I just can’t get my head around his decision, protest vote or not.

Just accept that you will never understand what goes on in the minds of others and move on. You are not right, they are not wrong – you just see it differently.

I’m not going to be stopping talking to my dad. I just can’t get my head around his decision, protest vote or not.

Well glad to hear you’ve not lost your family.

Anyone who argues against the benefits of multicultural understanding and the collective drive to improve things for the whole I find completely unfathomable

Then you should do some research. The overwhelming evidence is homogeneous environments outperform mixed / multicultural in every respect from performance to happiness to crime to inequality.

Ballcocks to it all now – the Govt have really fluffed this up between them, and ruined any possible good outcome. I wouldn’t get too upset about what others think. The whole thing is a complete mess – worse than that.

Then you should do some research. The overwhelming evidence is homogeneous environments outperform mixed / multicultural in every respect from performance to happiness to crime to inequality.

You wot?

You’ll need to supply some links to back that up, since all that I’ve read says immigration is good for the economy.

Well you probably wouldn’t find it on the BBC.

https://sputniknews.com/europe/201810101068751249-sweden-gdp-immigration/

https://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUKKCN1IK0EO

Even if immigration did help boost an economy that isn’t the point I was making. And anyway how does that help the OPs desire to help the rest of the world by the power of diversity?

England is less than 1% of the world population, Europe 10%? And rapidly heading to half that. Its also the most densely populated.

What about the countries they are coming from and their economies. What is the end game, should Europeans be shipped off round the world so the power of diversity can work its magic. That sounds more like colonialism. And should China and India do the same?

If you want to raise standards of living at global level there are ways, open borders isn’t one of them.

Tinribz, EU immigration is being replaced by non-EU immigration. EU immigrants are generally well-educated and instantly enter the workforce. Non-EU migrants take a little longer, 7-8 years according to the Swedes, which is still less than the 20 years for a native. Anyhow the Germans are convinced EU immigration is a source of growth.

https://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/soziales/eu-zuwanderung-foerdert-wirtschaftswachstum-in-deutschland-laut-diw-studie-a-1236062.html

tinribz I don’t know why you think an article by a Russian government news agency furthers your argument. It is in their interests to spread disinformation against hostile economic and military adversaries, as it is in the West’s interests to spread disinformation about them.

And your second link doesn’t prove anything other than migrants have provided a monetary cost for the Germany government. Is that a bad thing? Why shouldn’t it be seen as just another worthwhile government investment?

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-germany-economy-gdp/higher-state-spending-helps-german-economy-avoid-recession-in-fourth-quarter-idUKKCN1QB0N5

fine maybe I was a bit dramatic, red wine does that

I think you mean “wine of color”.

What about the countries they are coming from and their economies. What is the end game, should Europeans be shipped off round the world so the power of diversity can work its magic. That sounds more like colonialism. And should China and India do the same?

Well, here’s some stuff to think about.

1) Many people come from poorer countries to richer ones, work for a bit, gain skills then take them home again. Of course many stay, but let’s not ignore the fact that there is at least some two way traffic.

2) It’s not just people that move, it’s also goods and services, they are bundled up together in the EU at least. So if you need the expertise of a company in another EU country, you just call them up and there’s no issue. There’s no restrictions and no hoops to jump though. (In my job we end up sitting at a client’s computer telling them what to do – we aren’t allowed to actually do anything, unless we’re in the EU where we get full access.) This is skills transfer in the opposite direction.

Do you really think the poorer EU countries would have been better off without the free movement of people, goods and labour?

That Roy Beck is presenting a straw man to justify being unpleasant to immigrants. He wilfully ignores the actual issues.

For example, immigration isn’t about solving world poverty by allowing all poor people into the US. That’s utterly ludicrous, as he points out. But no-one’s suggesting that it is a solution, precisely because it’s utterly ludicrous. It’s a straw man in the true sense (not the way it’s chucked around on here).

There’s a difference between economic migrants and refugees. The USA allows economic migrants based on the need of it’s own economic needs already. And their immigration model isn’t based on ‘free movement’ like the EU – you come to the US and you stay. He’s assuming like many Americans that the US is the world’s best place and that everyone wants to go there and become American.