I think a protest vote is fine, I think people people having different opinions is fine. Bit when the dust settles and we have left the EU and realised it wasn’t a really a good idea who will we have to lead us into the brave new world, Boris!

People are sick of not being listened to. As long as this continues, snake oil salesmen like Farage and Boris will benefit.

For some people with leave tinted glasses it is possible to have a nuanced and intelligence led conversation regarding the facts and that’s to be be commended on both sides, the ability to put your point across without resorting to name calling or verbal abuse is part and parcel of a functioning society, but even i draw the line at the utter stupidity of some arguments voiced by those who are entrenched in brexiteer views – for those folk there really is no hope of ever having a coherent conversation as you get hit with quotes such as “52%, we won…get over it….i believe we will get a better trade deal…..take back control…..control over immigration…..i’m not racist but…..farage speaks sense to me…..”

For those folk who refuse/cannot see the lies despite being shown overwhelming evidence then **** em, to call them **** cretins is entirely justified.

edit : perhaps I’m not exactly an impartial person to talk about this as the very small and targeted medical trial study i was possibly due to take part in was cancelled due to concerns over eu transportation of genetically modified gut microbiota as part of a study into the effect of the gut microbiome and its role in regulating the immune system as part of a multiple sclerosis study, this offers a real hope in developing new treatments for the disease, but then again what do i know being a remainer with secondary progressive multiple sclerosis, on a good note i can stand up today so that’s a win…however i have constant pins & needles in all my limbs and my leg muscles are locked solid with muscle spasms at the moment, my arms are also getting weaker by the day, not to mention no control over bladder/bowels so if i call out some **** cretin for how they voted then i’m afraid you’ll just have to forgive me, as i really **** mean it.

You seem to want to disown your family

I think the OP is saying exactly the opposite. He has a strong bond with his family and
Is upset about the strain that his parents’ diametrically opposed views are putting on a valued relationship.

It’s interesting how so many people are able to explain why they support a party that has no manifesto and whose leader studiously avoids answering any questions about his policies. That’s the clever thing about the Brexit Party. By standing for nothing, they can be an empty platform for people to vent about anything they are unhappy about. Ultimately, that will be their greatest weakness as well.

I think a protest vote is fine,

Isn’t that one of the reasons we’re in this mess? A lot of people protest voted and didn’t think it would actually happen!

Even if remain won they would still think the same things .

It’s a bit dramatic to say you feel sick ever since you found out about your fathers vote.
It was a choice and he made one, whether it was a protest vote or not.
My sister made a vote that was different to mine but that’s her choice and I certainly won’t lose sleep over it.
I really worry for the future when people are marginalised and castigated for having different views to the person next to them.

My F-I-L and I used to have some great conversations about politics – more often than not, we would agree but because of Brexit we have no common ground on that subject – he literally just comes out with ‘democracy, I voted against this in the 70’s, Brexit means Brexit’ or whatever. There is no conversation – it is just a cult. Forget about any evidence.

Exactly the same thing as when you post ‘what is the first EU law you would repeal?’ on Singletrack to be honest 🙂

But here is the thing – we just talk about something else!

I think Brexit is completely insane – and its cheerleaders and enablers are charlatans of the highest order but I’m not falling out with my family over an arsehole like Farage.

Yaxley-Lennon voters – that would be different – they can definitely all do one.

So you’ve ‘lost’ your family because they have a different view to you on something?! You need to take a long hard look in the mirror.

For some people with leave tinted glasses it is possible to have a nuanced and intelligence led conversation regarding the facts and that’s to be be commended on both sides, the ability to put your point across without resorting to name calling or verbal abuse is part and parcel of a functioning society, but even i draw the line at the utter stupidity of some arguments voiced by those who are entrenched in brexiteer views

… I think someone is trolling; or not read the Brexit thread!

Your opinion (and that is all it is) is no better or worse than anyone else’s.

Precisely, I fell out with my parents over their annoying insistence that their opinion the earth was spherical was somehow ‘better’ than my take that it’s basically flat and we can accidentally fall off the edge :-/

fine maybe I was a bit dramatic, red wine does that. But still cannot understand it, even as a protest vote

Just carry on their still your family no neeed for the dramatics because they voted differently.

It’s much more than politics. The OP is upset because someone he is close to has done something that is shocking and awful to him. This can happen at any point, like when the child of a prudish parent comes home with a tattoo or similar.

And voting for Farage isn’t just a political decision. The implications of this approach to your democratic obligation are far reaching. Brexit is not just a government, it fundamentally changes who we are as a nation, and that makes it difficult when you personally don’t agree with it. If you felt good about your country, you may now feel ashamed of it. This is a big personal change to your sense of self and identity. As well as the actual legal removal of your EU citizenship. Imagine being stripped of your English citizenship. This would be a shock to most people and would cause quite a bit of upset, to put it mildly. You may not think EU citizenship is important, but many people did. These are personal issues that have been decided for remainers by people who do not value these things.

The OP is upset because someone he is close to has done something that is shocking and awful to him. This can happen at any point, like when the child of a prudish parent comes home with a tattoo or similar.

Exactly which is why you forget about and move on.

Can’t you just ask that you no longer talk about politics, and never do so again?

Plenty of other things to talk about, no doubt, and seeing as you know each like, well, father and son it should only take a ‘look’ or a ‘noise’ to signal that a conversation is straying in the direction of the verboten(?)

FWIW, I strongly suspect my Mum voted ‘Leave’, so now I just don’t talk about it in front of her.

^molgrips has it pretty bang on there.

Just got back from my parents, both of whom voted leave in the referendum. They also voted to not join in the first place.

Since the referendum, my mum has gone full Mail reading, Brexit voting gammon. Tonight my dad did at least concede that the failure to deliver it had left many businesses and jobs in limbo, and distracted Parliament from addressing the many urgent issues facing UK society. First time he’s disagreed with her on the subject that I can recall.

But they are still my parents and I love them. I understand why they vote the way they do, even if I don’t agree with them.

molgrips

Subscriber
Just carry on their still your family no neeed for the dramatics because they voted differently.

It’s much more than politics. The OP is upset because someone he is close to has done something that is shocking and awful to him. This can happen at any point, like when the child of a prudish parent comes home with a tattoo or similar.

And voting for Farage isn’t just a political decision. The implications of this approach to your democratic obligation are far reaching. Brexit is not just a government, it fundamentally changes who we are as a nation, and that makes it difficult when you personally don’t agree with it. If you felt good about your country, you may now feel ashamed of it. This is a big personal change to your sense of self and identity. As well as the actual legal removal of your EU citizenship. Imagine being stripped of your English citizenship. This would be a shock to most people and would cause quite a bit of upset, to put it mildly. You may not think EU citizenship is important, but many people did. These are personal issues that have been decided for remainers by people who do not value these things.

Grow up!

Pook

Subscriber
^molgrips has it pretty bang on there.

No he has not .. he just coming across as almost as big a ****t as what you did. You need to grow up too.

Easy Mooman no need for that.

Appols.

My patience runs dry at times.

Working with people with real problems day in day out – then having drama Queens pouting about losing family members … over a difference of opinion is bit too much at times.

Please accept my apologies for biting.

I’m just trying to work out what five letter insult ends in t

fine maybe I was a bit dramatic, red wine does that. But still cannot understand it, even as a protest vote

My take, fwiw, would be that if you think it might help and you’re both capable of it, have a non-confrontational chat about why your dad chose to vote the way he did. The ultimate action may be unpalatable, but the motivation behind it may be understandable. The two things aren’t necessarily the same.

You’ve never struck me as a confrontational sort of guy, so I suspect if you can put your immediate gut reaction to one side, you’d be quite capable of doing that. Whether your dad can is up to you to judge. But I’d try to separate the motivation from the action. Understanding why might help, maybe.

I wouldn’t lose too much sleep if my friends / family voted for that bell end, but I honestly can’t see how anyone with a brain would do it.

Nice apology and I hear where you are coming from that’s exactly why I see this as non incidental

Pook … what’s is your experience of Europe?

Travelled as a tourist to all four corners. Worked in Germany (and continue to work alongside German, Norwegian, Spanish, French and others as a head responsible for global activities in a multinational FTSE 100).
In laws are Greek and extended family is Greek.
My family are Irish heritage.

But my experience? Limited. Even with all that up there I’m inexperienced.

My take, fwiw, would be that if you think it might help and you’re both capable of it, have a non-confrontational chat about why your dad chose to vote the way he did. The ultimate action may be unpalatable, but the motivation behind it may be understandable. The two things aren’t necessarily the same.

You’ve never struck me as a confrontational sort of guy, so I suspect if you can put your immediate gut reaction to one side, you’d be quite capable of doing that. Whether your dad can is up to you to judge. But I’d try to separate the motivation from the action. Understanding why might help, maybe.

^^^absolutely nails it here.

With all due respect OP, it sounds like you have a lack of understanding of your dad’s thought processes and motivations – the end result/person he voted for might be unpalatable to you, but that’s just the end point.

What are the concerns he had with the current set up? Did something Brexit campaigners say really resonate? Was it grounded in truth? Did something Remain campaigners say alienate him and create a reaction? Was it a protest vote against “the establishment”?

So many valid questions each with valid answers, where there’s doubtless a lot to learn on all sides.

Fwiw I voted remain but I completely distance myself from anyone using phrases like “gammons” etc. You never, ever win someone round by insulting them.

I’d also strongly recommend reading “way of the wolf” by Jordan Belfort. It was written as a sales book but in these polarised times is something that would be hugely beneficial for more people to read before trying to put their point across about politics, religion or just about anything else.

Some interesting points raised here, but at the end of the say family are family you are stuck with them.
Its made me think though, I dont really have any friends with different life views to the extent they’d vote Farage. I have a few work colleagues that vote Tory who I would share a pint or two with but we’d never be friends as such. Maybe this makes me narrow minded but I just wouldnt feel comfortable spending time with Tory voters.

This is an interesting thread, my Mum just turned 70 and voted leave. She was concerned about the number of Polish in her area and ‘where we are going to put them all’. Irony being she’s an immigrant herself.

The problem isn’t a difference of opinion, favouring red over blue isn’t a relationship changing opinion. But some of the underlying stuff Brexit has brought out in people has been the problem. As for moving on, well unless you all live in an alternate reality it’s still in the news and painfully apparent that its ongoing everyday, in fact if you were to remove all trace of it from the news of the last 4 years I’m not sure there’s be more than a crappy Sunday papers worth of other news.

Do I want politics to change my relationship with people? No, I’d love to have open discussions about differences of opinion. Is that what has really happened, nope.

anagallis_arvensis

Member
… I dont really have any friends with different life views to the extent they’d vote Farage. I have a few work colleagues that vote Tory who I would share a pint or two with but we’d never be friends as such. Maybe this makes me narrow minded but I just wouldnt feel comfortable spending time with Tory voters.

You really need to reflect on what you have written here, and ask yourself if these are flippant comments … or if you really mean then.

So many of your statements mark you out as fundamentally bigoted – and seemingly ignorant to how flawed this makes you as a person. Your dislike of Farage is your opinion which is fair enough, and your perfectly entitled to feel that way; but to allow this to guide your life course marks you down as an individual that surpasses the negatives that are afforded to Farage many times over.

As for moving on, well unless you all live in an alternate reality it’s still in the news and painfully apparent that its ongoing everyday

Moving in with your family does not mean ignoring that Brexit is still a hot topic just that falling out with your family over such things is pointless.

Maybe this makes me narrow minded but I just wouldnt feel comfortable spending time with Tory voters.

Do you check with all you friends to see how they voted?

my Mum just turned 70 and voted leave. She was concerned about the number of Polish in her area and ‘where we are going to put them all’. Irony being she’s an immigrant herself.

Here’s the thing though – there’s 2 angles (at least) here. One is the “emotional hook/solidarity” with fellow immigrants, the other is potentially a pragmatic one of “where will we house/school/support” them. The two aspects aren’t mutually exclusive, so you could have someone like your mum who came here as an immigrant, but sees on a pragmatic level (where she lives) that there’s not sufficient infrastructure to support a new influx. Neither angle is wrong, and she’s not a bad person for having a pragmatic concern either. It’s part of a bigger conversation around how we as a nation can support people wanting to come here, who picks up the tab, and how we ensure they (and everyone else) have access to housing they can afford, jobs to earn a living and services & opportunities to meet their ambitions.

They’ll be dead soon, no need to worry OP.

So many of your statements mark you out as fundamentally bigoted

Oh well

Do you check with all you friends to see how they voted?

No but amongst my “real” friends our world view and voting intentions combined with discussion of current affairs come up.

who picks up the tab

Immigrants help us “pick up the tab”. They pay in more on average than “we” do. This is doubly true of those born in EU/EEA countries. It’s not hard to understand this, and as a result stop feeding the anti immigrant feeling with nonsense that suggests they are a burden.

Anyway… OP you HAVE to try and get on with your friends and family, no matter how they voted. And the older generation, including your own blood line, being more receptive to the fear being whipped up about those who speak more than one language in public is nothing new. It’s something kids and grandkids have delt with for decades. You can deal with it as well OP. Try harder. You can and should do so. And yes, it isn’t always easy.

No but amongst my “real” friends our world view and voting intentions combined with discussion of current affairs come up.

Do you then stop being friends with them just because they voted differently to you.

Do you then stop being friends with them just because they voted differently to you.

No, none of them vote for UKip/Brexit or Tory though.

Must be very weird living in such a bubble.

Maybe, maybe not.

My dad has always been a working class Tory voter, and my brother was a farmer for 30 years, and like many farmers was also a Tory voter. I’ve never voted Tory and find some of their opinions quite amusing. The key point though is that our political differences have never once got in the way of our relationships – there’s more to life (my mum died very young so maybe that focused priorities a bit more sharply). He’s in his 80s now and for the sake of me and his grandchildren im not going to waste that time.

Another thing that came up earlier in this thread was people using the term “old”, a description often used in relation to “old” people robbing younger generations of their future etc. I struggle a bit with this in terms of defining what “old” is. My dad still works (runs his own business out of a van) and pays taxes etc… so someone who is 60 might yet have 20 years work ahead of them – so it’s as much their future as anyone else’s.