I’m a fervent remainer. Anyone who argues against the benefits of multicultural understanding and the collective drive to improve things for the whole I find completely unfathomable. I simply can’t understand it. I try to understand it by thinking they are the brainwashed by rhetoric, but as these people are often my free thinking, intelligent friends, I worry more.

My parents read the Mail. In the Referendum they voted out. I argue that was nonsense for all the reasons we now understand.

Today, I’ve found out my former card carrying Labour member dad – someone I have admired and modelled my life choices on, because he is a thoroughly, brilliantly decent person – has voted Farage.

And I’m lost.

He told me today mid-morning as I was working from home and he was here to go and pick up my youngest from nursery at lunch.I have felt sick since.

I simply don’t know what to do.

Just carry on their still your family no neeed for the dramatics because they voted differently.

Maybe he’s just older and wiser?
As we take all the nurses from Poland and Spain what does that actually do for these countries?

Just how does that enable the poorest countries to grow, it allows the richest countries to take the brightest people so they grow, and the poorest countries shrink while the the richest grow.

It’s not growing all of the countries so they are all successful…
Why would the richest countries allow that?
It’s an elitist club that allows the richest to grow.

Drac +1

Edit – it’s been said now.. ish 🙂

If he voted for Nigel Farage, then presumably he is OK with the NHS being privatised?

Anyone who argues against the benefits of multicultural understanding and the collective drive to improve things for the whole I find completely unfathomable

There you go. It is you who has the problem. Politics is all about accepting differing opinions and constructing compelling arguments against them and if you can’t fathom that then you can’t effectively engage in the political discourse that is at the heart of democracy. Your undeniable belief that you are right and everyone else is wrong is the fundamental problem. Your opinion (and that is all it is) is no better or worse than anyone else’s. and the fact you’re willing to sacrifice relationships because of it reflects worse on you. Live and let live. accept people have different opinions than you and defend your point of view, argue to the best of our ability and accept the results and part as friends. That is all the best you can expect. In an argument where there is no right or wrong there is no winner. just differing points of view.

So to answer your question about what to do….just argue your point of view as best you can and hope you influence others. then change subject, move on, have a beer and drink to world peace.

I was going to post but wobbliscott has saved me the bother.

I’m all for old people showing their arse to their children’s earnestness (otherwise what is the point of being old?), but there is something deeply obnoxious about them voting for leave. They have no skin in the game. They would crater the economy and have their grandkids shoulder the pain, whilst they remain comfortably insulated in retirement.

That’s if you take leave as a serious proposition, which it isn’t really now. So probably your Da know’s Farage is a comedian and was just lashing a vote his way for a laugh – it’s not like he’s endorsing a serious policy.

Live and let live.

Is that Brexit Party policy?

accept people have different opinions than you and defend your point of view, argue to the best of our ability and accept the results and part as friends.

Or call them traitors and enemies of democracy. Whatever works for you.

I have plenty of family and friends that say they voted Leave, and I suspect some voted for the Brexit Party. To shun them wouldn’t improve my life one iota. It is worrying who they feel in an affinity for in politics though.

As per wobbliscott above.

I have voted for Brexit Party just like your parents with a reason of my own (see my response in the referendum thread).

I’m a fervent remainer.

I think you might haven been “radicalised” without even knowing.
Political parties or ideologies are just that and nothing more so take them too seriously at your own peril.

Anyone who argues against the benefits of multicultural understanding and the collective drive to improve things for the whole I find completely unfathomable. I simply can’t understand it. I try to understand it by thinking they are the brainwashed by rhetoric, but as these people are often my free thinking, intelligent friends, I worry more.

People are just people with their own views and identities so who is to say they are right or wrong? You can try to change their (people) views but if they do not accept then there is nothing you can do apart from trying again.

… what to do.

Nothing. Just acknowledge that we all have different views.

People do have different opinions than you

This much is true

But some people think that you shouldn’t put pineapple on a pizza!

And others think that Jews/Gays/Muslims should DIE!

And they behave as if these are ‘just’ differences of opinion.

But when you look up at the stars, they shine at different magnitudes. They are quantifiable.

“live and let live” Is that Brexit Party policy?

Yes it actually is…I think. I’m no brexiteer and no fan of the Brexit party but brexiteers are not against immigration (or so says my brexiteer father)…they just want control over our immigration policy. That is their mantra…their goal…ultimately it is upto the government of the day to set immigration policy (outside of the EU) and this is where the rub is….immigration, of all the reasons for Brexit is a red herring because our immigration ‘problems’ (In comma’s because immigration isn’t really a problem) is a problem due to immigration of non-eu countries, so leaving the EU won’t solve any perceived immigrant problems – other than those who wash our cars or fit our toilets. But I accept that brining control back into Parliament is a preferable situation for most people compared to leaving it to un-elected bureaucrats. the further away power is ceded away from individuals the greater the concern, so as more and more power is ceded away from our own parliament and given up to the EU parliament the more people are going to be concerned.It’s only natural – no-body likes to feel less powerful. At least in our UK parliament the government is held to account by the opposition….but in the European parliament who is the formal opposition? How do you hold the incumbent power to account?

And there is the fallacy that the UK government and Parliament have ceded power to Europe. It’s exactly the opposite. The UK has full control of immigration, the policy is set by the government of the day, they have full control of it. If they choose a different policy to one you agree with then it’s within your power as a voter to alter party policy.

Again the fallacy that the EU is run by unelected bureaucrats is only partly true. It’s no different to the UK’s parliament. The commons, the unelected lords and the appointed civil service. Only MPs are chosen by a twisted form of democracy.

I’m coming round to your idea of brining back control.

We should definitely all jump into a salt bath and mull it over.

“I have voted for Brexit Party just like your parents with a reason of my own (see my response in the referendum thread).”

Actually, my parents are interesting data points.

My parents aren’t Boomers, they actually lived through the war – my Mum still vividly remembers the sound of aircraft overhead as she cowered with her Mum and brother under the stairs in Manchester, and the crash as the bombs fell around them, my Dad was evacuated from Liverpool to Anglesey.

They both voted Remain – dig through the data and you’ll find that as you get to the oldies that actually lived through the war there is a noticeable uptick for Remain.

As you sift through the data you find that there are actually two voices of the ‘old’ – the true voice is not the bluster of bullshitters, the voice of experience is a voice for peace.

My Mum voted Labour in the Euros btw – i don’t think she has ever voted any other way since she started doing so in the 1950’s.

I wish my dad who I admire and modelled my life choices on, due to being a thoroughly brilliant and decent person was still alive to tell me who he voted for, I wouldn’t give a toss which box he put a cross in.

Disown them?

Its an option… 🤷‍♂️

Just how does that enable the poorest countries to grow, it allows the richest countries to take the brightest people so they grow, and the poorest countries shrink while the the richest grow.

Because it’s a two way street. Skills and wealth can freely move in both directions.

https://www.politico.eu/article/poland-transformation-economic-success/

I can’t stand Farage but your Dad had the freedom to put a cross in any box he desired for whatever reason was important or trivial to him at the time – maybe that’s something to appreciate. You now have the same freedom to debate openly with him and on here the rights and wrongs of his choice.

You now have the same freedom to debate openly with him and on here the rights and wrongs of his choice.

Except that some choices have real consequences. The consequence of voting for Brexit may be that my wife no longer has the right to stay here in the UK, and so we have to move to some other country that will have us both, or become a “Skype family”. My parents voted Remain. If they’d voted Leave I don’t think “just getting on with it” would have been among my reactions.

My dad was a strong Thatcher supporter in the 80’s when I was at my most left wing stage. We had debates about it but it made no difference to our relationship. He was still one of the kindest and most community/neighbourhood focused people I have ever known.
I saw him as misled/confused by supporting what Thatcher was doing but he had his reasons and didn’t like what Labour were doing before Thatcher.

If he was alive for the referendum it wouldn’t have surprised me if he voted for Brexit. My sister and brother in law both did.

17 million people voted Brexit, some of them are bound to be friends or relatives.

As we take all the nurses from Poland and Spain what does that actually do for these countries?

Just how does that enable the poorest countries to grow, it allows the richest countries to take the brightest people so they grow, and the poorest countries shrink while the the richest grow

Except the poorest nations in Europe have grown. Are you proposing that leavi g the EU is a selfess act to help the poorer countries and that jumping into massive economic uncertainty is a good thing? Please don’t go along with the it will be all right gang. It makes no sense. The question should not be are there issues with the EU but does leaving the EU solve more problems than it creates if indeed it actually solves any real problems rather than those that have been fabricated or massively inflated.

To get back to the OP the way forward is to try and understand each other better and be able to discuss this without it becoming polarised. The polarization into leave/remain, right/left right/wrong has meant that everything has become an argument and not a discussion. Our political leaders, with very few exceptions, constantly argue, use falsehoods and half truths. To accede an opposing view has merit and that they could work together never happens in public. That role model does not work in real life where we all can hold contrary opinions and can be right and wrong at the same time! We need to relearn how to talk to each other and work out a way of coming together.

The only real advice is to take a deep breath and find out you can talk to each other without it ending up in an argument. Then you can tell the rest of us the secret 😉

I stopped giving a bollocks some time ago.. **** em!

these people are often my free thinking, intelligent friends

They’re clearly not free thinking, or intelligent, as they’re wrong.

Only people with the right opinion can be described as intelligent, shirley.

As the 1st reply suggested; you just need to stop your dramatics … maybe visit your GP for a referral to see someone regarding your EUPD impacting on your life too.

You obviously got significant difficulties regulating your emotions if you feel you’ve lost your family over this!

My parents and one of my brothers voted leave (brother then had the nerve to get himself an Irish passport as he works around Europe….). We have “debated” it once and agreed to never again as there is a very real risk it would cause a lasting division.
I very much suspect that they voted for Farage, I’m not going to ask but I do think a bit less of them. I know I shouldn’t but I can’t help it. To be honest I suspect my Dad is also a bit of a Trump fan, too. He was a Doctor as well, such an intelligent, educated man. It makes me sad if I dwell on it too much.

my former card carrying Labour member dad –

Perhaps he hasn’t changed and has instead remained true to what he believed in.

In 1983 the Labour Party WAS the Brexit Party. There was of course no UKIP in those days. The 1983 Labour Party election manifesto had a firm commitment to leave the European Community. If you wanted to leave the ECC you voted Labour, it was as simple as that.

Of course in those days the fanatical Europhiles hadn’t managed to get away with calling all opposition to the European Community racist. In fact no attempt was made.

Without a right-wing UKIP on the scene calling Michael Foot and the Labour Party racist for wanting to leave Europe would have been simply too absurd.

Especially as throughout the 1983 Labour Party manifesto there were constant references to the protection and rights of ethic minorities.

Which constrasted sharply with Margaret Thatcher, a fervent remainer, and her attacks on immigrants with claims that Britons didn’t want to be, quote, “swamped”.

farage is a ****, he doesn’t have any policies beyond populist right wing noise. if you voted for him then you need to understand that you are aligning yourself with that.

There’s a few things that you justify falling out with family over, politics shouldn’t be one of them.

I’m a remainer, and can’t compute why people think we’re better off to leave but they have their reasons. Just like some people don’t get 29ers.

To get back to the OP the way forward is to try and understand each other better and be able to discuss this without it becoming polarised. The polarization into leave/remain, right/left right/wrong has meant that everything has become an argument and not a discussion. Our political leaders, with very few exceptions, constantly argue, use falsehoods and half truths. To accede an opposing view has merit and that they could work together never happens in public. That role model does not work in real life where we all can hold contrary opinions and can be right and wrong at the same time! We need to relearn how to talk to each other and work out a way of coming together.

The only real advice is to take a deep breath and find out you can talk to each other without it ending up in an argument.

^^^This. I don’t know if it’s the internet, other media or something else, but as a society we seem to have lost the ability to see nuance, listen effectively and consider alternative views, instead it’s all polarisation, name calling and shouting each other down. That’s on both “sides”.

Everyone needs to calm down a bit, stop getting emotionally hooked & overreacting and go back to the classic “listen twice, speak once”.

The OP is ridiculous.

You seem to want to disown your family because they don’t want the UK to remain in a Right Wing Trade Organisation? A system that has been created to create wealth for big business? All because he thinks it means that deep down they don’t like brown people?

Why do think Thatcher wanted to be part of the EU? For benefit of the ordinary people?

FFS. This place. Absolute echochamber.

A few months ago I was called a racist on here for highlighting the fact that Poland has significantly lower animal welfare standards than the UK.

You seem to want to disown your family because they don’t want the UK to remain in a Right Wing Trade Organisation?

FFS. This place. Absolute echochamber.

Indeed it is.

Indeed it is.

If I could be arsed I would highlight my responses on numerous occasions, where I have stated what the EU is.

If I could be arsed I would highlight my responses on numerous occasions, where I have stated what the EU is.

There’s a very long thread for that, off you pop.

I have stated my opinion on what the EU is

Fixed…

FFS. This place. Absolute echochamber.

A few months ago I was called a racist on here for highlighting the fact that Poland has significantly lower animal welfare standards than the UK.

I’m an ardent remainer and have been called an appeaser and far right sympathiser! I’m sure we furiously disagree with eachother on brexit, but on this you are right.

Pook, have you actually asked your dad why he voted for Farage? I know a few who voted for him, not because they are racist or right wing nutjobs, but for the simple fact that at this point in time he is the most convenient and impactful protest vote. People are sick of not being listened to. As long as this continues, snake oil salesmen like Farage and Boris will benefit.