Hmm. We just had change, didn’t work so well.

+1 collective guilt was good enough for the Germans, I don’t see why it’s not good enough for the brexiteers

You’re now equating Brexit with the 3rd Reich? You’ve lost the plot entirely.

Following it up with the desire to punish a large group of people for their thought crimes. Yet somehow you see others as wannabe fascists.

Following it up with the desire to punish a large group of people for their thought crimes. Yet somehow you see others as wannabe fascists.

The same people have a tendency of using the fascism card to shut down criticism of their racism – so I have no problem tarring them with the fascism brush in kind.

Yes far right EDL nutters might use that. Your shitey flawed logic is

EDL like brexit. Lots of people liked Brexit. Therefore lots of people like the EDL.
AND

EDL are scum. Hating scum is ok. Therefore it’s ok to hate everyone who voted for brexit.

Away you go Iran, with your powers of logic you’ll be in the IRGC within the year.

The defensiveness of the Brexiteer is immense. No-one’s making the links you’re implying – we’re just saying leave voters are not immune from criticism.

I’m not a Brexiteer, if you knew my family circumstances you’d understand.

I’m anti idiot.

Sound, then don’t accuse people of making links they’re not making.

How does everyone think this new thread is working out, BTW? 🙂

Pondo, rayban is definitely making those links, he has form (and who is we?)

Ray-Ban is spouting hate and you say ‘we’ to support him but quickly call Tomd a brexiteer to undermine his anti hate view. Get a grip. Jeez

@Pondo as above I was replying to Rayban who very much was making those links, which are disgraceful.

It’s not disgraceful if it’s true.

We fully realise the enormity of what we say when we state that over 70% of the UK population is prejudiced. ‘Surely not’, ‘not me’, ‘we are a tolerant society’ are all natural responses; but let us look back at what we have considered as prejudice. Only one of our four subtypes can be considered to be not prejudiced (Egalitarians), either consciously or subconsciously; however, only one of our four subtype groups would consciously consider themselves to be prejudiced, the Modern Racists. Aversive Racists would not want to be prejudiced and may discriminate inadvertently or may explain it away to themselves as avoiding discomfort. Principled Conservatives are not likely to consider themselves to be prejudiced, as they are merely insisting that people are treated according to their own abilities and what they have earned in society. However, each of these three subtypes can impact negatively upon outgroups in their own way. If we return to our widely supported definition of prejudice, each of the three groups in their own way are made up of individuals with attitudes towards groups and/or their members which either create or maintain the hierarchical relations between groups, as defined originally by Dovidio et al. (2013). We must move away from the idea of prejudice and discrimination as being hot, direct, in your face racism. No doubt this still exists but it is joined by a more ambiguous ‘life would be so much nicer without all these foreigners around’, ‘they’re getting more than me, it’s not fair’, ‘I don’t feel comfortable with people who aren’t like me’ othering. It all adds up.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41599-018-0214-5

@Pondo as above I was replying to Rayban who very much was making those links, which are disgraceful.

Maybe I’ve missed a post or we just have a different take or something, but as I said earlier (to Molgrips, I think), even if the majority of leavers didn’t vote explicitly for racism/anti-immigration/bleed the freak/whatever, their actions have certainly enabled the racist **** who becoming increasingly enboldened.

Ray-Ban is spouting hate and you say ‘we’ to support him but quickly call Tomd a brexiteer to undermine his anti hate view. Get a grip. Jeez

Your take is that he is spouting hate and I support him, I don’t think you have a clue what you’re on about.

so I have no problem tarring them with the fascism brush in kind.

If you really believe that then you are absolutely no better than they are. You’re just an angry person spouting hate at people you don’t like.

Don’t bother slinging insults my way in petty retaliation. It’s pointless. Apologise or shut up.

Rayban – did reading that not set off an alarm bells that perhaps you had fabricated an out group to hate upon?

We fully realise the enormity of what we say when we state that over 70% of the UK population is prejudiced. ‘

Everyone is prejudiced. The difference between people is how you react to that little primal voice that pipes up when you see a brown person behaving differently, hear another language being used loudly and obnoxiously, see gay people making irritating PDAs or whatever triggers it. Do you go along with it and try to justify that negativity; or do you make yourself stop and think if you’re doing the right thing?

Rayban – did reading that not set off an alarm bells that perhaps you had fabricated an out group to hate upon?

Not really, it reinforced my belief that engaging these people constructively is a waste of effort and it’s now time to look out for your own in-group and self interest and the detriment of theirs. If these people end up as managers etc, it is my children that will suffer prejudice from them.

Everyone is prejudiced. The difference between people is how you react to that little primal voice that pipes

And brexiteers were not able to control that part of their primeval brain – were they?

The gift that keeps on giving

Brexiters. "Don't tell us we don't know what we were voting for!"😡

Us: "Ok what were you voting for?" ❓

Brexiters "We don't know" 🤷‍♂️#Brexit #BrexitBritain #BrexitReality
1/2 pic.twitter.com/xanhKTs7Om

— Tim Altmann #FBPE 🇪🇺🇬🇧 (@altmann_tim) February 2, 2020

reinforced my belief

The first true thing you’ve said. See – you do have loads in common with Brexiteers.

Dodgy beliefs continuously reinforced by your biases leading to bold assertions with the substance of an ill shit.

How is it controversial to say that if you are not a racist yet you find yourself on the side of a divide where all the racists are, that you should be questioning your stance?

If in doubt, look who you are sharing a viewpoint with.

And brexiteers were not able to control that part of their primeval brain – were they?

May I suggest you stop there. Blaming all who voted Brexit for a few racists is completely out of order. If you want to spout such rubbish go to a different forum.

And brexiteers were not able to control that part of their primeval brain – were they?

Oh look, where have I heard people making the claim that others from a different group have their brains wired differently.

Oh yes, it was the advocates of apartheid.

If your assertion is true then you’ll have a hard time arguing against racism in general.

Wow – what a nasty bunch you are.

The original Loony thread showed the odd glimpse of reason and intellect (Inkster contribution) .. but this thread is full of hate preaching nastiness.

You can keep it to yourselves; I shall not be wasting my time reading it again.

You can keep it to yourselves; I shall not be wasting my time reading it again.

Do you think there’ll ever be a time where you say that and mean it?

Pondo, it’s not exactly a robust defense but I’m happy to bite.

Ray-Ban on page 4 quote

**** unity.

Make as many brexiteers lives as shit as you possibly can – by the way you vote and by the way you interact with them on a daily basis. Make sure they lose as much opportunity as possible so they do not hold positions of power. Remainers tend to be better educated and hold better jobs with more influence – that can be weaponized.

He has continued on this theme and has form for this type of rant but you are happy to buddy up with your ‘we’ while trying to undermine (falsely) another forum member calling his shit out.

Take a break from the forum if it’s a difficult time for rational conversation for you.

He has continued on this theme and has form for this type of rant but you are happy to buddy up with your ‘we’ while trying to undermine (falsely) another forum member calling his shit out.

Take a break from the forum if it’s a difficult time for rational conversation for you.

You’re damn right (congratulations! First time on this thread) that it’s not a “robust defense”. If you can make one up, let me know.

It’s hardly surprising that there’s a lot of ill feeling on this thread. The enormity of the backwards direction this island has taken has been brought into even more sharp relief by the news bombardment regarding Brexit Day celebrations. Rightly or wrongly folk currently feel the need to kick back at this. I’m sure it’ll settle down again.

And it’s hardly a surprise that folk are blaming the uneducated and racist when any attempt to ascertain exactly why else folk voted Leave is met by nonsense (those TV clips) or silence (some forum members).

All that sounds like to me is a good reason to avoid the news. I live in Brexitland on Sea and I did not see one party, firework or any other indication that Brexit happened. Took the kids to the library, swimming and town on B-Day and not one mention of it. Folk said hello and chatted, it was nice even though the kids are a bit foreign.

If you’re an editor for BBC news, what clip are you going to put on? The hilarious nutter or the guy that just kind says “Meh, let’s see”.

Ahh looks like a good start

Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab has accused the EU of “shifting the goalposts” and threatening to undermine Brexit with its demands that the UK follow EU rules as part of a Canada-style free trade deal after 2021.

May I suggest you stop there. Blaming all who voted Brexit for a few racists is completely out of order. If you want to spout such rubbish go to a different forum..

Can we only assume that a political movement is inherently racist if they wave swastikas at rallies whilst shouting at immigrants passing by?

@ tomd

Lucky you don’t work for the NHS then cos plenty of my non white colleagues got Brexit Eve abuse.

This ^

How can anyone seriously suggest that it wasn’t obvious before the referendum that all the racists were pro-Brexit?

Something happened in Batley which highlighted this in big bold letters, anyone remember?

Or a white care worker colleague who was asked where he was from.

‘Finland’ he says.

‘So when are you going back?’

People voted to remove the rights of me and my kin, so they could either chase some dream of our government not having to compromise with people of other countries, or to keep foreigners out. If they get upset when someone angrily lashes out at them, perhaps over simplistically or wrongly, calling them nationalist, or xenophobic, little Englanders, or racist, or fascist, or selfish… I’ll often be sympathetic to their complaint… but I can see that sympathy running out. They won, they’d best learn to take the hitting up and hitting out… I fear there is a lot more of it to come.

Lucky you don’t work for the NHS then cos plenty of my non white colleagues got Brexit Eve abuse.

I never get these people, when I’m in hospital last thing on my mind is your colour or where your from ,I’m just happy being patched up.

I take a dim view of people abusing the people fixing me 🙁

Ill feeling about the complexity of brexit or the rise in hate is no excuse for the bigotry and hate posted by some on the current political threads. Emboldening bigotry and hate by allowing, supporting and agreeing with it regardless of which side spouts it seems a little ironic considering the conversation.

It is not okay and completely against the forum ethos. Respect and understanding is needed now more than ever. Education is key.

Lots of people mentioned Brexit in unseasonally warm SW France today. The atmosphere was jovial humourous, jokey… it isn’t lost on Johnny foreigner that following the trade negotiations from this side of the channel is going to be highly entertaining. The curious thing is that I’ve had more people ask me what nationality/ies I am in the last week than ever. As if they were making sure that I wouldn’t be offended before having a laugh. I’ve known one guy for 15 years and today was the first time he felt the need to ask.

I/we heard it expressed in many different ways but they all could be translated as “silly buggers”.

Respect and understanding

“Respect” is earned. I understand the motives, that means there’s no chance I’m gong to be “understanding”.

Ill feeling about the complexity of brexit or the rise in hate is no excuse for the bigotry and hate posted by some on the current political threads. Emboldening bigotry and hate by allowing, supporting and agreeing with it regardless of which side spouts it seems a little ironic considering the conversation.

How did respect and appeasement of the opposite side work out for Hindenburg in 1933?

It didn’t – it ended up with the civilized liberals being murdered or being placed in camps.

Ill feeling about the complexity of brexit or the rise in hate is no excuse for the bigotry and hate posted by some on the current political threads. Emboldening bigotry and hate by allowing, supporting and agreeing with it regardless of which side spouts it seems a little ironic considering the conversation.

It is not okay and completely against the forum ethos. Respect and understanding is needed now more than ever. Education is key.

Well, I’ll tell you what, there’s a tower block in Norwich you could do much good at, likewise an Italian broadcaster in London would appreciate your support. I’ve conciliated for best part of four years and had nothing back but “we won, you lost”, “soak up your snowflake leftie remoaner tears” etc, so forgive me if I don’t subscribe to your view that I still have to defer to these morons, they clearly don’t give a **** what I think.

Ill feeling about the complexity of brexit or the rise in hate is no excuse for the bigotry and hate posted by some on the current political threads. Emboldening bigotry and hate by allowing, supporting and agreeing with it regardless of which side spouts it seems a little ironic considering the conversation.

Some of the more out of order stuff I agree with you on.

It is not okay and completely against the forum ethos. Respect and understanding is needed now more than ever. Education is key.

When have any Brexiteers given a reason for wanting Brexit that is respectable? The reasons fall into two broad categories. Firstly ones that are just outright xenophobia, racism or nationalism. No respect due there. The other category is those that try to have a basis in fact that is then debunked in about thirty seconds flat. Please tell me how I can respect a decision to turn this country upside down when the people who want it cannot give a single, coherent, good reason for doing it. Three and a half years and still not one. Respect has to be earned.

Understanding? Tricky given the above. I would understand if people were contrite, which many Leave voters now are. I do think a lot of people were trying to register an anti status quo vote and now regret it. But people also just voted a proven liar in as PM on a pretty much Brexit-only ticket, so perhaps there wasn’t enough regret.

Anyway, I’ll pose the question again. How could anyone be in any doubt that all of the far right were pro-Brexit, especially after the murder of Jo Cox?

Shouldn’t that have resonated somehow?