in Canada, living in Wales. 🙂

As for Wales wanting Brexit:

Work by Danny Dorling, a professor of geography at Oxford, found that the result could in part be attributed to the influence of English voters.
“If you look at the more genuinely Welsh areas, especially the Welsh-speaking ones, they did not want to leave the EU,” Dorling told the Sunday Times. “Wales was made to look like a Brexit-supporting nation by its English settlers.”

From this article in the Guardian.

Why do you think it’s even an idea worth considering? Why have you excluded Brittany and Cornwall?

I can’t really see any reason for it. As a Scot, I’d see a union with Wales and Ireland as a sort of “middle way fallacy”. It has the same issues as the UK union but with fewer of the benefits. If you are pro Scottish independence (I’m not) I don’t see how you could be pro a Celtic union without some serious mental gymnastics.

Based on my likely very biased experiences of visiting Wales and Ireland I have never detected much warmth for the Scots. In Ireland it’s kind of obvious – the Scots were the middle management of the empire. Wales is just wales, they seem to dislike a lot.

@saxonrider so what you’re actually trying to say is, you want to flush out tbe genuine Welsh feom the pretend ones? How many generations in the graveyard to qualify as genuine?

The natural advantage is the obvious pincer movement when they invade what is left of England after ten years of Brexit negotiations.

Based on my likely very biased experiences of visiting Wales and Ireland I have never detected much warmth for the Scots

Really? It’s funny how our perceptions are formed and skewed so that we can have such different experiences.

Any “Celtic Union” is more likely to take the form of the Nordic Council, promoting cooperation and helping to resolve disputes. It would be bizarre to exclude an England/RUK in any such organisation.

If you are pro Scottish independence (I’m not) I don’t see how you could be pro a Celtic union without some serious mental gymnastics.

A lot of pro independence voters are actually just anti English, on that basis it is not such a leap

A lot of pro independence voters are actually just anti English, on that basis it is not such a leap

You got a source for that statement?

As for that Dorling piece, a similar post-Indyref study (by Manchester Uni IIRC) showed that the “No” vote was carried by non-native Scots. English/Welsh/Irish obviously concerned about family and internal border and (ironically) EU nationals concerned about the Scotland-EU relationship. However, that’s a dangerous road to go down. We can’t on the one hand say ” welcome to Scotland – you’re Scottish as long as you want to be” and then say “but you don’t get a vote”.

A lot =/=  2

A lot of pro independence voters are actually just anti English, on that basis it is not such a leap

Baws.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British%E2%80%93Irish_Council

A lot of pro independence voters are actually just anti English, on that basis it is not such a leap

I’m not sure it’s “a lot” but they do exist. It’s a really shaky argument for independence. Especially if you try and ask what it is they hate about the English, and then go down the path of all the other groups those things apply to. But then Nationalism is a bit weird and this the dark underbelly of it.

There are a few **** in Scotland? You say that like it’s news.

I haven’t seen anyone argue that anti-Englishism is a good argument for independence, though I guess the OP comes close – by inference.

I honestly know more anti-Scots than anti-English.

Ridiculously.

One nice thought since it’s easy to get sucked into all the UK and EU strife.

One of the greatest philosophers of the middle ages was a Scot called John Duns. He died in 1308 and his tomb in Cologne has the inscription:

Scotland brought me forth. England sustained me. France taught me. Cologne holds me

Hopefully we’ll all manage to keep the links between different countries regardless of whatever arbitrary political unions are in place.

It makes sense for smaller countries to work together on some issues. And gives them more influence internationally, without being dominated by larger countries. So it could be worthwhile to have a group excluding England.
There is a “Forum of Small States” within the UN.

Why would it be necessary to exclude England? Bigger maybe but with a shared border and equal standing at the table I see no reason to ever exclude them by default.

It’s easy to hate on the English, just as easily as it is to hate on anyone else for whatever slight they may (or may not) have caused you.

We need less bigotry, not more. Thanks.

It makes sense for smaller countries to work together on some issues. And gives them more influence internationally

Population wise the combination of Scotland, Wales and Ireland puts us somewhere around the size of the Netherlands.

We would combine three international non entities into a non entity. I’d imagine in terms of economic clout we’d be punching in the top 20 to 30 though.

Population wise, Scotland is about the size of Slovakia, Denmark, Norway or Ireland. I’m not sure any of those consider them selves to be a “non-entity”.

You got a source for that statement?

Yep, I love in Scotland and I speak to people.

I wouldn’t call it a lot but there are certainly people with those sentiments.

That aside, anecdote =/= data.

We would combine three international non entities into a non entity

To be fair only Scotland and Wales are international non-entities.

We would combine three international non entities into a non entity.

Right, yeah.

Working together when it makes sense, makes sense. I don’t see any sort of country type relationship after the collapse of the UK but I can definitely see a little union within the big union.

so what you’re actually trying to say is, you want to flush out tbe genuine Welsh feom the pretend ones? How many generations in the graveyard to qualify as genuine?

No, actually, I’m not saying that at all.

It’s not for nothing, however, that Pembrokeshire gets called ‘Little England Beyond Wales’. Rich Home Counties folk who buy second homes in Cornwall, then retire there, don’t become Cornish just because of their new postcode either.

Having lived in the Caribbean for a while as well, I also think that the Islands should band together and become a “United Islands of the Caribbean”, including especially those islands marginalised by US trade policies.

…just as Canadians living in Wales dont become Welsh just because they live there either ( I suppose ? ) …

Population wise, Scotland is about the size of Slovakia, Denmark, Norway or Ireland. I’m not sure any of those consider them selves to be a “non-entity”.

No but then a little yappy dog thinks it’s the business, doesn’t mean anyone else takes any notice. That’s why nearly all the small central and Eastern European countries are acutely aware of how important it is for them to be integral members of the EU and NATO, rather than create a different minor union between themselves.

If you genuinely wanted a Celtic union type thing, you’d be better off going all out for Scottish independence then join the EU and use the tools that come with that to build closer links with Ireland. Sort of like how the EU has facilitated close cooperation between the Baltic countries.

nobody wants a celtic union / UK minus england. Its a stupid idea. Scotland wants to be independent within the EU

We would combine three international non entities into a non entity

I’d love to live in a non entity country. It would be so much better than what we currently have: a country that thinks it’s an entity and bases it’s decision making and foreign policy on the dream that it still is.